[X] Do not make the promise, it is a power like any other, if something is dangerous enough, evil enough it should be destroyed, not for a season, not for a year, not for a century but forevermore
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
COMMENTARY
-5th of October is a Thursday. Guessing the sibs went to school, and Michael is home from work today.
I have to say that Molly's siblings are some of my favorites of her supporting cast.
And Leech remains a favorite.
-Ah, Charity's momdar fails for once. Finally.
I also find it interesting that Michael didnt see it necessary to share that Molly carried the weightbearing portion of the mission.
Daniel probably knows though, after talking with Lydia.
-I think Molly is wrong about the mortal souls limitation by the way.
I suspect it will work just fine against Kemmler, Corpsetaker and similar bodyjumpers by the way.
Unless she doesnt think they count.
-I honestly cant think of a reasonable reason to tell Charity no; perma-killing immortals does deserve to be treated with some gravitas.
And to be fair to Charity, the vote option doesnt say Dont Use It, it says Exercise Caution.
I have no trouble with that; there arent all that many entities who can return from being killed once anyway in the Dresdenverse(not sure about WoD), and our sword does Agg against everyone with combat time regen.
Not to mention that it would serve as an ugly surprise to any hostile ignorant of it.
When its absolutely necessary to use it, we'll use it.
And Charity "Stab Hostile Fae with Cold Iron" Carpenter is going to be in our corner when we do so.
Save our actual disagreements with Charity for places where it matters. This is small potatoes.
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Not a great result for us if they bulldoze their way through our friends and support cast first before we cut them down.
Pyrrhic victories remain a real risk to hedge against.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[x] Promise to exercise caution in the use of Murder is Meat
As far as Molly understands her father, he's not a machine, nor is he fey, so he is not going to lie, but he is also not going to go out of his way to reformulate a story and add detail just to stress someone out, especially as in his estimation she may have taken on an outsized amount of the enemies but not necessarily the risk. Michael may not be able to see your Health levels or Stamina, but he does know that armor of brass, stone and arcane fire is a hell of a thing to cut through. As a Knight of the Cross and someone who has lived though many battles he knows that Molly was the toughest combatant on one side taking out the most deadly on the other even as Michael Carpenter the father occasionally hyperventilates thinking about it and he knows Charity would have the same reaction.
When it comes to things that return from being killed... that is technically what would happen if you killed say Mab (as in obliterated her physical from which is made of matter if augmented) when it is not Halloween. She is not literally impervious to damage or regenerates from ash, she would reform in the heart of her power drawing on the eternal nature of Winter.
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[x] Promise to exercise caution in the use of Murder is Meat
Yeah, upon reading reasoning I am convinced that this isn't actually a promise. It's saying "use your best judgement" like we have some other, lesser, judgement we like to use.
Yeah, upon reading reasoning I am convinced that this isn't actually a promise. It's saying "use your best judgement" like we have some other, lesser, judgement we like to use.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x] Promise to exercise caution in the use of Murder is Meat
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
We have made enough promises for the sake of Charity's cowardice.
[X] Do not make the promise, it is a power like any other, if something is dangerous enough, evil enough it should be destroyed, not for a season, not for a year, not for a century but forevermore
Odin, the Einherjar, the ghouls should be evidence enough that we can be dealt with fairly. Let the evidence also stand that we should not be dealt with unfairly.
Finally, it's time we took a lesson from every other being of power in the setting and started being a lot more cautious about making promises and giving our word in general. We may, alone in the entire setting, not have to fear broken oaths shackling our power, but even so our solemnly-given word is too valuable to be handing out for such things as reassuring one person for the umpteenth time- out of what will likely be hundreds, if we don't get ourselves killed too soon.
We need to get out of the habit of making promises, and we need to break Charity of the habit of demanding them.
Tl;dr I don't mind what she's asking us to promise, I mind making the promise itself.
[X] Do not make the promise, it is a power like any other, if something is dangerous enough, evil enough it should be destroyed, not for a season, not for a year, not for a century but forevermore
Odin, the Einherjar, the ghouls should be evidence enough that we can be dealt with fairly. Let the evidence also stand that we should not be dealt with unfairly.
Finally, it's time we took a lesson from every other being of power in the setting and started being a lot more cautious about making promises and giving our word in general. We may, alone in the entire setting, not have to fear broken oaths shackling our power, but even so our solemnly-given word is too valuable to be handing out for such things as reassuring one person for the umpteenth time- out of what will likely be hundreds, if we don't get ourselves killed too soon.
