I am of the opinion that another candidate might be behind the chaos orcs in bretonnia, it just sounds like something they would do.we really got to keep that lead up too so if anyone want us to go more adventures in the future we go to do cause the last 3(excluding book finding one) had us get rid of a everchosen canidate got to keep our lead going!
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- A Pit Of My Own Making
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Tzeentch, Tzeentch's Demons, same thing at the end of the day.
AzrielIlluminare
Mothman Cultist
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Because the plan is "Hey if you were Everchosen and betrayed the Gods, they'd let you have this world just saying, but if it's not you, then a bunch of people are going to die. LOL nice hat bye." And telling a paranoid Grey Wizard about other 'potential candidates' is literally Birb Boy trying to get Mathilde to be even more paranoid, or to do something unwise.
Plus, they always tell Everchosen candidates about the competition, it's part of the fun after all. Remember the Dark Gods and their servants do things for entertainment purposes too, even if it seems illogical. These are basically Eldritch Gods expecting things to make sense is... well unwise?
Not the case, I believe. Tzeentch's plotting against himself it represented by his Greater Daemons plotting against each other, not by them each individually self-sabotaging.
Do they? Do you think Drycha, Alric, and Egrimm had been told prior to their disqualification? CLan Mors' warlords prior to theirs'?
Yes, including by being nice to them so they were disqualified. For all Mathilde knows by her work to make the world a better plance she's diverted multiple potential Everchosen from the path that would lead them to falling to Chaos by making their lives just enough better.
Knowing she can disqualify potential candidates by doing good deeds hardly says she has a leg up as you suggest.
Boney literally told us it was the downside of telling them in the last update:
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[X] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
Attempting to extract value out of the words of a greater demon of the most powerful precognitive entity in existence that also hates us and is the god of lying and fucking up people in the future is an absurd idea. The only thing we can be sure of is that it believed giving us information would be worse for us than not giving us information. Thus: Do not act on the information in any way, shape, or form.
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
Attempting to extract value out of the words of a greater demon of the most powerful precognitive entity in existence that also hates us and is the god of lying and fucking up people in the future is an absurd idea. The only thing we can be sure of is that it believed giving us information would be worse for us than not giving us information. Thus: Do not act on the information in any way, shape, or form.
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
In both cases, the worst that can reasonably happen is people being dissappointed in Mathilde, and probably not even that, given 'miscasts are all but inevitable when you're dealing with magic, and sometimes they involve Daemons showing up' is something already known to both Kragg, Belegar and literally anyone ranking above Apprentice in the Colleges including Algard. I really don't think they're going to do anything about the Project, especially not when it's giving encouraging results even without counting the benefits from the newly-established trade.
Considering that, there's no point in hiding this from them: reporting a possible security breach (in Belegar's case) is something that Mathilde should do, regardless of how unlikely it is to be exploited by our enemies, and is in fact her duty not just as Loremaster but also as a K8P citizen to do so; a Greater Daemon contact (in Algard's case) is also something that Matty probably should report, especially if Algard is (understandably) suspicious about AV when we drop it on him so if he ever found out that 'yes, I did talk with a Greater Daemon not too long ago and didn't tell anyone but it's got nothing to do with this, I promise, I'm still totally trustworthy', then Mathilde would have to answer a lot of uncomfortable questions that would be preempted by just telling him what just happened straight up.
The Everchosen stuff isn't that relevant so there wouldn't be any issue with just not mentioning it; and if we tell them about the Daemon we'll also tell them about the possible Everchosen by default, so mentioning the job offer gives no real benefit for anyone on our side (and might result in negative consequences for Matty herself); therefore, I'm not really in favor of doing so.
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
In both cases, the worst that can reasonably happen is people being dissappointed in Mathilde, and probably not even that, given 'miscasts are all but inevitable when you're dealing with magic, and sometimes they involve Daemons showing up' is something already known to both Kragg, Belegar and literally anyone ranking above Apprentice in the Colleges including Algard. I really don't think they're going to do anything about the Project, especially not when it's giving encouraging results even without counting the benefits from the newly-established trade.
Considering that, there's no point in hiding this from them: reporting a possible security breach (in Belegar's case) is something that Mathilde should do, regardless of how unlikely it is to be exploited by our enemies, and is in fact her duty not just as Loremaster but also as a K8P citizen to do so; a Greater Daemon contact (in Algard's case) is also something that Matty probably should report, especially if Algard is (understandably) suspicious about AV when we drop it on him so if he ever found out that 'yes, I did talk with a Greater Daemon not too long ago and didn't tell anyone but it's got nothing to do with this, I promise, I'm still totally trustworthy', then Mathilde would have to answer a lot of uncomfortable questions that would be preempted by just telling him what just happened straight up.
