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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition

I am beyond uninterested in putting off our job in favor of further increasing our already-substantial combat capabilities, especially when it's liable to take multiple AP worth of work to do. Branarhune at least has the excuse of being the culmination of an already-existing central thread of our build (and besides there's no viable plan that doesn't include it so the point is moot).
 
Tasoli said:
I would belive you guys about having more important things than apparations if second plan was not mapping action of all thing. Branarhune doesn't even finish in that plan.

I mean i did approval vote for sword plan that makes some sense but other one just rings hollow.
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So we're using a WEB-MAT action for Apparitions, but it's sounding like it's going to be a long term commitment over several turns. We already have several of those, and I'm not comfortable keeping an apparition locked up in our lab until we're ready to deal with it—which could be quite a while away. Mapping, meanwhile, is a quick and easy action that identifies vulnerabilities in the waystone network in one of the two places it exits the Old World to travel to Ulthuan. Branarhune can't be completed as a WEB-MAT action, so it's not competing for space against the Mapping action, and honestly, I was just looking for something that Johann can do to pad out the plan without starting another multi-turn research project.

If you can think of something else to use our free web-mat action on that isn't mapping or apparitions, and won't add further commitments next turn, then I'm all ears and willing to edit my vote.
 
Sa'kage said:
Assuming we finish swording this turn or the next
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There is no finishing swording. Only the next step on the infinite path of swords.

Thus the sword faction's refrain:
The sword is a practical skill that keeps us alive. (Do you want to die?)
Let's go on an adventure. Learning the sword counts as preparation.
We're going on an adventure. Better swording keeps us alive.
The adventure has begun. Our marks maybe messing with our stealth but our sword will keep us alive.
We're back from the adventure. Look at those shiny new sword based insights we've gained.
It has been ages since we last trained sword let's complete the next stage, then we'll be done.
The sword is a practical skill that keeps us alive.
 
I feel like it would bring a bit of perspective to remember that for the last apparition Mathilde captured, the capture method worked indefinitely (even disregarding the crazy die result). She accomplished that with vastly less experience, resources, and ability than she currently has, while dealing with one that was the direct counter to her wind. Now are we guaranteed to get as good a method this time around? Of course not, but the tone of the conversation that this will definitely be some ticking time bomb that Mathilde will have constantly be on top of really strikes me as not the likely average use case based on what we know.
 
>.>
<.<
Personally, I'm just really happy to see Mathymancer include the Lustrian Rubbings as an artifact of research the after I argued for it way back when, despite my not being active for this current round of discussion.

I'd say that I feel like there's a mild-but-respectable chance a look at the Lustrian Rubbings synergizes with the Capstone action... but it doesn't really sway anything since its in both of the current top contenders anyways.

[/justhappytobehere]
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
If you can think of something else to use our free web-mat action on that isn't mapping or apparitions, and won't add further commitments next turn, then I'm all ears and willing to edit my vote.
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Study Kurgan shrine. With Chaos on the way it makes sense to know more about them.

And this guy has no chill when examining possibly divine artifact. He has been doing that already.
 
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition

Could we shake someone else loose for the mapping? Having only Mathilde and Johann feels a bit boring. Like, Aksel isn't used anywhere and while that isn't an issue he could have a great talent for these mapping task for all we know. The possible downside would be annoying him slightly if he dislikes the task and that is kinda not an issue either.
For the two southern nations I could totally imagine a bunch of secret cults at the relevant spots which Aksel as the leader of another could help notice and sweettalk.
 
CeBrudras said:
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition

Could we shake someone else loose for the mapping? Having only Mathilde and Johann feels a bit boring. Like, Aksel isn't used anywhere and while that isn't an issue he could have a great talent for these mapping task for all we know. The possible downside would be annoying him slightly if he dislikes the task and that is kinda not an issue either.
For the two southern nations I could totally imagine a bunch of secret cults at the relevant spots which Aksel as the leader of another could help notice and sweettalk.
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The mapping is inherently boring and there are no Hedgewise in the south so Askel would ave nothing to offer, even if there are secret cults they aren't ones he's familiar with. Hell like the rest of us he literally cannot speak the language. We are not going to discover any deep lore about Tilea though an interpreter from the back of a whirring gyrocopter.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
I feel like it would bring a bit of perspective to remember that for the last apparition Mathilde captured, the capture method worked indefinitely (even disregarding the crazy die result). She accomplished that with vastly less experience, resources, and ability than she currently has, while dealing with one that was the direct counter to her wind. Now are we guaranteed to get as good a method this time around? Of course not, but the tone of the conversation that this will definitely be some ticking time bomb that Mathilde will have constantly be on top of really strikes me as not the likely average use case based on what we know.
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On the other hand I'd argue that what we got with the snake was a very lucky best-case scenario of "someone has already developed and documented a nonmagical containment method." Which, from an out-of-universe perspective, was probably at least in part because of the intended balance point for "how bad should this disadvantage selected at character creation be" (of course, due to hilariously bad luck on the part of the snake, the answer ended up rather undershooting the target and landing at "not at all" but that's dice for ya).

