- Pronouns
- He/They
[X]Plan The Carpenter In Iron and Brass.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
C'mon man, its a friendly discussion. No acrimony here.
We're both, the players and the QM, feeling our way into this, because its a new homebrew in a third party setting
There will be a certain amount of experimentation, and give and take as we figure out what works, and a lot of it boils down to judgement calls. When the GM makes a firm decision, we take it in good faith.
Of course, there's the Exalted discussion, but Ex players like to complain about system balance.
Its traditional.
Thank you for the clarification.
Thats allows you talk at people.
A charm that makes people bleed from the eyes doesnt promote communication.
Especially as you cant exactly afford to spend Essence to spare ppl damage.
At least we have Hollow Mind Curse
We can have the demon in the phone access language dictionaries and translate.
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Our next point buy should probably delve into some of those utility charms a bit.
Personally, I think we should buy this as soon as we can:
Etiquette is a key ability for us, so we could feasibly roll high enough on the check with excellency to be functionally unnoticeable most everyone. We could stab people in the streets and only those in the upper end of the willpower bell curve are even allowed to roll to notice.
I see nothing that says we can't use it while fighting either, and mooks probably don't have good willpower to begin with. No need to soak gunshots if you have to be mid tier wizard level stubborn to acknowledge we exist and are gutting your friends.
- Location
- Germany
Sorry, but I've heard these discussions before and in ASWAH they ended up with a very overpowered PrC for the protagonist and more for the party.
Which in turn made building enemies that actually felt dangerous problematic.
But that is years ago and I can hope DP has a better eye for balance by now.
The bit on on pp276 about multiple opponents says that for every opponent you face after the first (up to 4) you receive a +1 difficulty penalty to attack and defense. So if you were facing 5 enemies simultaneously every attack and defense roll would be at Difficulty 10 (assuming the base 6) or basically impossible.
That is what Exalted ignore.
As for blocking/dodging/parrying; V20 is quite clear on this. After rolling for initiative you declare your Action (in reverse order of initiative) before anyone actually starts rolling. At this point you can chose any Combat Maneuver including a Defensive Maneuver like Dodging. Later on you can abort your current action (like say attacking the enemy) before an enemy rolls their attack roll to perform a Defensive Maneuver (Blocking, Parrying, or Dodging) if you either roll Willpower or spend 1 Temporary Willpower so long as you still have at least one Action remaining.
So the general intention here is that you can either attack or defend yourself. If you chose to attack then you basically have to rely on either your enemy missing or being able to Soak all the damage they do. Unless of course you chose to perform Multiple Actions which you also have to declare during the Initiative phase.
The Exalted vs. WoD book changes things up by removing declaring actions and instead just having players act when it is their turn in the Initiative order. Other then that you still need to take Multiple Actions to defend at all. In a way this is actually worse since if you are facing multiple mooks with (presumably) lower Initiative you'd have to preemptively take out Multiple Actions to defend against them.
Oh there is also the option of going Full Defensive but given that you can't perform any Action other then defending (but you can defend against everyone attacking) so it is really only good for Moving (not Running since that takes an Action) towards or away from an enemy.
Anyways the long and short of it is that the system is quite clearly built around the expectation that fighting multiple enemies simultaneously is a bad idea unless you are powerful enough to just Soak or Heal any damage they deal faster then they can deal it.
As a general rule, the holes in the Infernal kit would be pretty reasonably easy to patch with custom charms. God knows, there is enough fluff justification to make almost anything while still staying true to the themes.
But Molly is a E2 newbie Infernal, and customs charms are currently off the table. Alas.
But Molly is a E2 newbie Infernal, and customs charms are currently off the table. Alas.
You could just restat the atompunk version of that Devil Tyrant Shintai I wrote like @Artemis1992 did. Make it a 12 ft giant and it qualifies, or do that and make the suit empty if you want to be strict about it.
Comparing Infernals to Abyssals is pointless, because Abyssals still face severe restrictions from the Nameless Curse, which prohibits saying or acknowledging ANY name as their own, or saving the lives of the living, and is generally hilariously worse than an Infernal's Urge. If Molly was an Abyssal her life would really be in tatters now.