The Everchosen stuff isn't that relevant so there wouldn't be any issue with just not mentioning it; and if we tell them about the Daemon we'll also tell them about the possible Everchosen by default, so mentioning the job offer gives no real benefit for anyone on our side (and might result in negative consequences for Matty herself); therefore, I'm not really in favor of doing so.
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"An erosion of trust and repute" built over "30 years" of hard work. Because of a miscast, where she took every reasonable safety precaution and a few unreasonable ones. I think this is one case where the narration is overstating the consequences. Mathilde is a wizard. Miscasts are inevitable. If anything, it's kinda impressive that in her 30 year career, her worst miscast is a phone call from a smug bird.
To quote Kragg: "Your magic has betrayed you before, and it'll betray you again". But he chose to trust us anyway.
- Location
- Earth
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
She has a leg up because the 4 want her.
The 4 would love to get Mathilde willingly in their service. She already has "unofficially" joined the competition and taken on more candidate (directly or indirectly) then anyone else. Showing her this is a way to say "see how easy it was, how you can become the chosen even while doing your "good" deeds. You just need to accept and then you can protect them all."
The Four want all the potential candidates. That's why they're candidates. The daemon just claimed that those they stopped wanting were disqualified.
Boney literally told us the lost of trust may be irrevocable and impossible to recover from. It may be recoverable. It may not be. I just wasn't a possibility was the loss of trust. That's inevitable.
It screwing the Waystone project was explicitly mentioned as a possibility.
It's not just a miscast. If it was then Mathilde wouldn't need to tell anyone. The only reason to share this with her peers is if they need to take action because of it. This is Mathilde deciding that her peers can no longer trust her as much because of what happened and warning them not to.
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Yes, but it's a miscast involving AV and it has not been working for them for 30 years. They could for instance refuse to ever use the Orbs which might lose any number of future wars. Hell we know OOC that the demon was probably telling the truth, but as far as Mathilde knows the reason the demon showed up could be as easy as not wanting AV to be trusted the Empire to have many more major magical weapons.
AzrielIlluminare
Mothman Cultist
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That's what Mathilde thinks will happen, that doesn't mean it will happen.
She also says this. The MC having some thoughts of potential ramifications shouldn't be used as a WOG, because it's not, its Mathilde being paranoid and thinking of worst-case scenarios. It could potentially go bad for Mathilde to tell people; it doesn't mean it will.
If we choose to tell them about the candidacy they might decide to kill us, that too was mentioned explicitly and... yeah I would call that an irrecoverable loss of trust on both sides even.
Might make for a fun turn in the quest if we survive comparable to the Sylvania to K8P turn.
If they decide to kill us that they are not the people we thought they were and we probably can get sanctuary with the dwarfs.If we choose to tell them about the candidacy they might decide to kill us, that too was mentioned explicitly and... yeah I would call that an irrecoverable loss of trust on both sides even.
Might make for a fun turn in the quest if we survive comparable to the Sylvania to K8P turn.
[X] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
There is 0 reason to disclose anything to anyone. But it seems like my vote won't matter anyway with how people are willing to shout things from the rooftops
I do hope that QM will let us face the consequences if disclosing wins. People need to realize that we are living in a deathworld, not in my little pony.
[X] [COLLEGE] Nothing
There is 0 reason to disclose anything to anyone. But it seems like my vote won't matter anyway with how people are willing to shout things from the rooftops
I do hope that QM will let us face the consequences if disclosing wins. People need to realize that we are living in a deathworld, not in my little pony.
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Mathilde does know these people IC though, it might not be the GM revealing the mind of Algar and Belegar, but it is what Mathilde Webber from all her interactions with these people over decades thinks could happen.
I dont see any positive in telling the colleges. As a baseline grey wizard were more or less expected to keep secrets as long as it isnt more useful to the empire to share them. We didnt tell them we skimmed of the top in Stirland. We didnt tell them of a lot of other stuff thats just not useful for them to know. If we go and tell them of this thats less "thought you should know", more "please keep an eye on me, I could get chaos infection". Because thats the only case where its a net positive for them to know. Im actually for dropping the info about the Everchosen on them.