Not to mention that if the snake had rolled a pure "alive" result, there's every chance that it would've been able to escape confinement. We only know that it was contained indefinitely in the specific scenario we ended up with (and can presume the same would've been true if it had just died, though a similar result here would render our target rather less than useful for its intended purpose).
CeBrudras said:
Like, Aksel isn't used anywhere
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Oh yeah, that reminds me - @Deathbybunnies I'd be interested in your thoughts on adding Aksel to the Capstone action in your plan, per the below:
picklepikkl said:
One thing I will note is that @Nerdasaurus Rex made an argument that Aksel might fit in well with the Capstone action due to the Hedgewise guarding the Waystones from the time of Sigmar and having lore about them. I thought it was reasonable, but I'm not the planmaker here and I'm not going to unilaterally modify someone else's plan. If mathymancer and/or Deathbybunnies find Nerdasaurus's argument convincing, I will modify these plans to include Aksel so that we don't need to split off a variant and make the vote even more chaotic than it usually is.
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Apologies if you've already addressed this & I just missed it.
 
DragonParadox said:
The mapping is inherently boring and there are no Hedgewise in the south so Askel would ave nothing to offer, even if there are secret cults they aren't ones he's familiar with. Hell like the rest of us he literally cannot speak the language. We are not going to discover any deep lore about Tilea though an interpreter from the back of a whirring gyrocopter.
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Boring to you.

I'm not even sure I want to map this turn, haven't been able to make my mind up, but I couldn't disagree with this statement more, The mapping segments have been very interesting.

They also provide vital information on places that need to be defended at all costs and reveal things like the Nexus making Reikland more fertile and its' woods tamer.
 
I'm looking for a plan that includes;

[ ] Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library. (Tower of Hoeth)

Because I am very funny and this should be taken very seriously.

Wiggy said:
Wonder what kind of boon it would take to get dwarves to help the empire start reproducing steam tanks? Presumably that'd be engineers, not metalsmiths.
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I seem to recall that (before we transitioned away from Dwarf Favor) Boney said something to the effect of 'they would look at a Steam Tank the Emperor forwarded to them and tell the Imperial engineers what they needed to do to make more of what they took a peek at' with the caveat of them probably going 'step sixteen; buy the Steam Engine from the Engineering Guild, attach to imputs 1, 4 & 7, do not look at Steam Engine'.

I'm half-tempted to suggest seeing if we could perhaps launder Runesmith Favor via AV into 'but Engineering Favor tho' but I strongly suspect the answer would be a tired 'this will not work' from Boney and I don't want to annoy them. Maybe see if either a) money or b) side quest for some Dwarfs would be worth having a Master Engineer take a peek at one of the Steam Tanks for us?

Alternately just pull a 'Mathilde is a cat' moment, scout out Thunder Mountain and drop off a report on conditions there to some Thane in Zhufbar or something. Probably not the best way to go about it, but we know enough people in Zhufbar by now that we could probably ask around.

Sinsystems said:
You know it is funny that with Rite of Way and the future Red Rider spell, plus the shadow steed spell that already exists, we are making Grey Wizards very appealing as attachments to elite Cavalry units.
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But of course. Dame Mathilde is a knight, after all. Has a coat of arms and everything!
Derpmind said:
2.With the Rider in Red, our fellow WEB-MAT member, we're going to hunt and capture a Johann. :V
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Probably best to get Panoramia's permission first.
 
DragonParadox said:
The mapping is inherently boring and there are no Hedgewise in the south so Askel would ave nothing to offer, even if there are secret cults they aren't ones he's familiar with. Hell like the rest of us he literally cannot speak the language. We are not going to discover any deep lore about Tilea though an interpreter from the back of a whirring gyrocopter.
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Them not being Hedgewise doesn't need to matter. Situations do not need to be an exact match for skills to be transferable. With rural cults he could spot signs of stuff being more than just village quirks than the two urban dwellers would miss. With urban cults he could apply being far more tantalizingly mysterious rather than the pedestrian northern magisters.

And if it doesn't work we will still learn more about him at, again, the cost of risking slight annoyance. Mathilde+Johann+Mapping just feels so safe that adding some spice can't really mess it up. Keeping him at home seems unnecessarily conservative.
 
NavySeel said:
Boring to you.

I'm not even sure I want to map this turn, haven't been able to make my mind up, but I couldn't disagree with this statement more, The mapping segments have been very interesting.

They also provide vital information on places that need to be defended at all costs and reveal things like the Nexus making Reikland more fertile and its' woods tamer.
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For me one mapping segment has been interesting, the one where we found the Reikland Nexus which has been foreshadowed the rest were, for all the skilled writing, not that interesting.

