Springtime of Nations II: A European Republic Quest

[X] The Radical Party
-[x] A Radical Tomorrow, Together with Socialists
--[x] Assist Spain & Italy in military-industrial build-up in preparation for our showdown against the Imperial League.
--[x] Incorporate radicals and Jacobins into the International Worker's Association to the socialist one. Create a sub-branch called the Volunteers for Liberty group which will coordinate revolutionary volunteers for foreign conflicts.
--[x] Consolidate our "Alpine Academy" as a foreign intelligence service to begin establishing networks in the Imperial League. The networks should support radical and revolutionary movements and prepare to impede the Imperial war effort, and if feasible, prepare uprisings.
--[x] Continue both naval expansion for Baltic supremacy & the reforms of the Leutewehr in line with the Civil War Report.
--[x] Establish the Academy of Advanced Sciences and Engineering to begin an investigation into new forms of technology, such as Benz's internal combustion engine and the development of new medicines.
--[x] Organize intercultural committees with Spain and Italy to have regular exchanges between our peoples to celebrate our common struggles against monarchism.

[X] The Cooperative Party
-[X] Plan Cooperativism is Local Control Plus Electrification of the Whole Country
--[X] Organize local planning hubs as equal partners to the republic wide planning commission, tasked with short loop answers to local demand.
--[X] Invest in a country wide electrification drive, with the ultimate goal to reach every community in time.
--[X] Send human and financial assistance to Spain and Italy to help them build up their worker and farmer owned economies.
--[X] Connect with underground rebellious elements in our imperial league neighbours to organize revolutionary defeatist networks ready to sabotage the empires' war effort when liberation comes for them.
--[X] Set up non-territorial councils and communication hubs so that people of particular languages and culture groups can discuss matters relevant to them as such.
--[X] Compulsory Education shall include a course including outdoors survival, navigation and firearm operation.

[X] The Cooperative Party
-[X] Plan Cooperativism is Local Control Plus Electrification of the Whole Country
--[X] Organize local planning hubs as equal partners to the republic wide planning commission, tasked with short loop answers to local demand.
--[X] Invest in a country wide electrification drive, with the ultimate goal to reach every community in time.
--[X] Send human and financial assistance to Spain and Italy to help them build up their worker and farmer owned economies.
--[X] Connect with underground rebellious elements in our imperial league neighbours to organize revolutionary defeatist networks ready to sabotage the empires' war effort when liberation comes for them.
--[X] Set up non-territorial councils and communication hubs so that people of particular languages and culture groups can discuss matters relevant to them as such.
--[X] Compulsory Education shall include a course including outdoors survival, navigation and firearm operation.

[X] Social Democratic Party
-[X] Socialism on the Seven Seas
--[X] Create a streamlined framework for issuing and trading of bonds by local governments, banks and commercial enterprises. Bonds will only be nominally taxed to encourage their use.
--[X] Pursue an expansion and modernization of the Marinewehr. It is shameful that our navy is not up to the standard of the Landwehr.
--[X] Expand and modernize the healthcare system to accomodate the rapidly growing population.
--[X] Try and create a friendship treaty with Japan
--[X] Use the foreign development bank to specifically target Italy, Spain and Japan (if they accept the friendship treaty) with loans and investments.
--[X] Establish numerous dedicated engineering colleges and institutes to slowly build up the expertise necessary for continued expansion of the economy. The curriculum will include mandatory classes on military engineering.
--[X] Send German Landwehr advisors to Italy and Japan to help them establish militaries of the same quality as Germany. Japan's advisors go on the condition that they accept the friendship treaty.

[X] The Cooperative Party
-[X] Plan Cooperativism is Local Control Plus Electrification of the Whole Country
--[X] Organize local planning hubs as equal partners to the republic wide planning commission, tasked with short loop answers to local demand.
--[X] Invest in a country wide electrification drive, with the ultimate goal to reach every community in time.
--[X] Send human and financial assistance to Spain and Italy to help them build up their worker and farmer owned economies.
--[X] Connect with underground rebellious elements in our imperial league neighbours to organize revolutionary defeatist networks ready to sabotage the empires' war effort when liberation comes for them.
--[X] Set up non-territorial councils and communication hubs so that people of particular languages and culture groups can discuss matters relevant to them as such.
--[X] Compulsory Education shall include a course including outdoors survival, navigation and firearm operation.