As you said, VEE is better than anything Solars or Lunars have.
Key to the Kingdom is also largely better as an Excellency than what Solar and Lunars have. In theory Solar can buy up a half dozen charms to match it, but practically speaking Infernals get it cheap and easy with every Key ability on first purchase.
Charred Sinner Renewal is hilariously easy essence renewal and healing... And there are things that Solars don't get which Infernals do, like in-combat healing via Digesting The Great Beast. All Things Betray is flatly better than Sensory Acuity Prana because of the initiative boost, and while it costs an Essence it's also reflexive as opposed to requiring a turn of concentration to wind up. Lots of things like that.
In general, while Abyssals might be able to do things like Chirality Prohibition Index and similar creating, binding, and empowering creatures of darkness - Solar and Lunars can't do that stuff. But Abyssals, as mentioned above, just kinda suck. The best Solar get for creature stuff is 'Wholeness-Restoring Meditation' which takes hours of surgery and has a solid chance to fail or kill someone. As opposed to an Infernals 'Lemme give you a kiss. Okay, you're a fomori now. Just give it a few minutes.'
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Each caste has an excellency charm that covers their own core abilities though, and gets all of them with the first purchase as long as they're buying the one from their caste charm list.
It's not as good as picking each one as we please, but it still covers what should be the key abilities for a solar of a given caste.
Infernals do have some good esoteric effects though, so I'm not going to flatly disagree with your point, but the excellency thing is inaccurate.
...I mean, yeah, if you've resigned yourself to 'I'm A Dawn Caste, I don't need subterfuge or crafting or empathy' I guess that's okay?
Or if you're lucky enough to be a Night Caste who likes guns and has no interest in tech or crafting and is a pathological liar - their Excellency is pretty good. Otherwise I'd say yeah, one Infernal charm that does what you'd need conservatively three or four Solar charms for is by definition better.
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Honestly I think this is actually a pretty weak ability comparatively speaking. Under normal circumstances we have a base Difficulty of 6 and so can take a maximum of 3 actions (Action 1: +1 -> 7, Action 2: +2 -> 8, Action 3: +3 -> 9). Even if I'm reading that wrong and it applies starting the second action (in which case we get 4 before hitting 9) it doesn't really change the situation; our Dicepool is fine.
Lets imagine Molly decided to Attack (Dex + Melee) once and Parry (Dex + Melee) twice. She has a dicepool of 13 in her Shintai which goes up to 21 with her Excellency. Thus her actions would have 12/20, 11/19, and 10/18 dice respectively which are pretty large pools. In fact the last (10 base, 18 Excellency) is higher then what she can do outside her Shintai even as a single Action.
So the dicepool penalty isn't really a big deal. The big deal is the difficulty increases. Going from Difficulty 6 to 7 for example drops our average success rate on 20 dice from 11 to 8.8 or -3.2 successes. A lost die meanwhile only represents ~0.5 successes at best with that value decreasing with each increase in Difficulty.
I'll just use it then, if you don't mind.
The Empress carries glory and terror about herself like a cloak. Her form tells the story of a war that should never have been, and the world she might yet create from it's ashes.
Her armor is a dull brass; weathered and scoured, but unbroken. Each mark subtly intersects with the others to form subtle signs, extolling her glories and world spanning will in ancient tongues for those with the eyes to see.
The armor itself speaks of terrible power and endless durability; thick plates cover the entirety of her body, with subtle hints at machinery and stranger things at the joints and seams.
At the center of the chest plate sits a diamond the size of two fists, bound in what appears to be a jeweler's cage patterned after a gyroscope. At it's heart, a virulent green ember burns.
As the infernal exerts herself the gem begins to turn, and the fire inside brighten in feverish pulses. When she has spent at least three essence the growing flame ignites into a caged star, at times almost appearing to be a slitted eye past the glare.
Just above, her helmeted head displays a carving of the infernal's face. An older, more hardened, vision of herself, but one that's still clearly recognizable; a single scar marks her visage, but no two viewers see the same one.
In her right hand she holds a sword of gleaming brass, as glorious and whole as the day she first drew it. The only sign of its long service a small charm hanging from the hilt; a simple wooden cross, no more finely made than might be done with mortal hands.