Chlof said:

I feel like determining whether or not that entire branch of the network is feeding into Skavenblight can't really be described as boring.
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Well if it it it's been doing so for several millennia and known to at least the Asur, not what I would call breaking news.

CeBrudras said:
Them not being Hedgewise doesn't need to matter. Situations do not need to be an exact match for skills to be transferable. With rural cults he could spot signs of stuff being more than just village quirks than the two urban dwellers would miss. With urban cults he could apply being far more tantalizingly mysterious rather than the pedestrian northern magisters.

And if it doesn't work we will still learn more about him at, again, the cost of risking slight annoyance. Mathilde+Johann+Mapping just feels so safe that adding some spice can't really mess it up. Keeping him at home seems unnecessarily conservative.
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So being a foreigner from the woods who does not speak the language. People are a lot more parochial and insular in this world than in our modern world, it would be a rare Tilean that sees Askel as 'mysterious' rather than a hick.
 
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Wiadi said:
Oh yeah, that reminds me - @Deathbybunnies I'd be interested in your thoughts on adding Aksel to the Capstone action in your plan, per the below:

Apologies if you've already addressed this & I just missed it.
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I think I missed that. I lack strong feelings on the subject; whilst the Hedgewise have been stewarding the Waystones for a long time, I'm not sure what lore they'd be likely to have about making the capstone metal in particular.

I'm painfully aware that we've been told repeatedly that we'll get better results by not including extraneous people in investigations, so that those who do know something are more likely to share. But on the other hand, the opening action is arguably a good time to get an idea of whether they know anything at all?

I'm ambivalent; if a bunch of people want the change, I don't mind making it. (Or having pickl make it at their convenience.)
 
I do feel people are throwing too much weight onto the "must do it next turn too" train. We are doing it as a webmat action currently and i don't see a reason why binding one couldn't also be done as webmat. I feel Johann would have no problem being our wingman and taking notes for when he wants to gain demonic doggos.
 
I wish more people that were anti apparition were approval voting the sword plan. As much as I'm interested in apparitions I'd feel a lot better about putting it off if that involved finishing swords and doing a more major waystone action than network mapping.
 
[X] Plan Codifying and Swords
I like the focused effort on swords. I think the best way to deal with our backlogs of items to do is to actually finish them as opposed to starting on multiple ones.

Edit: approval voting: because if we can't decrease the amount of active projects on the go, lets at the very least not add to it.
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition
 
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Tobtorp said:
I do feel people are throwing too much weight onto the "must do it next turn too" train. We are doing it as a webmat action currently and i don't see a reason why binding one couldn't also be done as webmat. I feel Johann would have no problem being our wingman and taking notes for when he wants to gain demonic doggos.
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I would be shocked if binding were possible as a WEB-MAT action; going out and beating up an Apparition is a buddy-buddy adventure where two of us can go hunting for stuff as a team, but binding is "Mathilde sits in her lab and tries to figure out how to bind these things with Ulgu when the only examples she has of how to do it use Chamon, which works completely differently." What exactly does Johann do there? He's not an Ulgu user and he isn't a magical theorist. He doesn't even have Gehenna's Golden Hounds himself that he can use as a model for Mathilde to study.

That said, if it were WEB-MAT, I would be significantly more relaxed about the possibility that we might have to do it next turn.
 
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I just want to say again that I think apparitions are COOL AS FUCK and absolutely want to go for them. I just really don't want to commit to a new project right now.

I am very firmly of the opinion that finishing existing projects should take priority over starting new ones.
 
Slamu said:
Alternately just pull a 'Mathilde is a cat' moment, scout out Thunder Mountain and drop off a report on conditions there to some Thane in Zhufbar or something. Probably not the best way to go about it, but we know enough people in Zhufbar by now that we could probably ask around.
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If we want a Zhufbar boon, the best option would be something involving Zhufbar's sister-hold Karak Varn, also known as Cragmere.

Unfortunately, while Mathilde's skills are considerable, I don't see any Gordian knot for her to cut there- Varn is full of Skaven of course, but it's primary difficulty is that it's half-flooded and the water is full of loose Warpstone.
 
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I have two main reasons I don't like the apparitions plan. The first is that it drops to 2 Waystone Project actions, and whilst noises have been made about the patience of Elves 1) There's a bunch of humans on this project too now, and 2) it's still not a great look to not be putting much time into it?

The second reason is that I very strongly believe that in the long run, almost everyone in the thread would be happier if we committed to finishing off old projects over starting new ones. No matter what project you happen to be interested in, assuming you don't actually think you'll get it completely finished before the ongoing projects are finished: in the long run you'll get it finished just as quickly if you start it later and it gets done every turn until completion, compared to starting earlier and having to alternate between other ongoing projects. And in the meantime, projects finishing more quickly from their start point means seeing the rewards of those projects much more quickly, preventing people from getting "bored" of seeing an ongoing project, even if it hasn't really had much screen time.

That's a coordination problem I don't really expect to see solved, but it's one I generally try to keep in mind when voting.
 
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