fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
So can we eat a human soul when killing them if their soul would have gone to the thousand hells?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- Terror Australis
In Ex2(.5) permadeath charms have a clear progression for Solaroids (and Primordials). The base charm shreds spirits and allows you to truly kill anything no matter what sort of get out of death free effect it has. A repurchase at essence 5 grants the ability to annihilate the souls/spiritual aspects of physical creatures. Finally a third purchase at essence 7 give the power to break even perfect reincarnation/inheritance effects, with the sole exception of exaltations.
So given the established progression Molly can't yet destroy regular peoples souls, unless they manifest as a ghost or are otherwise already disincarnate.
So given the established progression Molly can't yet destroy regular peoples souls, unless they manifest as a ghost or are otherwise already disincarnate.
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Molly has no idea what would happen if you tried that.
- Location
- Germany
Going by that we'd need E7 to destroy a Mantle for good?
That looks to be far away now.
- Location
- Terror Australis
Depends on the Mantle, the essence 7 version is only required for perfect inheritance effects (of which there are a few in Exalted, in addition to the Celestial Exalted), lesser spiritual inheritance get destroyed by the essence 5 purchase.
Given that a fair number of mantles (like all/most of the Fae ones) seem to be created by sacrificial ritual magic they are probably not nearly that resilient and would be at least heavily damaged by the essence 5 effect.
Also there is still the option to use ritual magic or sorcery to mess with the mantle directly, which is going to be much easier for most target than booting Molly's Exaltation up to full power and reaching essence 7.
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Mantles themselves seem to be some manner of spirits. I doubt that they would be that hard to destroy.
Also, an argument to make for why there's no point to promising this: both Emma-O and Odin already know that we can destroy souls. Emma-O through loss of the Will of Kakuri, Odin through Gard who, as a psychopomp, should have senses to detect what transpired.
There's a lot here you arent thinking through.
A standard diesel-electric locomotive, just the engine, not the passenger or freight carriages, masses between 140 and 200 metric tons. They average around 70 feet long, 13-15 feet wide and 15 feet tall.
How big is a train engine?
Train engines are much bigger than your car, and their huge size and weight means they aren’t nimble at all. That’s why you should always stop for an oncoming train. But how big is a train engine? Sizes vary depending
dfarq.homeip.net
Then there's the diesel-electric part of that equation.
Where is the air for running an internal combustion engine underground coming from?Where's the exhaust going to?
How do you keep from poisoning everyone with exhaust smoke and carbon monoxide? I mean, running a car engine in a closed garage will poison you, let alone a diesel engine in a tunnel.
A train suitable for integration into Last Station has to be:
Rail Independent
Because most places will not have the metric tons of steel and concrete underfoot that conventional trains run on.
Power Independent
We cannot run a several thousand horsepower internal combustion engine underground without killing passengers and bystanders, have no interest in buying thousands of liters of diesel regularly, and any attempt at setting up an electric network like many subways use is vulnerable to sabotage. So it has to carry its own power onboard.
Shapeshifting
Capable of adjusting its own form and mass depending on the location or passenger needs, or of modifying the environment to accomodate its mass. The first is easier than the second.
Armed, Armored and Protected.
Duh.
Weapons, armor and stuff like magic shielding and environmental protection.
Self-repairing
Critical. Unless you are committing to spending a significant amount of our time on maintenance
High tech principles, but a lot of that stuff needs magic reinforcement to function.
We would essentially adding a magic tool to Potter's panoply, modelled on the Midnight Express and the Solar Monorail Chirmirajen from Exalted 2E's Ink Monkeys.
Thats the province of Enchantment 6 or Exalted Crafting, with some Ancient Sorcery spells subbing in as some of the components necessary to build this thing to work to spec.
1)If it was that easy Nemesis would have destroyed the Fae Courts back when they infected Aurora and Maeve.
Its a lot like looking at the Coins and thinking that breaking the coins themselves should be easy.
I get the impression there's a lot more disused Mantles than there are destroyed ones.
2)None of whom share information for free.
Dont make the mistake of assuming that because one or two people know something, its now public knowledge.
The Denarians, Michael and probably Mab have known Dresden has had Lasciel's Coin for several years, for example; that doesnt make it public knowledge.