We need to get out of the habit of making promises, and we need to break Charity of the habit of demanding them.
Tl;dr I don't mind what she's asking us to promise, I mind making the promise itself.
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[X] Promise to exercise caution in the use of Murder is Meat
- Location
- Germany
I thought the whole concept with these Mantles was that if Mab (or her Lady or Knight) were to physically die, the Mantle would move on to the next candidate and the person would stay dead.
The Fey in this setting are near-human, not truly immortal spirits, no matter how much they'd like to pretend otherwise.
If they die on Halloween yes or in a place of power like the Stone Table, otherwise no. That is why those places and times are important, only there can the mantles be transferred in death
- Location
- Germany
Sure?
I thought the plot oif Summer Knight was that people wanted to permanently mess with the Winter/Summer balance and needed Halloween (and the Stone Table) for that.
That's a lot more than "just" passing on the Mantle to the next bearer.
As an aside, can we guess what would happen if we killed a Fey with a Mantle using MiM?
Would it just kill the person, or destroy the Mantle as well?
We made what, one, two promises? And this one is extremely reasonable at that, nor is it born of cowardice, fearing the death of your daughter is not, has never been, and will never be cowardice.
Frankly, most of your post sounds like edgy bullshit to me, this probably wasn't your intent, but it definitely is how it came out.
Summer knight messed with the balance by imprisoning the mantle... rather familiar to another story I could name
Molly does not know enough about mantles to be sure, you would have to ask Bob (read terrify and fascinate).
[X] Do not make the promise, it is a power like any other, if something is dangerous enough, evil enough it should be destroyed, not for a season, not for a year, not for a century but forevermore
It literally our only way at prevent death from mook spam.
It literally our only way at prevent death from mook spam.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Do not make the promise, it is a power like any other, if something is dangerous enough, evil enough it should be destroyed, not for a season, not for a year, not for a century but forevermore
[X] Promise to exercise caution in the use of Murder is Meat
Caution isn't a blood oath not to use it when needed, it's just a promise to think twice and cut once. Which frankly we should be doing since we're talking about soul death.
Creatures with real physical bodies like fey are exceptions to this (barring mantles), and while they're more common locally technically speaking they're vastly outnumbered by the things in the rest of the nevernever.
I don't really agree with a number of her positions or methods, but it's worth acknowledging that most of her concerns have some legitimate basis with the information she actually has available.
She isn't actually wrong here either; MiM is a big deal and we should be mindful of the consequences of our actions. I wouldn't promise to set aside such a useful charm, but just weighing the consequences of our actions before committing to them is a good idea when dealing with this sort of power.
Caution isn't a blood oath not to use it when needed, it's just a promise to think twice and cut once. Which frankly we should be doing since we're talking about soul death.
A wide variety of nevernever things do. Specifically the type that form a body for themselves out of ectoplasm to enter reality like Binder's goons. I'm pretty sure it's explicitly laid out that part of why they're so laid back about the risks he orders them to take is that unless you hunt them down in their home realm what you're really doing is a particularly violent exorcism.
Creatures with real physical bodies like fey are exceptions to this (barring mantles), and while they're more common locally technically speaking they're vastly outnumbered by the things in the rest of the nevernever.
There's a lot you can accuse Charity of, but cowardice isn't really one of them. She was willing to storm Arctis Tor with a mortal grade warhammer to get her daughter back and that is far from the only time she's done something like that.
I don't really agree with a number of her positions or methods, but it's worth acknowledging that most of her concerns have some legitimate basis with the information she actually has available.
She isn't actually wrong here either; MiM is a big deal and we should be mindful of the consequences of our actions. I wouldn't promise to set aside such a useful charm, but just weighing the consequences of our actions before committing to them is a good idea when dealing with this sort of power.
- Location
- washington
I'll note fae have a lot of mantles some have multiple mantles or at least fae adjacent do. Word of Jim every eldest of a fae species has a mantle mind you plenty of those probably aren't very important mantles. There are probably near countless mantles in the world really even if effectively there are a lot less.
I think we've also learned that immortal beings can come out during Halloween for various benefits some including mantle taking stuff right?
I think we've also learned that immortal beings can come out during Halloween for various benefits some including mantle taking stuff right?
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Xexilf
Oblivion Sempiternum Daemonis
Yes. Halloween isnt just "they can die" its a more general "they can change". So while under normal conditions they cant die, take permanent damage or lose power, they cant really gain power or otherwise permanently improve either, unless they do it on halloween or other such thing. Meaning many are active there, despite the threat, to feed/steal power/etc.