[X] The Cooperative Party
-[X] Plan Cooperativism is Local Control Plus Electrification of the Whole Country
--[X] Organize local planning hubs as equal partners to the republic wide planning commission, tasked with short loop answers to local demand.
--[X] Invest in a country wide electrification drive, with the ultimate goal to reach every community in time.
--[X] Send human and financial assistance to Spain and Italy to help them build up their worker and farmer owned economies.
--[X] Connect with underground rebellious elements in our imperial league neighbours to organize revolutionary defeatist networks ready to sabotage the empires' war effort when liberation comes for them.
--[X] Set up non-territorial councils and communication hubs so that people of particular languages and culture groups can discuss matters relevant to them as such.
--[X] Compulsory Education shall include a course including outdoors survival, navigation and firearm operation.

[X] Godwinson

[X] The Radical Party
-[X] A Radical Tomorrow, Together with Socialists
--[X] Assist Spain & Italy in military-industrial build-up in preparation for our showdown against the Imperial League.
--[X] Incorporate radicals and Jacobins into the International Worker's Association to the socialist one. Create a sub-branch called the Volunteers for Liberty group which will coordinate revolutionary volunteers for foreign conflicts.
--[X] Consolidate our "Alpine Academy" as a foreign intelligence service to begin establishing networks in the Imperial League. The networks should support radical and revolutionary movements and prepare to impede the Imperial war effort, and if feasible, prepare uprisings.
--[X] Continue both naval expansion for Baltic supremacy & the reforms of the Leutewehr in line with the Civil War Report.
--[X] Establish the Academy of Advanced Sciences and Engineering to begin an investigation into new forms of technology, such as Benz's internal combustion engine and the development of new medicines.
--[X] Organize intercultural committees with Spain and Italy to have regular exchanges between our peoples to celebrate our common struggles against monarchism.

nachtingale said:

"Welfare queen! Welfare queen!" the liberal cries out in vain as they clutch to their moral purses, fueled by the ignoramus desire to assume that everyone else must clearly be more stupid than you, and therefor undeserving of what you so rightfully should. You, the responsible citizen. For that surely, they would not be able to responsibly use their medication, that they would not be able to responsibly ask for their fair share of food. That surely, if only we introduce but a small amount of monetary risk, that they would wisen up and act like responsible citizens.

Sure, if a comrade requires 10,000 of a fictional paper, but is only entitled to 5,000 according to his health insurance that the liberals clamor for, because of "sensible means testing", and dies afterwards, is that the fault of the state! No, cries the liberal, that is but a sacrifice we must make for the greater good, to comfort their shaking fists and arms as the moral pearls begin tumbling out faster from their hold than the Niagara Falls.

And what if they do not act responsibly? Should we shun them? Arrest them? Lock them up in a dark corner of the Republic where not even the sun touches? No, the liberal only seeks crime and punishment, caring not for his stupid fellows, for he himself is but the paragon of virtue, a symbol of what the citizens of the Republic ought to be, unlike the savages that rule the cities and farms and mines and dockyards and so on and so forth. He bemoans that only a sensible introduction of monetary risk may discipline the masses, that they do not deserve such privileges, unlike himself!

For after all, the liberal is a smart little boy, with a perfectly spherical cow.

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This is in response to what exactly?
Some argument you had back in 1860?
Surely that not another wild strawman that does not adress of the point of this debate, surely not!

Y'know, I'm not sure why SocDems are angling for a entanglement of friendship with Japan that goes further beyond anti-Russian alignment of convenience considering Japan is a)a monarchy, b)its imperial ambitions over Asia-Pacific, & c)eventually predisposed against the USA with Philippines under its protection. A USA we are friendly with ever since some German RadReps and a few German socialists helped defeat the Confederates & they returned the favor by aiding the RadReps & socialists during the German Civil War.

The US is also much more influenced by American Radical Republicanism TTL due to that history of collaboration. Heck, it's Germany who helped build TTL's counterpart of the Statue of Liberty.