Transformation:
The infernal stands, squares her shoulders, and seems to shudder under a great weight.
Flickering lines of green light appear over her body; leaving behind the scars of battles not yet fought, and bringing the power of their victories with them.
Between one breath and the next the infernal assumes her full Shintai state, as if it was less a transformation and more a revelation of form.
Her armor is a dull brass; weathered and scoured, but unbroken. Each mark subtly intersects with the others to form subtle signs, extolling her glories and world spanning will in ancient tongues for those with the eyes to see.
The armor itself speaks of terrible power and endless durability; thick plates cover the entirety of her body, with subtle hints at machinery and stranger things at the joints and seams.
At the center of the chest plate sits a diamond the size of two fists, bound in what appears to be a jeweler's cage patterned after a gyroscope. At it's heart, a virulent green ember burns.
As the infernal exerts herself the gem begins to turn, and the fire inside brighten in feverish pulses. When she has spent at least three essence the growing flame ignites into a caged star, at times almost appearing to be a slitted eye past the glare.
Just above, her helmeted head displays a carving of the infernal's face. An older, more hardened, vision of herself, but one that's still clearly recognizable; a single scar marks her visage, but no two viewers see the same one.
In her right hand she holds a sword of gleaming brass, as glorious and whole as the day she first drew it. The only sign of its long service a small charm hanging from the hilt; a simple wooden cross, no more finely made than might be done with mortal hands.
Transformation:
The infernal stands, squares her shoulders, and seems to shudder under a great weight.
Flickering lines of green light appear over her body; leaving behind the scars of battles not yet fought, and bringing the power of their victories with them.
Between one breath and the next the infernal assumes her full Shintai state, as if it was less a transformation and more a revelation of form.
[X] Empress of the Final War and Thereafter
-[X] Demon Emperor Shintai Strength +4, Dexterity +0, Stamina +5, Appearance 0
-[X] Hardened Devil Body x2
-[X] Demon Armorx2
This form adds two dice to all soak rolls, and reduces the difficulty of soak rolls by one.
This just goes full on in soak and health. Due to the size, and mostly due less Aspects to use, Swift Stride can be put into Rage Recast at E3, as it'll be more useful there anyway.
This will net a Soak of 14 before VLE, and 24 with VLE, plus Scar Writ to reduce soak diff by one more.
Splattered Grease from Boiling Oil would be horrifically effective with this.
I was tempted to go for 2 more STR in my madness, but I restrained myself from actually lowering Dex.
Edit: Later Unbound Eschaton adds 3 to all physical attributes.
This would raise STA by 3 for 3 more soak, raise VLE soak by 3 for 6 extra soak.
32 Soak for Final Form, with more Aspects to buy too.
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- Location
- Germany
[X] The Light that shines at the World's End
[X] The Glorious Apocalypse Princess
[X] The Glorious Apocalypse Princess
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Note that I was only a sporadic reader, but ASWAH ran for five years and over 17,000 pages.
You expect with a longrunning game a certain amount of power creep, especially when running on something like DnD 3.5 where late level PCs are frankly more powerful than any insetting gpds.
We're an Infernal, but still a moderately sized fish in a very big ocean in this setting.
There's hard caps, and a lot of significant players.
That sort of escalation is a ways off.
Thank you.
This was useful since I only started looking up the mechanics for V20 and M20 when this quest started.
Supernal Final Ray of Light gives them a superform with +3 to all Attributes for a scene.
Charred Sinner Renewal = Body Mending Meditation.
I would arguee that SAP is better than All Things Betray based on the fluff.
VEE is easier to spam, but You Can Be More can make people Awaken into Mages.
Phoenix Renewal Crucible allows Solars to bring people back to life.
/exalted balance arguments
Okay, Solars win at everything Charm wise.
Awakening people is like Spirit or Prime Sphere 8 or 9 if I recall correctly.
- Location
- Germany
Okay, I found the rule for multiple actions:
And only one action can be an attack.
But!
Multiple actions can be parries, there's nothing said against that.
And with our shield, the parry-difficulty starts at 4.
So we can make one good attack and then several good parries, up to 5, though the last would have difficulty 9.
