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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DragonParadox said:
Actually thinking about it theoretical advancement in a field would have to be science, academics is for knowing things that had already been discovered.
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Is there any mechanical interaction here? Seems like the kind of thing where one skill should influence another's function.

Like rolling academics to figure out what's been done already and getting a difficulty or dice pool size modification to the science roll based on the result. Maybe something more punishing like requiring academics of a certain level to try certain things in the first place depending on the design goal of the system.

I'm still trying to get a grip on how multi step processes are managed under this system, so I'm not sure if that's already accounted for somewhere.
 
DragonParadox said:
Actually thinking about it theoretical advancement in a field would have to be science, academics is for knowing things that had already been discovered.
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The issue here is that one os impossible without the other. "Standing on the shoulders of giants" is a proverb for a reason. It's a bit of a system issue, I think.

It would probably be a multistep process. Int+Academics to review the current state of research, and int+science to advance it. With the first roll affecting the difficulty and/or the successes needed for the second one.

Academics would probably also partially cover stuff like thesis and scientific paper writing. Interacting with academics.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Is there any mechanical interaction here? Seems like the kind of thing where one skill should influence another's function.

Like rolling academics to figure out what's been done already and getting a difficulty or dice pool size modification to the science roll based on the result. Maybe something more punishing like requiring academics of a certain level to try certain things in the first place depending on the design goal of the system.

I'm still trying to get a grip on how multi step processes are managed under this system, so I'm not sure if that's already accounted for somewhere.
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Yog said:
The issue here is that one os impossible without the other. "Standing on the shoulders of giants" is a proverb for a reason. It's a bit of a system issue, I think.

It would probably be a multistep process. Int+Academics to review the current state of research, and int+science to advance it. With the first roll affecting the difficulty and/or the successes needed for the second one.

Academics would probably also partially cover stuff like thesis and scientific paper writing. Interacting with academics.
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That is a fair point, in a meta sense I think is may just be that the skill distribution was never meant to model 'how to we expand the borders of theoretical physics?'. In character yeah you would need high academics rolls to know where to start and then science and probably technology as well to run the experiments with crafting at the end to make the finished proof of concept.
 
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DragonParadox said:
That is a fair point, in a beta sense I think is may just be that the skill distribution was never meant to model 'how to we expand the borders of theoretical physics?'. In character yeah you would need high academics rolls to know where to start and then science and probably technology as well to run the experiments with crafting at the end to make the finished proof of concept.
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You'd probably need multiple rolls, including technology to build your supercomputer and science to program it. Even with a ten fold speed up for writing software, tis is something that we'd really want to outsource to an Earth sized technological hell with superhuman devils who have their own magic to help them build on our insights.

I wonder if we can use the Crown on questions about fundamental physics to give us a headstart.
 
Alratan said:
You'd probably need multiple rolls, including technology to build your supercomputer and science to program it. Even with a ten fold speed up for writing software, tis is something that we'd really want to outsource to an Earth sized technological hell with superhuman devils who have their own magic to help them build on our insights.

I wonder if we can use the Crown on questions about fundamental physics to give us a headstart.
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Supercomputer is a tool. We would just use ttc to make it. It's a really versatile tool
 
Prospalz said:
Aside from "Look in the mirror, ask about Exaltations and Age of Sorrow" I don't think there are really any limitations for Crown-use.
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I think that there was a ruling that in the case of questions that would require extended research rolls, like "what is a proof of P=NP" or "how to make a working fusion reactor" for knowledge that genuinely doesn't exist, the exaltation would default to giving us a location of someone / something capable of doing the research. Perhaps a genius type magical talent / demon / spirit of technology.