And at the end of the day, USA has the potential to be a far more valuable ally to have than Japan

I know it's too late to request this, but nevertheless - perhaps someone could formulate an alternate SocDem plan that doesn't feature too much empowering of the Japanese empire?

So, one think I notice about the plans, is that we are once again, have a lot of compatible planks. At least three planks of each party are somewhat compatible with plank of another party.

For example, technical and financial support for our allies existed in one form or the other in all 4 parties platform. Specific military support is also present in both Radical - as military industry build up - and SocDem - as Landwehr advisers. Both Coop and Radicals are supporting rebellion in the Imperial League.

On domestic front, electrification is first and second plank of Communist and Coop respectively. The concept of national level research institutes are present in Communist's forth plank as National Institute for Higher Education and Research & Development and Radical's fifth plank as Academy of Advanced Sciences and Engineering. And despite the ration debate, both Communists and SocDem plans call for expansion of healthcare system.

Finally, all parties but the Coop is focus on military expansion in one way or the others - Communist focus on military infrastructure, SocDem on navy, and Radicals both navy and Landwehr.

Now, all of this are a board interpretation of planks, QM may decide that the specific are different enough to not be counted as "harmonious." In any case, I do feel like we are all agreeing on what is to be done, but are disputing on how. Unfortunate, how something is done is rather important, and with the formal consolidation of ideological parties, the sort of national consensus like it was in 1885 might be a harder, although not inconceivable.

Regency said:

Y'know, I'm not sure why SocDems are angling for a entanglement of friendship with Japan that goes further beyond anti-Russian alignment of convenience considering Japan is a)a monarchy, b)its imperial ambitions over Asia-Pacific, & c)eventually predisposed against the USA with Philippines under its protection. A USA we are friendly with ever since some German RadReps and a few German socialists helped defeat the Confederates & they returned the favor by aiding the RadReps & socialists during the German Civil War.

The US is also much more influenced by American Radical Republicanism TTL due to that history of collaboration. Heck, it's Germany who helped build TTL's counterpart of the Statue of Liberty.

And at the end of the day, USA has the potential to be a far more valuable ally to have than Japan

I know it's too late to request this, but nevertheless - perhaps someone could formulate an alternate SocDem plan that doesn't feature too much empowering of the Japanese empire?

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Because (and thats at least why i voted for it) japans way is not certain, and just how the politics of the US can be different so can they.
And friendly relations with us could be a catalyst for such change.

[x] The Radical Party
-[x] A Radical Tomorrow, Together with Socialists
--[x] Assist Spain & Italy in military-industrial build-up in preparation for our showdown against the Imperial League.
--[x] Incorporate radicals and Jacobins into the International Worker's Association to the socialist one. Create a sub-branch called the Volunteers for Liberty group which will coordinate revolutionary volunteers for foreign conflicts.
--[x] Consolidate our "Alpine Academy" as a foreign intelligence service to begin establishing networks in the Imperial League. The networks should support radical and revolutionary movements and prepare to impede the Imperial war effort, and if feasible, prepare uprisings.
--[x] Continue both naval expansion for Baltic supremacy & the reforms of the Leutewehr in line with the Civil War Report.
--[x] Establish the Academy of Advanced Sciences and Engineering to begin an investigation into new forms of technology, such as Benz's internal combustion engine and the development of new medicines.
--[x] Organize intercultural committees with Spain and Italy to have regular exchanges between our peoples to celebrate our common struggles against monarchism.

Chipsy_21 said:

Because (and thats at least why i voted for it) japans way is not certain, and just how the politics of the US can be different so can they.
And friendly relations with us could be a catalyst for such change.

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If both are in uncertain direction, then JAA is the one to pick. The US ia the one which we have invested a long friendship with, it is on its own dimension in terms of potential as an industrial power, & cruciaply it already has a local radical republican current that is proven to be powerful.

It is obviois that a post-thorough Reconstruction USA we have is not only a more crucial potential ally to have in the potential Alliance - Entente conflict if we beat the League - they are also more politically palateable to Germany. American alliance has better upsides than Japanese alliance.

If you actually want to change Japan's course, then rather than empowering its military establishment - which plank 4-6 of the socdem plan would inadvertently lead to - maneuver instead to empower Japanese revolutionary liberals (aka radreps) & socialists.