I also dont see any special reason for Belegar to know, its basically what you sign up for when you invite wizards into your house. More or less even a milder version of it. We could have spawned a bunch of demons and then died to them. But Im not as opposed to just telling him. For the same reason. Its what he signed up for.
[x] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[x] [COLLEGE] Nothing
[x] [COLLEGE] Incoming Everchosen
I also dont see any special reason for Belegar to know, its basically what you sign up for when you invite wizards into your house. More or less even a milder version of it. We could have spawned a bunch of demons and then died to them. But Im not as opposed to just telling him. For the same reason. Its what he signed up for.
[x] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[x] [COLLEGE] Nothing
[x] [COLLEGE] Incoming Everchosen
Note again that the issue here isn't just Mathilde having a miscast. It's that Mathilde has decided that the miscast is sufficiently important that the College needs to know about it. The only reason the College needs to know about it is if the College needs to act on that knowledge. That's how information security works.
This wouldn't be Mathilde being upfront and honest and College unfairly making an issue with it. This would be Mathilde making the judgement that she can't be trusted to handle this and the College needs to take steps to manage the situation in future. She's basically telling them that she's potentially compromised and asking them to trust her less in future.
If she was confident that she wasn't compromised, the correct thing for a Grey Lord Magister to do is not tell anyone, as they don't need to know, and principle is to by default not to share information.
No longer being as trusted is the whole reason to tell them, not an unfortunate side effect that may or may not happen.
This wouldn't be Mathilde being upfront and honest and College unfairly making an issue with it. This would be Mathilde making the judgement that she can't be trusted to handle this and the College needs to take steps to manage the situation in future. She's basically telling them that she's potentially compromised and asking them to trust her less in future.
If she was confident that she wasn't compromised, the correct thing for a Grey Lord Magister to do is not tell anyone, as they don't need to know, and principle is to by default not to share information.
No longer being as trusted is the whole reason to tell them, not an unfortunate side effect that may or may not happen.
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The thought occurred to Mathilde, they would very much be the people she thought they were, just not the optimistic version.
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
We can disclose everything but Mathilde's candidacy, because none of it really is a big deal.
Deamons manifesting is part of magic research in Warhammer, and the weakened veil in a portion of the lab, is probably less worrying then the areas of the Karak where the Skaven used so much warpstone to try and bust vaults, that corpses started getting back up with only ambiant energy.
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
We can disclose everything but Mathilde's candidacy, because none of it really is a big deal.
Deamons manifesting is part of magic research in Warhammer, and the weakened veil in a portion of the lab, is probably less worrying then the areas of the Karak where the Skaven used so much warpstone to try and bust vaults, that corpses started getting back up with only ambiant energy.
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So, one of the ideas floating around underlying the "do nothing" stance seems to be the idea that any action Mathilde takes will be furthering the ends/plans of Tzeentch and/or Birdboi. This has to be rejected. (Because accepting it is accepting their Big Lie - that they are powerful/knowledgeable enough to make any action against them pointless.)
So, I don't think it's worthwhile telling Belegar about the weakening - it should heal quickly enough, but telling him "hey, there's a Lord of Change that thinks I'm interesting, but I doubt it will do much right now" is probably worthwhile.
Likewise, we should absolutely report the attempt to steal Mathilde's hat to the College.
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
[jk] [COLLEGE] Everchosen, Daemon, and atttempt to steal Mathilde's hat
So, I don't think it's worthwhile telling Belegar about the weakening - it should heal quickly enough, but telling him "hey, there's a Lord of Change that thinks I'm interesting, but I doubt it will do much right now" is probably worthwhile.
Likewise, we should absolutely report the attempt to steal Mathilde's hat to the College.
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
[jk] [COLLEGE] Everchosen, Daemon, and atttempt to steal Mathilde's hat
If it wasn't a big deal Mathilde wouldn't need to report herself to the Grey College. If you think that the right reaction is to say nothing about it.
It's only if it is a big deal that Mathilde needs to turn herself in over it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [BELEGAR] Daemon and weakening
Not telling the king about the weakening supposes that we won't want his support on developing precautions against it, or around future experiments of the same type. I personally venture that we very much want that support, all our best precautions came from Kragg. So there's just no point in leaving him out on that.
You know, separate from Belegar being a bro.
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon
Not telling the king about the weakening supposes that we won't want his support on developing precautions against it, or around future experiments of the same type. I personally venture that we very much want that support, all our best precautions came from Kragg. So there's just no point in leaving him out on that.
You know, separate from Belegar being a bro.
[X] [COLLEGE] Everchosen and Greater Daemon