This is basically the plan I have for looking for Autochtonia's ruins. Look at some wonder, like the Outer Gates, and ask something like "how do I learn to make stuff like this". Or look at a genuine immortal and ask "how can I learn to make weapons to kill beings like that"
 
Artemis1992 said:
Where's the line between Academics and Science in there?
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DragonParadox said:
Actually thinking about it theoretical advancement in a field would have to be science, academics is for knowing things that had already been discovered.
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Academics is humanities. Science is science.
I quote:




Academics

This catchall Knowledge covers the character's erudition in the humanities: literature, history, art, philosophy, and other "liberal" arts and sciences. A character with dots in Academics is generally well rounded in these fields, and at high levels may be considered an expert in one or more areas of study.
If you like, you can choose a specialty for Academics even at less than 4 dots.
•Student: You're aware that 1066 isn't a Beverly Hills area code.
••College: You can quote from the classics, identify major cultural movements, and expound on the difference between Ming and Moghul.
•••Masters: You could get a paper published in a scholarly journal.
••••Doctorate: Professor emeritus
•••••Scholar: Scholars worldwide acknowledge you as one of the foremost experts of your time.
Possessed by: Professors, Literati, Topical Bloggers
Specialties: Poststructuralism, Impressionist Painting, Imperial Rome, Color Theory, Linguistics
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Science

You have at least a basic understanding of most of the physical sciences, such as chemistry, biology, physics, and geology. This Knowledge can be put to all forms of practical use. In most cases, a player should select a specialty to reflect a focus for her character's scientific studies, but this isn't strictly necessary.
•Student: You know most of the highschool basics.
••College: You're familiar with the major theories.
•••Masters: You could teach high-school science.
••••Doctorate: You're fully capable of advancing the knowledge in your field.
•••••Scholar: Your Nobel Prize is waiting for you.
Possessed by: Scientists, Students, Researchers, Teachers, Engineers, Technicians, Pilots
Specialties: Chemistry, Biology, Geology, Physics, Astronomy
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Technology

The Technology Knowledge represents a broad acumen with electronics, computer hardware, and devices more elaborate than "machines," which fall under the Crafts Skill. If it has a processor, a transistor, or an integrated circuit — if it's electronic rather than electrical — manipulating it uses the Technology Knowledge.
This is the wide-ranging Ability used to build one's own computer, install (or subvert) a security system, repair a mobile phone, or kitbash a shortwave radio. You must always choose a specialization in Technology, even though you possess some skill in multiple fields.
•Student: You can perform simple modifications or repairs.
••College: You could make your living in assembly or repair.
•••Masters: You can design new technologies from a set of objective requirements.
••••Doctorate: For you, it's not, "Can this be done?" but "How can this be done?"
•••••Scholar: A visionary in the field; you shape how people interact with their world through devices.
Possessed by: Engineers, Scientists, Defense Contractors, the Cable Guy
Specialties: Telecom, Computers, Security, Communications, Improvised Solutions, Industrial Espionage
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Messing around on the frontiers of knowledge and advancing our knowledge of physical laws is Science 4 or Science 5.

Lydia has Academics 3: that means she's good enough to submit scholarly papers in the humanities and have them accepted and published by reputable journals in the fields. Doctorate level knowledge.
She also has Science 1: Her science knowledge is at high school level.
At 15, she'd be a prodigy at history/linguistics/philosophy et cetera, good enough to get into a university liberal arts program at like 16, but merely okay at stuff like math and physics for her age.

Molly has Academics 1: her humanities knowledge is at high school level, which is about average/a little lower for someone entering final year of high school. She also has Science 0: Abysmal at math, biology, geology etc. Given her Intelligence 4, that means her teachers keep writing stuff like "Carpenter could apply herself much better" on her report cards.

Hope that helps.
 
uju32 said:
Messing around on the frontiers of knowledge and advancing our knowledge of physical laws is Science 4 or Science 5.
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Or an excellency and a lot of brute computing force. That's the beauty of the modern first principle calculations. Well, the beauty and despair, really. You don't actually need to know a lot. Like, we did this back in high school - modeling stuff an the atomic level. And no, we weren't very knowledgeable. If you know (this is the stuff that is kinda advanced / requires you to look it up / requires having a teacher) one or two equation, more specifically the particle interaction potential (example), and a numerical differential equation solution algorithm (example), than the only thing limiting you is the processing power. The era where you advanced physics by analytically computing very complex integrals by creating new and beautiful mathematical proofs is over (anecdotally - the USA overcame USSR when the computational methods advanced enough that computational approach to engineering design won over beautiful but hard to make analytical expressions, according to both Russian and USA professors I have talked to).