If anything, Emma-O would do his best to bury the information if he could, along with the news that his greater akuma was permakilled. Greater akuma are a significant chess piece for YKs, and losing one on a mission weakens his options to work his will until he can get replacements. I would not be at all surprised if he puts out a cover story to obscure what happened to it.
Suckering other Yama Kings into sending their greater akuma to Molly and getting them permakilled would also benefit his position against his rivals.
And Odin's mercs dont have loose lips.
The reputation of not talking about what they see while under contract is part of why they cost so much to hire; confidentiality is part of what you're buying, after all.
You're not precisely wrong, but you're taking a very negative angle with it and ignoring some context.
If you aren't at least a Wizard grade talent and you don't have a full grown wizard's worth of defenses then you're snack food. Charity grew up as krill, and nearly got eaten by a whale.
I wouldn't make the same choices, but keeping your head down isn't some tragic maladaptation, it's the basic survival strategy of everyone who makes it past their teenage years aware of the supernatural.
Worth noting that even being a full wizard isn't always enough. If you look at Dresden's behavior IC it's arguably pretty suicidal.
Just being in the splash zone of one of the things he got involved with got Molly turned into the winter lady. Something that in the normal order of things slowly mutates the bearer's soul until they turn into a literally soulless monster.
Things change when you have actual power like Molly does now, but no one gave a copy of ExWoD and a 2E reference book to Charity to give her an idea of what's going on.
We should be careful about commitments, but agreeing to reasonable ones we should be doing anyway isn't the sort we should be worried about.
Charity isn't just some random person either, she's Molly's mother. That is why any of this matters and will continue to matter.
- Location
- Georgia
To the recycling bin.
Seriously tho, how is that different from akuma soul going straight back to yomi for a rebirth?
Even a local DF sorcerer could eat mortal souls and deny them afterlife just fine. Weird restriction for Molly.
To the recycling bin.
Seriously tho, how is that different from akuma soul going straight back to yomi for a rebirth?
Even a local DF sorcerer could eat mortal souls and deny them afterlife just fine. Weird restriction for Molly.
The Akuma soul was basically a spirit of Yomi at that point, it would not transcend, just go to some place in the Nevernever to be rehoused.
It's not like it matters that much.To the recycling bin.
Seriously tho, how is that different from akuma soul going straight back to yomi for a rebirth?
Even a local DF sorcerer could eat mortal souls and deny them afterlife just fine. Weird restriction for Molly.
The purpose of the charm is primarily to ensure that when we kill things they don't get to come back and screw with us later. The essence recovery is just icing on the cake.
Their souls are permanently gone from our slice of reality, so the net effect is the same.
- Location
- Georgia
Yomi wan is a place in nevernever where moral souls go after death. The only distinction here is "spirit of yomi" vs "human soul". What I am getting at is the charm should affect mortal should just fine.
If I wanted to make a distinction, I would say that freshly dead mortal soul is simply too ephemeral and trying to 'eat' it with this charm is like biting air. Not "juicy" enough. XD
The distinction is in this cosmology souls are not supposed to stay in the nevernever for eternity as the Yama Kings have (mostly) arranged. Can't say more without spoilers.
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We may have a fishing license now, but it's still good policy to throw the little ones back so they can grow up into something tasty.
It doesnt affect mortals because most mortal souls move on immediately to whatever is next after dying; they dont linger in the mortal world or in the NeverNever. Remember that the goal of the charm is to force something thats been killed to stay dead; any Essence regen is a side effect of that, not the design goal.
It certainly isnt because human souls arent juicy enough; a lot of immortal spirits, like the greater akuma we just killed, can gain power and sustenance from feeding on humans.
And humans have always been a popular choice for magical sacrifices by the unscrupulous and the evil:
===
Exalted 2E Books of Sorcery Vol 5 Ghosts and Demons pg 95
Thats how it worked in 2E: It forced the once-human ghost to move on to be reincarnated.
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Vote closed, lets see about those librarians.
This is a bad case of design creep. The statement by Porter was:There's a lot here you arent thinking through.
A standard diesel-electric locomotive, just the engine, not the passenger or freight carriages, masses between 140 and 200 metric tons. They average around 70 feet long, 13-15 feet wide and 15 feet tall.
Consider how you intend to get something that size down into the tunnels of Undertown quietly.How big is a train engine?