That makes the multi-arms relevant in my opinion, as those multiple parries would loose a lot of dice cumulativly.
So, all actions take a penalty, the first one only a small one though.
And only one action can be an attack.
But!
Multiple actions can be parries, there's nothing said against that.
And with our shield, the parry-difficulty starts at 4.
So we can make one good attack and then several good parries, up to 5, though the last would have difficulty 9.
That makes the multi-arms relevant in my opinion, as those multiple parries would loose a lot of dice cumulativly.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
I hope you do not mind if I take this up.
The Light that shines at the World's End
Appearance:
The Nightmare Clad in Radiant Steel is a figure of great fear and respect. Born from the fires of Armageddon, the enigmatic figure represents both the horror of Long Night as well as the hope of tomorrow.
She, for she is undoubtedly a woman, is clad in the armor forged from tarnished Brass and Steel. In all appearance, the armor appears to be cracked and worn, showing signs of great and terrible battles fought, yet carries the same with a noble grace.
At the core of the Armor is the Green Iron Heart, that beats with an Atomic Glow, the lights of which shine forth from three slits on the center of the chest. A funnel lies at the back, spewing radiant ash, a hint of the nightmares to come.
The Steel that makes up the armor is no less impressive. Any damage done immediately regenerates as if the armor is alive. So one would wonder just what the Armor withstood to have visible scars that did not heal like most of the attacks it withstood.
She wears the helm of Ruin and Glory. The slits on both sides seperate and different, one forever said to be looking at the past while one sees the future. A lesson to be learned that one should always learn from the past so that they may work to a better future.
But despite her fearsome appearance, she is a fine Knight indeed, tempering indifference with Compassion, doubt with conviction, indulgence with temperance and fear with Valor. For she and she alone represents the doom at the end of the age and the coming dawn.
For she is the light that shines at the world's end. The dream of tomorrow. The hope of Salvation, if clad in Green Radiance. For she alone took in the Nuclear light of Annihilation and crafted a new age from it.
Transformation:
For there stands the The Nightmare Clad in Radiant Steel. For there the Nightmare ends. Yet it is not to be. In the face of doubt and uncertainty, the Nightmare need only remember that hers is the only opinion that matters. For it is inconceivable that another can bring low the Nightmare.
The shock of the act of hearsay causes a transformation most profound. Her body dissolving into a cascade of exotic forces that causes her anima to flare, which immediately collapses into her flesh, producing a brief, blinding cataclysm of emerald flame even as Dark Essence flows into her, beginning her transformation.
First it ignites a Green star in her soul world which is then brought out into the waking world which is then affixed at her core. Yet such is her mercy that to shield others from her Glorious Radiance, steel and Brass flows from within her soul, covering her heart completely but for three slits that lay at the center. This same armor then flows over her, transforming her completely and utterly. Finally, a funnel grows at her back, to act as an exhaust, spewing forth the ash of tomorrow.
When the light clears, the Light that shines at the world's end can be seen, her stature towering over those who would seek to snuff the hope that she represents. This her anima roars forth as she readies her weapon to begin battle anew.
The Nightmare Clad in Radiant Steel is a figure of great fear and respect. Born from the fires of Armageddon, the enigmatic figure represents both the horror of Long Night as well as the hope of tomorrow.
She, for she is undoubtedly a woman, is clad in the armor forged from tarnished Brass and Steel. In all appearance, the armor appears to be cracked and worn, showing signs of great and terrible battles fought, yet carries the same with a noble grace.
At the core of the Armor is the Green Iron Heart, that beats with an Atomic Glow, the lights of which shine forth from three slits on the center of the chest. A funnel lies at the back, spewing radiant ash, a hint of the nightmares to come.
The Steel that makes up the armor is no less impressive. Any damage done immediately regenerates as if the armor is alive. So one would wonder just what the Armor withstood to have visible scars that did not heal like most of the attacks it withstood.
She wears the helm of Ruin and Glory. The slits on both sides seperate and different, one forever said to be looking at the past while one sees the future. A lesson to be learned that one should always learn from the past so that they may work to a better future.