Molly is in a rather unique situation here, I feel (well, she's an exalt, that's expected). I would say that to breach into making stuff like quantum wormhole diamond lattices (or, more realistically, some sort of optical computing), she'd need science 1 (maybe 2), computers 2, craft 5 (and a lot of bonuses on top of that), and a mentor / someone qualified to give her data to crunch. Science 1 to understand the basics of the math involved, computers 2 to write a code that would brute force calculate the arrangements of atoms that would produce the results needed, and craft 5 to make it happen. And a hell of a lot of successes.

uju32 said:
Hope that helps.
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Yes, thank you very much, it helps a lot.

Also, incidentally, this means that we'll probably need to choose which track to pursue - Academics of Science. I am personally for Science (Molly is the only wonder maker available, no one else can pick up the slack here), but I recognize that as a future head of state, she'd want Academics at high level.
 
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Yog said:
Yes, thank you very much, it helps a lot.

Also, incidentally, this means that we'll probably need to choose which track to pursue - Academics of Science. I am personally for Science (Molly is the only wonder maker available, no one else can pick up the slack here), but I recognize that as a future head of state, she'd want Academics at high level.
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I would vote for Science.

We have minions and allies for Academics.
 
Yog said:
Or an excellency and a lot of brute computing force.
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Oh, an Excellency will help.
But thats basically going to look more like Molly working things out from first principles every time, rather than already having a reasonable base of knowledge in the subject.

Yog said:
Yes, thank you very much, it helps a lot.

Also, incidentally, this means that we'll probably need to choose which track to pursue - Academics of Science. I am personally for Science (Molly is the only wonder maker available, no one else can pick up the slack here), but I recognize that as a future head of state, she'd want Academics at high level.
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Lydia is probably Academics 5, Science/Technology 2-4.
She has an Intelligence Excellency, so she's good there.

Molly is more likely to be aiming for Academics 3-4, Science/Technology 4-5, Craft 5.
Plus Excellencies.
More expensive to achieve, but necessary. Gonna need Academics and Science at 2 or 3 when school reopens.
 
Goldfish said:
I would vote for Science.

We have minions and allies for Academics.
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Cyberdevils background does rather lend itself to Science, doesn't it? And hell, the innovative startup decision can be leveraged here. We could quite easily participate in Intel ISEF, or some other, less prestigious science fair. That would get us some scholarships and ease the entry into a university. Mostly, it would be useful for social reasons, I think - we probably would want to recruit at least some smart guys to do tech background for us. And at least some of them might be supernaturals themselves.
 
[X] Yog

DragonParadox said:
Sweating a sheen of unholy brass wrought from the fires of their Essence the Infernal transmutes her form to more than human resilience, able to shake off even more punishment.
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DragonParadox said:
• All rolls made while the Infernal is wet (whether that means she's standing in the rain, submerged in water, has just stepped out of the shower, or has just upended a bottle of water over her head) are made at –1 difficulty.
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Munchkin question:
Since we are sweating brass, is it wet enough to trigger BSM? :p
 
[X] Give her a 'spirit assistant' and ask her to come to you before she does something this drastic next time
-[X]Stunt: "Don't take moral advice from it. They generally mean well, but they don't have any sort of instinctal moral compass."

Or if they do it's magnetized towards Molly's interests.
 
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fictionfan said:
[X] Give her a 'spirit assistant' and ask her to come to you before she does something this drastic next time
-[X]Stunt: "Don't take moral advice from it. They generally mean well, but they don't have any sort of instinctal moral compass."

Or if they do it's magnetized towards Molly's interests.
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That's a good point.

Everyone, please note that I am adding "Just don'tuse them as a moral compass" at the end of my stunt.
 
I can imagine Thomas asks some sort of moral question maybe about feeding and gets this response.

"Molly has given a general advisory about the use of Cyberdevils for her allies" The voice changes to Molly's voice "Don't take moral advice from them. They generally mean well, but they don't have any sort of instinctual moral compass. At best they can act as a sounding board and let you know if you are being internally inconsistent."
 
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