Train engines are much bigger than your car, and their huge size and weight means they aren’t nimble at all. That’s why you should always stop for an oncoming train. But how big is a train engine? Sizes vary depending
Then there's the diesel-electric part of that equation.
Where is the air for running an internal combustion engine underground coming from?Where's the exhaust going to?
How do you keep from poisoning everyone with exhaust smoke and carbon monoxide? I mean, running a car engine in a closed garage will poison you, let alone a diesel engine in a tunnel.
A train suitable for integration into Last Station has to be:
Rail Independent
Because most places will not have the metric tons of steel and concrete underfoot that conventional trains run on.
Power Independent
We cannot run a several thousand horsepower internal combustion engine underground without killing passengers and bystanders, have no interest in buying thousands of liters of diesel regularly, and any attempt at setting up an electric network like many subways use is vulnerable to sabotage. So it has to carry its own power onboard.
Shapeshifting
Capable of adjusting its own form and mass depending on the location or passenger needs, or of modifying the environment to accomodate its mass. The first is easier than the second.
Armed, Armored and Protected.
Duh.
Weapons, armor and stuff like magic shielding and environmental protection.
Self-repairing
Critical. Unless you are committing to spending a significant amount of our time on maintenance
High tech principles, but a lot of that stuff needs magic reinforcement to function.
We would essentially adding a magic tool to Potter's panoply, modelled on the Midnight Express and the Solar Monorail Chirmirajen from Exalted 2E's Ink Monkeys.
Thats the province of Enchantment 6 or Exalted Crafting, with some Ancient Sorcery spells subbing in as some of the components necessary to build this thing to work to spec.
I fixated on a train as a mobile platform, and let's discuss that first, but we'll discuss other options afterwards.
1) Diesel engine. First of all, Porter directly said that he can empower all that is Last Station. It's quite possible we don't need an engine at all. If we do (so Porter can focus his power elsewhere), then the electrical power should be available. If electrified rails and such are impossible for some reason (more on this later), then batteries should be viable. Yes, batteries. Remember, any cobmat engagement is unlikely to last more than half an hour. If we take this chart, we get volumetric energy density of 55 wh/liter for mundane batteries. With exalted grade mundane craft we can probably increase that, but let's say 55 wh/liter. Assuming three cubic meters of batteries (quite possible), we get 165 kwh, or 595 MJ. Data suggests that this is more than enough.
Assuming we want the train to be perfectly autonomous and such, a compact nuclear engine should be easy. It's early 1950s tech, the only issue is shielding (which Porter needs far less of, and thus we'll only need to make an outer casing to protect ghouls and such, thus combining it with train armor), and perhaps control, which Porter can take care of. It should be, at most, Technology 3 ( @DragonParadox ? I am prepared to argue this case in detail). And we should be able to find and mine uranium from sea floor, and enrich it with TTC. This should also resonate with the core themes of wicked city, if I understand correctly.
2) Rail independent. What for? Porter generally seems to be disinclined to travel. He's basically a genius loci of the place, or wants to be. Repairing Last Station's railtracks and expanding them should be part of our redesign anyway. Alternatively, superconducting levitation is an option, and, again, 1970s technology. The only issue is generating cold, and, ok, that might take magic, but it's a kakuri-resonant magic, which should help.
3) Shapeshifting and passengers. Well outside the stated goal. Which is to give Porter a platform to fight from afar.
4) Self-repairing, Even assuming Porter doesn't handle this himself, yes, it's an issue, but not an insurmountable one. And only after combat. Remember, spirit-posssessed technology isn't susceptible to techbane.
1)In at least some ways, Porter is weaker than Bob. Certainly weaker than EvilBob, if you remember the possessed submarine.
He compared his empowerment to that of our cyberdevils. Cyberdevil-possessed equipment explicitly requires external power.
Ergo, whatever we are looking at has to have its own empowerment.
And yes, batteries are my default assumption. With ancient sorcery to keep them regenerating themselves to full charge.
There are no commercial battery-powered trains that Im aware of in 2006; there's some maintenance rolling stock that operates on electrified rail, but its designed for limited endurance with the battery as a backup. Our needs requires building a custom train, not one we buy off the open market, even before you start to thinking of the ancillary requirements like the armoring and weapons.