-[X] Expand the National Ration allotments to include the new medicinal drugs and medical devices being developed by the Republic, as well as semi-annual general practitioner, specialist (including obstetric), and dentist visits, and establish clinics and pharmacies for their distribution.

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Ok, I think I'm misunderstanding something here, because this seems insane and yet I don't see that many people worrying about it.

Like, free medicine and consistent access to general and specialized medical professionals, that's all good, I agree with the end goal there.

But why the National Ration!? How is that supposed to work, a random mismash of medication alongside the usual ration? How is a system designed to consistently distribute essential goods to the entire citizenry a good option for the distribution of medicine of all things?

I guess I could see things like aspirins, disinfectants and the like being classified as essential goods and included in the ration. But the vast majory of medicaments are going to be too especialized for it to make sense. Even if we had the pharmaceutical production necessary to supply everyone with everything, wich I don't think we have yet, that just seems like it would end in a lot of waste as people receive things they aren't going to actually need.

Tl;dr Free medicine for everyone? Good. National Ration as a way to distribute it? Questionable. Could someone explain why do they think is a good idea please?


[X] The Cooperative Party
-[X] Plan Cooperativism is Local Control Plus Electrification of the Whole Country
--[X] Organize local planning hubs as equal partners to the republic wide planning commission, tasked with short loop answers to local demand.
--[X] Invest in a country wide electrification drive, with the ultimate goal to reach every community in time.
--[X] Send human and financial assistance to Spain and Italy to help them build up their worker and farmer owned economies.
--[X] Connect with underground rebellious elements in our imperial league neighbours to organize revolutionary defeatist networks ready to sabotage the empires' war effort when liberation comes for them.
--[X] Set up non-territorial councils and communication hubs so that people of particular languages and culture groups can discuss matters relevant to them as such.
--[X] Compulsory Education shall include a course including outdoors survival, navigation and firearm operation.

Shador said:

Ok, I think I'm misunderstanding something here, because this seems insane and yet I don't see that many people worrying about it.

Like, free medicine and consistent access to general and specialized medical professionals, that's all good, I agree with the end goal there.

But why the National Ration!? How is that supposed to work, a random mismash of medication alongside the usual ration? How is a system designed to consistently distribute essential goods to the entire citizenry a good option for the distribution of medicine of all things?

I guess I could see things like aspirins, disinfectants and the like being classified as essential goods and included in the ration. But the vast majory of medicaments are going to be too especialized for it to make sense. Even if we had the pharmaceutical production necessary to supply everyone with everything, wich I don't think we have yet, that just seems like it would end in a lot of waste as people receive things they aren't going to actually need.

Tl;dr Free medicine for everyone? Good. National Ration as a way to distribute it? Questionable. Could someone explain why do they think is a good idea please?

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The national ration is more a list of basic goods and services we've taken away from the market and guaranteed to our citizens than a ration card, as I understand it, so I think it's workable.

[X] The Cooperative Party
-[X] Plan Cooperativism is Local Control Plus Electrification of the Whole Country
--[X] Organize local planning hubs as equal partners to the republic wide planning commission, tasked with short loop answers to local demand.
--[X] Invest in a country wide electrification drive, with the ultimate goal to reach every community in time.
--[X] Send human and financial assistance to Spain and Italy to help them build up their worker and farmer owned economies.
--[X] Connect with underground rebellious elements in our imperial league neighbours to organize revolutionary defeatist networks ready to sabotage the empires' war effort when liberation comes for them.
--[X] Set up non-territorial councils and communication hubs so that people of particular languages and culture groups can discuss matters relevant to them as such.
--[X] Compulsory Education shall include a course including outdoors survival, navigation and firearm operation.

Nyvis said:

The national ration is more a list of basic goods and services we've taken away from the market and guaranteed to our citizens than a ration card, as I understand it, so I think it's workable.

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And this was done how?
Because knowing that is pretty important for this, because if it is a ration card style as i and others assume makes medical dispensation through it it incredibly weird.

Chipsy_21 said:

And this was done how?
Because knowing that is pretty important for this, because if it is a ration card style as i and others assume makes medical dispensation through it it incredibly weird.

