deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
They can always negotiate with Tindomiel for it. Plus, there's no guarantee that the project will ever get to the point where building Waystones is viable.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Why Project contributors have to negotiate a separate deal with Tindomiel to use a knowledge we all got together?
Sure, this is not a problem if we wouldn't be able to build new Waystones. That's why we discussing what will happen if we succeed.
Ah, well I guess I was arguing on the basis of semantics in that case.
My understanding of destabilizing was more of a structural problem, or that they would be on the level of a poisoned well that would affect the entire project. My initial case was to reassure that the degree in which it would compromise the project as a whole would not happen.
The winning votes are also really mild compared to other possibilities that I could see it just taking AP for courting good will rather than it causing any form of harm to the project. I don't think the setting is that strict that this would be a deal breaker for the factions involved.
So while I don't think this could be something without consequences, I also don't think this would harm more than help the Waystone Project itself nor harm it at all.
- Location
- Oklahoma
I'm of the opinion that if we get far enough for this cost to come into effect then we've already won everything forever and can deal with any potential problems with our newfound immense political capital from pushing back Chaos.
It's like if someone agrees to work for you entirely for free, with only the stipulation that if you win the lottery they get a cut.
Only in this case 'winning the lottery' also means saving the world.
It's like if someone agrees to work for you entirely for free, with only the stipulation that if you win the lottery they get a cut.
Only in this case 'winning the lottery' also means saving the world.
Because it is a means of saving the world?
I mean I think it is worth keeping in mind that our objective is not the perfectly fair deal in the spherical magical void, it is to get from point A 'we barely know how to turn waystones off and on' to point B 'fix broken ones' and perhaps even point C 'make new ones'.
So... how important are waystones to the setting?
I get it's air-filters for bad juju but that's about it.
That green moon I assume would be made irrelevant, necromancer would also be non-viable as a PC class?
By saving the world I assume it's booting out the 4 chaos gods, how would it?
The waystones were foolproof and perfect as a concept, but the only reason it failed was because of outside factors right?
- Location
- Finland
They don't.
They can just go and make their own and then deal with any political problems that crop up from pissing of a major house, and possibly other participants in the project.
That's why I'm kinda okay with it. My "problems with the Project" was more about what could happen if we go all in on territory for the deal.
Imagine you spent a decade working on a Project, only to learn that you can use your knowledge and participate in building save-the-world devices only if Elves refuse to do it.
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The chaos wastes would stop advancing, dark magic would be weaker. By saving the world it means less preventing any chance of it ending and more stopping the ongoing apocalypse.
Or here's an idea we can tell them right now. Why would we hide it? Also this is infrastructure not a race, a bridge is a bridge no matter who makes it, you can still drive across.
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Waystones are the primary reason demons can't manifest south of the wastes unless specifically summoned. Creating the first generation of waystones and funneling the excess magic into the vortex ended the War Against Chaos thousands of years ago as demons found themselves unable to appear as massive nation razing armies.
You still get the odd demon here and there, but that requires blood sacrifice, an excess amount of magic built up in a specific area, or both, but they'll always fade over time because there's not enough magic to sustain them. Before the waystones, they'd stick around the material world for as long as Dwarves and Elves can.
I'm totally for making sure other contributors okay with the deal, before signing it.
I can't imagine they are the only ones ambitious enough to want they names to associate with saving the world.
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- Location
- Czech Republic
Im sure that there would be some wizards that would complain, but light order as an institution would probably not really care.
Lot of this really depends on how difficult will creating waystone be. If it requires wizard to be able to do atleast moderately complicated enchantments than those people most likely already have significant backlog of work.
Any waystone created by elves is waystone that imperial magister didn't have to spend time to work on.
If that is how contributors will view the deal with Tindomiel, then it is great and I have no objections.
Well then they could have asked for that for their price like Timonel did.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I see the thread really popped off overnight.