I have zero interest in putting nuclear power systems in an urban combat situation, btw. Just to be clear.
2)No, well within the stated requirements.
This is not a flat plain with clear sightlines, these are the tunnels of Undertown. They arent uniformly sized or reinforced, they arent straight or safe, and Porter doesnt spend all his time in Last Station.
Literally our first meeting with Porter was him moving us beyond Last Station in pursuit of Corpsetaker-in-Lydia, getting in a fight with a ghost swarm commanded by Corpsetaker and subsequently moving us to an exit. And the latest abduction of Jade Dogs left him unable to pursue, or even just to load up people during the attack and beat a tactical retreat.
If we do this, we're building this for his benefit and that of the Jade Dogs when Molly isnt present.
So we take those usecases into account.
Next time it might be someone*cough*Fomor*cough* with poison gas, which will do nothing to Porter, but will murder every squishy in the place.
3)See above.
If it cannot move, we might as well just put weapon-mounted pillboxes in the walls of Last Station. Just as effective an immobile weapon system and cheaper to build and armor to boot.
4)Stations are terminuses that receive transportation from elsewhere. Not places that you move around in by rail.
The humanoid accessible parts that form the majority of the station besides the loading platform itself are not accessible to 100-ton+, 20-metre long train engines.
And you underestimate how much material is involved in railways; while doing research for another quest, I've found citations of between ~60-70 kilograms of steel per meter for new rails in the US, which comes to 120-140 tons of steel for a single kilometer of single track rail line. Not counting anything else, from the railroad ties to the ground preparation.
5)Spirit-possessed technology is not susceptible to techbane, but it is susceptible to combat damage.
Everything from magic to a bogstandard RPG.
We know this personally; we stormed a possessed submarine a couple months ago.
===
Essentially, the moment you started thinking "underground combat train empowered by elemental" you were always going to have a hard requirement of high-end magic to make it work.
Even with a base requirement of technology.
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Winning Vote
Arc 6 Post 38: Of Straightforward Solutions
Of Straightforward Solutions
5nd of October 2006 A.D.
Just how many more restrictions do you expect me to take on mom? you bristle, though the thought never gets spoken, on second thought all the better for it. She's not asking for a promise to never kill something all the way dead again, but to be cautious. What that means is still up to you and you know your mother knows that as well. "I'll be careful," you nod firmly, even though there is a part of you that agrees with Usum's assessment. "When oh Lady of Dark Arising would be be wiser to let a foe return than with vengence in their heart than to drive the dagger fully through. "
"Thanks Molly," Mom answers, breathing a little easier. She does not even grumble at writing and signing off on another bullshit excuse for the school,
In a way you guess it is a 'family emergency', dad is going to be coming with and it is very urgent to get those vampires in some place more secure than lying in pieces in Harry's living room, circles or not.
***
On a scale of one to Men in Black 2 the agents of the Library of Congress rate a solid seven for how noticeable they are. The trio of vans are powder blue not black and the windows aren't tinted, though they are remarkably thick. As the driver of the lead one rolls his down, you notice the edge glints bluish purple rather than the green of normal glass, alchemically treated
"More's Morning Movers," the man says, looking over his sunglasses at detective Murphy, because of course they have those. "One hundred percent safe delivery."
"This way," she motions towards Harry's place, the door ajar, stacked boxes covered with tarps clearly visible. What better way to pass off a vampire than in a coffin after all? It's traditional.
The lead agent who introduces himself as 'Greg' though you doubt you'd be able to take that one to the bank, seems rather nonplussed at the state his prisoners are in.
"Best wake them up first, procedure is to feed fangs before transfer so they don't act irrationally. I know these aren't your regular fangs but they still need a drink and get cranky if they don't get it for long. That's what the report said."
Lieutenant Murphy just nods, but you are a bit more dubious about the nine agents can handle all the prisoners. "Are you sure...?"
"Oh yeah, More's got the tools for the job," 'Greg' proclaims in a faux-cheerful tone like a late night TV add that hides something darker. "Let's get inside and I'll show you."
Harry is clearly not enthused at letting any kind of spooks past his threshold and the muttered 'sorry about that, it's business' does not help much. These people had clearly not been chosen for their diplomatic skills, though you quickly find out just what they had been chosen for..