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To put it simply in how I imagine medicine would be handled in the National Ration, it works more like a baseline of guaranteed amenities rather than a strict amount of medical care you can request at any point in time. So say for example the ration allots you 4 visits to a clinic a month, it doesn't mean you can't visit the clinic more than 4 times, it simply means you are able to do so 4 times free of charge, with the additional going towards insurance or pre-existing public health programs.

With the new system, currently the Communists get four planks, the Cooperatives two, the Radicals two, and the Socdems one, for nine total planks carried out.

[X] Social Democratic Party
-[X] Socialism on the Seven Seas
--[X] Create a streamlined framework for issuing and trading of bonds by local governments, banks and commercial enterprises. Bonds will only be nominally taxed to encourage their use.
--[X] Pursue an expansion and modernization of the Marinewehr. It is shameful that our navy is not up to the standard of the Landwehr.
--[X] Expand and modernize the healthcare system to accomodate the rapidly growing population.
--[X] Try and create a friendship treaty with Japan
--[X] Use the foreign development bank to specifically target Italy, Spain and Japan (if they accept the friendship treaty) with loans and investments.
--[X] Establish numerous dedicated engineering colleges and institutes to slowly build up the expertise necessary for continued expansion of the economy. The curriculum will include mandatory classes on military engineering.
--[X] Send German Landwehr advisors to Italy and Japan to help them establish militaries of the same quality as Germany. Japan's advisors go on the condition that they accept the friendship treaty.

nachtingale said:

To put it simply in how I imagine medicine would be handled in the National Ration, it works more like a baseline of guaranteed amenities rather than a strict amount of medical care you can request at any point in time. So say for example the ration allots you 4 visits to a clinic a month, it doesn't mean you can't visit the clinic more than 4 times, it simply means you are able to do so 4 times free of charge, with the additional going towards insurance or pre-existing public health programs.

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The part of the plank about healthcare services really isn't the problem here, free healthcare is good.
The problem is with medical goods,
which id argue are by their nature unsuitable for the ration program.
Medicine is not like food, water, or shelter;
The need for them is always situational, you always need food, water and shelter, you only need medicine when theres already a (or a forseeable) problem with your health.
So why put them into the same distribution system?

Chipsy_21 said:

The part of the plank about healthcare services really isn't the problem here, free healthcare is good.
The problem is with medical goods,
which id argue are by their nature unsuitable for the ration program.
Medicine is not like food, water, or shelter;
The need for them is always situational, you always need food, water and shelter, you only need medicine when theres already a (or a forseeable) problem with your health.
So why put them into the same distribution system?

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Why not? Seriously, why is there a problem with distributing medicine as a fundamental right that every resident has? Why shouldn't they receive medicine as such? People go to the pharmacy to get something for their, say, morning headache or mild flu, why not give more people access to that option? Unless, of course, you're assuming that people have a natural affinity with getting addicted, in which case the argument should be expanding programs to treat it, not restricting it even further.

[X] The Cooperative Party
-[X] Plan Cooperativism is Local Control Plus Electrification of the Whole Country
--[X] Organize local planning hubs as equal partners to the republic wide planning commission, tasked with short loop answers to local demand.
--[X] Invest in a country wide electrification drive, with the ultimate goal to reach every community in time.
--[X] Send human and financial assistance to Spain and Italy to help them build up their worker and farmer owned economies.
--[X] Connect with underground rebellious elements in our imperial league neighbours to organize revolutionary defeatist networks ready to sabotage the empires' war effort when liberation comes for them.
--[X] Set up non-territorial councils and communication hubs so that people of particular languages and culture groups can discuss matters relevant to them as such.
--[X] Compulsory Education shall include a course including outdoors survival, navigation and firearm operation.

Chipsy_21 said:

The part of the plank about healthcare services really isn't the problem here, free healthcare is good.
The problem is with medical goods,
which id argue are by their nature unsuitable for the ration program.
Medicine is not like food, water, or shelter;
The need for them is always situational, you always need food, water and shelter, you only need medicine when theres already a (or a forseeable) problem with your health.
So why put them into the same distribution system?

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I think you're focusing way too much on the name of the program rather than what it represents. There's is nothing saying you have a fixed allocation of medical goods. The national ration is more of a general umbrella for attempts to guarantee basic services and goods. It's probably just going to be free prescriptions.