For people concerned about even the subtle option of elf gang tags on the waystones I would like to shill a bit for my own plan, Plan Discretion Is The Watchword, which takes the Discreet option (which does not dedicate Tindomiel-made Waystones to Hekarti outside of Laurelorn, but rather to a local god that Tindomiel believes is secretly Hekarti) to grab the Magical Theorist, and I guess I'll throw an approval vote at Middle Ground, which also uses the Discreet option but only in the Empire to grab the Heir for the people who think that what we need more than elven magical theories is elven political connections (which is also called Plan Political Leverage: remember to combine identical plans with different names when running a tally).
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
[X] Plan Middle Ground
EDIT: I would also like to point out something that people may have missed about the Scope options: the larger the Scope, the likelier it is that Tindomiel can't fulfill all the orders that come in. Let's say that we go for Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (fuck Tilea am i right), and we land our moonshot and somehow are able to make new Waystones. Everyone is going to want them, and there's no way Tindomiel can handle everything, and Mathilde has already negotiated with them that they aren't allowed to bottleneck creation if other people are capable of doing the work and they aren't. So I think promising them the right of first refusal is a bit of a nothingburger: they'll build some and other people will build others, to the limits of everyone's total productive capacity, because that will be the only way to get everything done as quickly as possible.
And, of course, this does require that we make the moonshot and become capable of making new Waystones, which isn't quite "winning the setting" but does kind of stick a sharp stick in Chaos's eye. I strongly suspect we won't get there.
For people concerned about even the subtle option of elf gang tags on the waystones I would like to shill a bit for my own plan, Plan Discretion Is The Watchword, which takes the Discreet option (which does not dedicate Tindomiel-made Waystones to Hekarti outside of Laurelorn, but rather to a local god that Tindomiel believes is secretly Hekarti) to grab the Magical Theorist, and I guess I'll throw an approval vote at Middle Ground, which also uses the Discreet option but only in the Empire to grab the Heir for the people who think that what we need more than elven magical theories is elven political connections (which is also called Plan Political Leverage: remember to combine identical plans with different names when running a tally).
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
[X][HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
[X] Plan Middle Ground
EDIT: I would also like to point out something that people may have missed about the Scope options: the larger the Scope, the likelier it is that Tindomiel can't fulfill all the orders that come in. Let's say that we go for Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (fuck Tilea am i right), and we land our moonshot and somehow are able to make new Waystones. Everyone is going to want them, and there's no way Tindomiel can handle everything, and Mathilde has already negotiated with them that they aren't allowed to bottleneck creation if other people are capable of doing the work and they aren't. So I think promising them the right of first refusal is a bit of a nothingburger: they'll build some and other people will build others, to the limits of everyone's total productive capacity, because that will be the only way to get everything done as quickly as possible.
And, of course, this does require that we make the moonshot and become capable of making new Waystones, which isn't quite "winning the setting" but does kind of stick a sharp stick in Chaos's eye. I strongly suspect we won't get there.
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- Location
- Czech Republic
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
FlyingScanian
Tea Addict
- Location
- Land of Eternal Night
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] picklepikkl
Eff it, those are some Good arguments from someone I generally trust to have their head screwed on right
Eff it, those are some Good arguments from someone I generally trust to have their head screwed on right
They don't need to build all the Waystones for problems to arise. Even if they only build a few shrines to a foreign magic Goddess in Kislev for example, that could be a problem. For the locals, and for the local Gods. If we go Discreet then that Goddess wouldn't be Hekarti, but if house Tindomiel decides to go with Luccina or something that's still going to ruffle a lot of feathers.
I would gladly take having a diplomatic issue if we can build waystones. Building waystones is the best outcome from the project. Everything else is secondary to it. A magical theorist from a Mage house who loves to show off would be of help. Also consider that most waystones seem to be In The middle of no where.
- Location
- Czech Republic
I don't see what shrines have to do with anything, neither of the plans pickle is voting for has shrines. If house Tindomel decides to build shrine despite that then they have obviously breached the agreement.
Right, those particular plans merely dedicate the Waystones to a Goddess (which could still be problematic). But the argument that was made was that "the right of first refusal is a bit of a nothingburger", and I think that it's really not. They could make just a few Waystones dedicated to their Goddess and it could still cause the political complications that we're worried about.