I think that's intentional. After all, we don't have the eye of grudges yet. So Shu Yue will point out that our understanding is still rooted in our own perspective, and help Ling Qi expand that to truly understand Yan Rensgu (or at least, better understand him).
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think that's intentional. After all, we don't have the eye of grudges yet. So Shu Yue will point out that our understanding is still rooted in our own perspective, and help Ling Qi expand that to truly understand Yan Rensgu (or at least, better understand him).
[ ] His grudge is against the world. He is alone, and wears his isolation as a crown. He deems this strength. Every time he is proven wrong, his grudge grows. (+1 Isolation XP)
I think this is bigger than Renshu just being mad at the current social order. If that's what it was, there should be some people, including his family, that he doesn't hate. I think the Community XP might be more valuable on paper, but this feels like narratively more the right choice.
I think this is bigger than Renshu just being mad at the current social order. If that's what it was, there should be some people, including his family, that he doesn't hate. I think the Community XP might be more valuable on paper, but this feels like narratively more the right choice.
- Location
- CA
These are both exactly half of the truth, as I see it.
[ ] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
Yan Renshu doesn't have a problem with power, influence and adulation going to people who deserve it. But he consistently complains that he doesn't receive the level of elevation his talent deserves and doesn't receive the recognition or compensation his skills are due. So all talk of meritocracy is obviously false if he's not recognized. Why does Ling Qi get what he doesn't? Because she has important friends, not because she deserves it.
And if power goes to those who are already powerful, not those who deserve power, then the entire structure of Imperial civilization is built on a lie. And if that's the case, why respect anything built on that foundation? It can hardly be immoral to steal from thieves, and from his perspective of the system, all those handed strength from this system have stolen the opportunity from those more deserving.
If Yan Renshu was where Ling Qi is, then everything would be exactly as he thinks it should be. But he's not, and the higher she rises the more he hates her.
- Location
- United States
Rimefruit like Zeqing used to grow on the mountaintop!
Does anything entering her mouth freeze?! That could be awkward.
Its always interesting seeing how she changes as she gets stronger. I low-key think she's gonna be see thru someday.
- Location
- Europe
I don't consider Yan Renshu a narcissist because he opposes the social order, or even because he is bitter. Rather, it is because he consistently makes self-destructive choices that are inconsistent with an accurate understanding of himself and the world he lives in.
An example: Yan Renshu attempted to frame Ling Qi way back in the first quest. There was no attempt to pull her to his side, no credible, reasonable, or even vaguely rational effort to sway her. When Ling Qi dealt with him he made no real indication of this intention.
It is after he fails and gets his shit kicked in that he was actually trying to be the good guy who was unjustly oppressed by the social order. The same social order he replicates in miniature through his contracts.
Since then he has gone out of his way to mess with Ling Qi, risking his life and plans. Again, we see no indication of good will in any shape or form. Again we see him subject others and cast them aside as he considers convenient.
Yan Renshu is consistently, even lethally, abusive and exploitative.
I think this is where we diverge. If Yan Renshu were where Ling Qi is now he'd say the world was unfair because he wasn't in Meizhen's place. He cannot be satisfied with his position, because he cannot accurately understand his own value.
Last edited:
...are you saying that Yan Renshu isn't a complete narcissist? Cause he definitely is. And choosing to side with the ith and completely destroying your family isn't exactly a rational decision when he was already a baron (as well as coming from an extremely wealthy family even if they weren't nobility so not exactly peasants, likely living in luxury Qi couldn't imagine when she was on the streets). Suyin went through the same shit Renshu did in his first year and she was arguably less talented, but she never became as bitter or really as entitled as Resnhu did. Yeah bad shit happened to him but he constantly doubled down on doing heinous shit when he had so many off ramps. He's an arrogant asshole who deserves no sympathy at this point.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Important to remember. He'd basically achieved the goal his family had been seeking all this time, he just needed to get his fief and not die. Reasonably manageable when you're not on the front lines. But instead, he turned his coat out of revenge and spite for what happened in the last year.
I think both of them could apply to Yan Renshu.
Though if think this one fits a bit better.
[ ] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
Yan Renshu doesn't think that he is superior for being alone. Yan Renshu thinks that he is superior to anyone else, and so it's just natural that he is alone. Isolation is the natural consequence of his perceived genius, not the source of it. He certainly weilds that Isolation as a crown, though. Isolation is a medal, the proof of his superiority.