But despite her fearsome appearance, she is a fine Knight indeed, tempering indifference with Compassion, doubt with conviction, indulgence with temperance and fear with Valor. For she and she alone represents the doom at the end of the age and the coming dawn.
For she is the light that shines at the world's end. The dream of tomorrow. The hope of Salvation, if clad in Green Radiance. For she alone took in the Nuclear light of Annihilation and crafted a new age from it.
Transformation:
For there stands the The Nightmare Clad in Radiant Steel. For there the Nightmare ends. Yet it is not to be. In the face of doubt and uncertainty, the Nightmare need only remember that hers is the only opinion that matters. For it is inconceivable that another can bring low the Nightmare.
The shock of the act of hearsay causes a transformation most profound. Her body dissolving into a cascade of exotic forces that causes her anima to flare, which immediately collapses into her flesh, producing a brief, blinding cataclysm of emerald flame even as Dark Essence flows into her, beginning her transformation.
First it ignites a Green star in her soul world which is then brought out into the waking world which is then affixed at her core. Yet such is her mercy that to shield others from her Glorious Radiance, steel and Brass flows from within her soul, covering her heart completely but for three slits that lay at the center. This same armor then flows over her, transforming her completely and utterly. Finally, a funnel grows at her back, to act as an exhaust, spewing forth the ash of tomorrow.
When the light clears, the Light that shines at the world's end can be seen, her stature towering over those who would seek to snuff the hope that she represents. This her anima roars forth as she readies her weapon to begin battle anew.
Shintai: Demon-Emperor Shintai
Strength +4, Dexterity +0, Stamina +5, Appearance 0
+2 Soak
-1 difficulty in Soak rolls.
Demonic Aspect:
-Demon Armor: +2 Soak
-Hardened Devil Body (x3): +9 Bruised Health levels
The Reason for this is that the Demon Emperor is a Giant Damage Sponge and you absolutely need to take Hardened Devil Body x3 to get the most out off it.
You are also better off giving up on any extra dex and going 5 Stamina instead. So our Stats increase like so.
+8 Stamina Soak Roll (3 stamina + 5 Shintai)
+ 4 Soak Roll from Shintai (2 Shintai + 2 Demon Armor)
+ 1 Armor. (mundane armor Provided it stacks)
+ 8 Soak Roll from VLE
-1 Difficulty Scar Writ Saga
So we roll 21 Soak dice at a difficulty of 4. (Provided we buy VL Exoskeleton and Scar Writ)
[] The Light that shines at the World's End
[] The Glorious Apocalypse Princess
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Archmage spheres make basically everyone who heard about them into a living expression of pain.
They are WoD's equivalent to Sidereal Martial arts in terms of "this is both overpowered as fuck and doesn't make sense."
Canon example.
Page 322, V20 Dark Ages
I am going to have to type this out longform
===
Johan faces two royal guards in his escape from the castle.
He wishes to push through them and crash through the door, but he also wants to avoid their spears.
In essence, he's taking 3 actions.
First he wants to avoid their spears. So his Dexterity + Athletics is taken at -1 dice and +1 Diff.
Second he wants to slam through the guards. Thats a Strength + Brawl action at -2 dice, +2 Diff.
Lastly his effort to smash the door will be a Strength + Stamina feat of strength at -3 dice, +3 Diff
The rest of the players at the table opt to take single actions, while Johan's player blows on his dice for good luck.
======
Seems to make sense to me about how we dont want to take those penalties.
Especially since we cant guarantee that the dice penalty will be in our Key abilities.
Huh; I forgot about that. I wonder how that changes things.
Going with a 22 dice starting pool:
- Attack: 22 vs 21 @ Diff 7 = 9.78 vs. 9.33
- Parry: 22 vs 20 @ Diff 6 = 12.22 vs. 11.1
- Parry: 22 vs 19 @ Diff 7 = 9.78 vs. 8.44
- Parry: 22 vs 18 @ Diff 8 = 7.33 vs. 6.00
- Parry: 22 vs 17 @ Diff 9 = 4.89 vs. 3.78
If we're taking multiple actions of different types in the same Turn then yeah; things can get very complicated since we've got the 1s subtract and a very high chance of Botches on later Actions if they don't have significant dice pools.