The head agent sets a duffel bag on the counter with a clink, half metal, half plastic, your enhanced senses tell you. Out of it he pulls a sleek looking collar, black steel with futuristic looking studs on it, wouldn't look out of place as a accessory in some clubs you've been to. Judging from his frown dad had figured out what they were for before Agent Greg starts talking.
"Mark Two Compliance Collar, it can deliver shocks, but that is just to get a fang's attention if they start to rage out. The important bit is the C4 in them. Enough to blow the head clean off the toughest..." he snorts and seems to unwind a bit. "I'll spare you the marketing shall I? Good enough to blow off the head off anything we'd agree to transport cross country in a van."
"Who has the controls?" You ask, wondering how they got around the obvious flaw.
"Each of them is linked to a different agent, but they don't just work off vocal commands. if the linked agent to have some kind of unusual biochemical reaction, like say if something were to magically induce a feeling of awe, terror, desire, subservience, you name it the collar goes off."
"What if something else happens to make you lose your calm?" dad asks, sounding quite sure he isn't going to like the answer.
"We all have training not to, but in this job it's better to have a false positive than a false negative considering..."
"Judge, jury and executioner," Detective Murphy mutters under her breath, though she sounds more sad than angry
Alas Harry is not as content to be quiet: "Are vampires the only ones you use those on Agent Mulder?"
"My team only deals with vampires," the agent replies evenly. "If you want to talk policy we have a full liaison with Edinburgh, send them a letter, I'm sure he could do with some work in that damn cushy job of his."
One of the other agents, a dark haired woman who had forgone the sunglasses cracks a smile and so do you, though more out of a wish to disarm the situation. Let it go Harry. The enemy of my enemy is... someone you at least want a nonaggression pact with.
To your relief he does and the rest of the transfer goes smoothly. All the prisoners have their limbs after you had spent the better part of two hours stitching them on, the bags of refrigerated blood wake up the prisoners enough for their situation to be explained in detail which is rather remarkable given the fact that, Akuma or not, the Wan Kuei do not feed on blood, but chi. Blood separated from its source should have long since lost the spark of life.
That is when you notice the bowl of Hygeia has rather more symbols around its brim than usual, which is to say any symbols at all and the serpent of Epidaurus also has some oddly shaped scales, a spell of preservation. On its own that would have been mildly impressive, a proper enchantment, but it does not work independently of the function of the portable fridge, rather it enhances it from the realms of the physical into the spiritual. Andrea's Von Trier's disdain for Daedalus aside it is clear that the organization she is part of is more than willing to embrace modern technology and even meld it with sorcery in subtle, unpretentious ways.
Quietly you point it out to Harry. "See, you can totally have working electronics in here."
He gives you a bit of an odd look. "Not really what's on my mind right now Molly."
"They seem to know what they're doing," you say, trying to reassure him. The servants of Emma-O certainly seem to believe in these mortals' willingness to blow their heads off. None of them had even tried to grandstand or to invoke the name of their lord, though that might have to do with you also being in the room.
His next words are so soft you barely catch them sitting next to him on the couch. "Yeah, that's what I'm worried about."
Do you have any questions for the agents of the Library of Congress?
[] Yes
-[] Write in
[] No, continue to Saint Mary's where Father Forthil will try to exorcise that poor girl
[] Write in
OOC: Not the strongest vote to end on, but I feel like this is a good cut off and you are in a position to ask questions
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Rolls
Harry not to run his mouth (should have only been 8 dice, but I decided to just discount the last roll which was a five anyway)
Molly occult to understand the magic on the blood fridge
Lesser Akuma not do do something stupid and get their heads blown off all over Harry's living room
Harry not to run his mouth (should have only been 8 dice, but I decided to just discount the last roll which was a five anyway)
Molly occult to understand the magic on the blood fridge
Lesser Akuma not do do something stupid and get their heads blown off all over Harry's living room
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Porter compared his possession to the cyber devils since that is what she saw you interact with. Howeever that does not mean he is as weak as them. He is powerful enough to posses a train as long as it is in or near the Last Station.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Molly at least should be able to get out of one of those collars. CCC enhances escape artist checks and she should even be able to soak the damage. Also I expect that the collars do lethal damage so if she doesn't soak it she can heal it quickly.
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Molly does not think she counts as something the agents would be willing to carry cross country in a van yes