Not only that, he belives that as everyone else is inferior to him, he has the rigth to use them as he pleases. His delusion goes as far as claiming that those people should be grateful for the honor of being used by him.
Then, his Grudge is against society. He blames the Empire for his failures, claiming that the system is rigged against people like him. And he isn't really wrong?
He was deeply dissapointed by the Argent Sect. That was the one place where the truly talented, aka him, would get the recognition they deserved.
However, he was crippled because a noble scion couldn't stand not being the only green realm in the tournament, because he was afraid of his superiority. Or maybe Yan Renshu was a narcissist asshole even back then. We don't really know.
In any case, the Argent Sect has always boasted about being independent of external influence, of being a meritocracy above all.
Yet that noble scion only got a slap on the wrist and advanced to the Inner Sect without problem, while Yan Renshu was unjustly held down in the Outer Sect.
Then came the arrival of Cai Renxiang, and he was "sacrificed" to promote her growth, even though he deserved it more.
Again, the Sect looked the other way.
So he deemed all this "noble nobility" hollow and fake. A way for the undeserving to keep themselves at power and push any threat down. If society's contracts and structures are only upholded when it benefits the nobles, why shouldn't he do the same?
Yan Renshu is a twisted reflection of Li Suyin, if she hadn't had so many confodence and self-worth problems.
Though if think this one fits a bit better.
[ ] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
Yan Renshu doesn't think that he is superior for being alone. Yan Renshu thinks that he is superior to anyone else, and so it's just natural that he is alone. Isolation is the natural consequence of his perceived genius, not the source of it. He certainly weilds that Isolation as a crown, though. Isolation is a medal, the proof of his superiority.
Not only that, he belives that as everyone else is inferior to him, he has the rigth to use them as he pleases. His delusion goes as far as claiming that those people should be grateful for the honor of being used by him.
Then, his Grudge is against society. He blames the Empire for his failures, claiming that the system is rigged against people like him. And he isn't really wrong?
He was deeply dissapointed by the Argent Sect. That was the one place where the truly talented, aka him, would get the recognition they deserved.
However, he was crippled because a noble scion couldn't stand not being the only green realm in the tournament, because he was afraid of his superiority. Or maybe Yan Renshu was a narcissist asshole even back then. We don't really know.
In any case, the Argent Sect has always boasted about being independent of external influence, of being a meritocracy above all.
Yet that noble scion only got a slap on the wrist and advanced to the Inner Sect without problem, while Yan Renshu was unjustly held down in the Outer Sect.
Then came the arrival of Cai Renxiang, and he was "sacrificed" to promote her growth, even though he deserved it more.
Again, the Sect looked the other way.
So he deemed all this "noble nobility" hollow and fake. A way for the undeserving to keep themselves at power and push any threat down. If society's contracts and structures are only upholded when it benefits the nobles, why shouldn't he do the same?
Yan Renshu is a twisted reflection of Li Suyin, if she hadn't had so many confodence and self-worth problems.
Last edited:
kfrar
Aspiring Encyclopedia
[ ] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
The bit where he thinks that he sees through the lies of the Empire, and that he is special for doing so? That a basic capacity for pessimism demonstrates his peerless intellect and elevates them above all of the other unworthy sheep out there? Such as his family, who chose to trust him despite family being a hollow structure, demonstrating their inferiority and proving that they deserve to be exploited by a superior specimen such as him?
That's what really elevates this option, I feel. Spite towards community alone doesn't explain his actions, but throw in the arrogance of someone who thinks he's special for realizing that life can be unfair sometimes, and this is about as Salty Rock Boy as it gets.
The bit where he thinks that he sees through the lies of the Empire, and that he is special for doing so? That a basic capacity for pessimism demonstrates his peerless intellect and elevates them above all of the other unworthy sheep out there? Such as his family, who chose to trust him despite family being a hollow structure, demonstrating their inferiority and proving that they deserve to be exploited by a superior specimen such as him?
That's what really elevates this option, I feel. Spite towards community alone doesn't explain his actions, but throw in the arrogance of someone who thinks he's special for realizing that life can be unfair sometimes, and this is about as Salty Rock Boy as it gets.
- Location
- USA
Yan Renshu has the same problem as Sun Shao and Sun Liling (well, the problem she had dunno about now).
He believes that he sees so very clearly, and that what he sees is so self-evident. The worthy must think like he does, respecting him and his skills. Those he thinks are worthy and who think he is worthy, both, must think as he does. Those who don't see what he does aren't worthy of respect and thus aren't worthy of fair dealings.
He certainly carries a grudge against imperial society, the sects, etc.
He's also very isolated. And his grudge does worsen every time his isolation derived weaknesses are rubbed in his face.
But I don't think he wears it as a crown. He doesn't revel in his isolation. He feels he deserves accolades and awe. He might not want friends, but he definitely wants simps. That's a community.
Like every overconfident 'genius/really smart person' who believes their ideology is the correct one but reality constantly proves them wrong, he hates it. He is smart enough to know that the Empire is the way he hates, not necessarily everyone. He certainly found a community that he feels likes him.
The community one fits much better, I think. He has a grudge against Imperial/Sect society (and Ling Qi), not the world.
He believes that he sees so very clearly, and that what he sees is so self-evident. The worthy must think like he does, respecting him and his skills. Those he thinks are worthy and who think he is worthy, both, must think as he does. Those who don't see what he does aren't worthy of respect and thus aren't worthy of fair dealings.
He certainly carries a grudge against imperial society, the sects, etc.
He's also very isolated. And his grudge does worsen every time his isolation derived weaknesses are rubbed in his face.
But I don't think he wears it as a crown. He doesn't revel in his isolation. He feels he deserves accolades and awe. He might not want friends, but he definitely wants simps. That's a community.
Like every overconfident 'genius/really smart person' who believes their ideology is the correct one but reality constantly proves them wrong, he hates it. He is smart enough to know that the Empire is the way he hates, not necessarily everyone. He certainly found a community that he feels likes him.
The community one fits much better, I think. He has a grudge against Imperial/Sect society (and Ling Qi), not the world.
I think its a little of both but if I must choose I gonna go with
[x] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not.
Couse I dont like the Crown thing dont work with him couse from the begining he acted from the shadows and is someone that is at front leading.
[x] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not.
Couse I dont like the Crown thing dont work with him couse from the begining he acted from the shadows and is someone that is at front leading.
I do not think that Yan Renshu thinks himself superior to all others. I think that he (arguably accurately) believes that the strictures of community are limitations designed to enshrine not the well-being of all, but rather the well-being of the privileged who make those very strictures. He thinks that the only difference between him and those like the noble who crippled him is social status, an artifact of community that is in fact inherent to any community.
He isn't isolated because of some sort of superiority or strength, but because (in his view) he has no choice but to stand against others when the community itself wrongs him.
[X] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
He isn't isolated because of some sort of superiority or strength, but because (in his view) he has no choice but to stand against others when the community itself wrongs him.
[X] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
TimEd
Meteor maker
Moratorium. No vote yet.
- Location
- United States of America
Now... let's not get ahead of ourselves. Sure, it is unforgivable and terrible... and the Empire does it as well. Lest we forget that when the initial probe into Shishigui territory a target that the expedition leader wanted to hit was civilian infrastructure. Or the entire tribe of cloud nomads that were slain except for one escapee.
While certainly Meizhen and Renxiang don't really know about those situations, let's not try to take the moral high ground here and say the Empire only attacks military targets.
In other matters, I do like the first option for the choices available, even if the second sounds cooler.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
[X ] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
- Location
- Staring into the void
[X] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
NoxOfUmbra
Shadow of the night
- Location
- Colombia, South América
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
[X] His grudge is against the world. He is alone, and wears his isolation as a crown. He deems this strength. Every time he is proven wrong, his grudge grows. (+1 Isolation XP)
[X] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
Same. I'd write in something like:
[X] (Write-in without permission) His grudge is blind, a self-justified side-effect of his own frustrated wants and inability to fit in (+1 Want XP)
Or if we couldn't get Want, I'd want Isolation XP. But I don't like the answer that gives Isolation XP; the Community answer is clearly more accurate (even though we normally think of Community on a more personal level rather than political/structural like Yan Renshu thinks in terms of).
Notably, I don't think Yan Renshu could have Community in his domain, but he certainly has Isolation/Want.
[X] His grudge is against community itself. He thinks it's contracts and strictures as false and hollow as his own dealings. That he is superior for seeing this, where others do not. (+1 Community XP)
Last edited: