Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Reader mode
Unless I've misunderstood, discretely doesn't out Aksel as a Hedgewise, instead having him in as a priest of Haletha. As Haletha isn't proscribed, would the Count have any reason to act against Aksel? Attacking a priest of a tolerated goddess, even if She is a minor goddess, doesn't seem as if it would be worth it to me.
 
Lampshade said:
Thoughts on using the remaining Great Deed to propose a reclamation of the nexus at an elector meet? Mathilde is the expert on pushing Chaos back at this point and if we restore the flow, pacify the forest and thus settle the issue, we might get another Deed back out of it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I am hoping we create a Knightly Order dedicated to Halêtha and it would be their job to reclaim Forest of Shadows.
 
[X][HOUSE] Yes

[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
-[x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
[X] Plan Subtlety is for losers, but only at home
-[x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[X] [REP] Head (-3)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)
[X] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
-[X] [SCOPE] Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (+3)
-[X] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[X] [FORM] Discreet (-1)

This is an opportunity to get a skilled theorist or enchanter, in return for something we're going to need anyway - magical artisans setting up waystones. Of course, the latter only applies if we wildly exceed our expectations and start building new waystones, which would be great but isn't assured. I think it would be a terrible idea not to take.

That's not to minimize the potential political downsides of putting up shrines, but I think the various plans suggested handle that well enough that it's worth the cost. The magical downsides that have been raised - that the shrines might somehow empower Hekarti - seem to me to be mostly speculative, and not matching what we've seen with other waystones. The closest example we know of would be the suspected empowerment of the Widow in Kislev, and if that turns out to be the case that's using the entirety of the waystone stream dedicated to that task. If House Tindomiel tries to slip something like that in to new built waystones, Mathilde would be fully justified in revoking the deal.

[HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
 
TreP said:
Imagine, you are a dwarf. Some kind of important one. You are aware of the Project, and you know that dwarfs participating too. Then, after some time, you hear that project was successful. You celebrate. And then you get news, that you can't order your dwarfly-built shiny new Waystones in your home, because Mathilde promised it to some Elves. Worse, they will depict it with symbols of one of their Goddes and will stuck it right on top of your mountain.

I'm oversimplifying this of course, but the point is that Elves demand something we have no right to give them. Not without major consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, the counter agreement is that she would have the right to do so within the empire.

The options to give 'empire, knightland and Kislev' and 'the old world' is mathy overstepping her authority.

But the other two are very much in her authority.
 
@Boney Thank you for the excellent update. I missed a lot of discussion, so I'll be catching up and trying to make a post soon. I've been ninjaed so thoroughly I'm not sure I have anything of substance to offer, but I'll certainly try.
 
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
For Ranald's daughter.

[X] [HOUSE] No
No. Executive. Meddling.
They are trying to mandate features of the end product when we haven't even started feasibility studies.

[X] Plan: Just the Heir
-[X] [SCOPE] Laurelorn (0)
-[X] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)
But if we do end up shacked to them we can at least contain the potential damage.

[x] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
- [x] [SCOPE] Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (+3)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Discreet (-1)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So can someone please explain how the fact that peasants can't tell the difference stops the Lady and Widow from complaining about elf gang signs on their turf?
Heck I would expect the Ice Witches and Hags we already have on the project to object the moment they hear about it.
 
TreP said:
Imagine, you are a dwarf. Some kind of important one. You are aware of the Project, and you know that dwarfs participating too. Then, after some time, you hear that project was successful. You celebrate. And then you get news, that you can't order your dwarfly-built shiny new Waystones in your home, because Mathilde promised it to some Elves. Worse, they will depict it with symbols of one of their Goddes and will stuck it right on top of your mountain.

I'm oversimplifying this of course, but the point is that Elves demand something we have no right to give them. Not without major consequences.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The first part, being unable to order a "dwarfly-built" waystone, isn't a situation that could happen. Boney clarifies that the right of first refusal applies to situations that would bottleneck the project:

Boney said:
The deal would mean that when a Waystone is ready to be built, then Tindomiel have the opportunity to supply the person that will do the magical side of things. If they can't or won't, then they've had their first refusal and now anyone else can do it instead. The point of first refusal is that they won't be able to bottleneck a hypothetical future Waystone rollout.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

and the update specifies only the wind-based portions of construction (bolding mine):

Boney said:
Scope - House Tindomiel will have right of first refusal for providing the Wind-based aspects of constructing Waystones within:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

As for the political aspects of the shrine, I do suggest care in which plans are voted for, and either limited scope or discretion.
 
Parabola said:
I could see this Young Master being a fruitful seed for future developments, if Just The Heir wins.


It's not generosity. Undeniably, if the project is successful they benefit from it - they benefit from having the prestige of helping restore Waystones, or even create new ones if we get that far. Politically, that's pretty strong even if it gets restrained to just Laurelorn. And that's only if things get that far! This isn't an intern working for exposure, it's a political move calculated to be minimal-risk. Worst case scenario for them, the project goes nowhere and whoever gets chosen to help with it loses 'just' a few years of effort.

None of this is bad - the basis of trade is mutual benefit, and certainly we'd both benefit from this. But it's not something they're doing for no reason.

Unless the shrines to Hekarti mess with the Waystones somehow (in which case we'd have sufficient grounds in which to say Tindomiel made the agreement in bad-faith), then the worst that they are is a political move.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They're offering to work with us and being paid by being first in line to do more work
Yes, they get the prestige of getting to say that they were the ones that stamped magic sigils on the (hypothetical) new Waystones so they are getting something out of this
But being paid in fame and prestige is literally being paid in exposure
And rather critically, it's a payment that doesn't cost us personally much of anything
So yes it is a very generous offer, it's not often that somebody comes to you and offers their expertise for the price of using that expertise in your project

Or as Boney apparently beat me to putting it
Boney said:
It can easily be argued that them working on contingency and that the price they demand is that they do even more work is absurdly generous.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Last edited:
LancyIain said:
Unless I've misunderstood, discretely doesn't out Aksel as a Hedgewise, instead having him in as a priest of Haletha. As Haletha isn't proscribed, would the Count have any reason to act against Aksel? Attacking a priest of a tolerated goddess, even if She is a minor goddess, doesn't seem as if it would be worth it to me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think the issue is (Beyond it giving other cults a reason to take a whack at the Haletha pinata for secrets) is that it gives him a thread to tug, and we don't know how much background information he has to tug with. Worst case scenario for example could be Nordland has known for ages that Halethan hedgewise are around, but never had any reason to bother with them since they kept to themselves.

Is it worth the risk of opening this possible vector of exposure to parties that have a very vested interest against them, in exchange for quite possibly no payoff for them? And is it our place to decide to have them run that risk when we really know very little about their desired endgame, and whether any payoff, even if it does come out. Might not even be something they're interested in? Especially since if we are successful they could either be revealed in the future, or given rewards that don't require publicity depending on what they're interested in and how the landscape looks at that point.
 
Last edited:
Jyn Ryvia said:
I mean, the counter agreement is that she would have the right to do so within the empire.

The options to give 'empire, knightland and Kislev' and 'the old world' is mathy overstepping her authority.

But the other two are very much in her authority.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sure, Mathilde is well within her rights to do so in Empire.
The problem is, to have enough points for at least Enchanter or Theorist we have to actively dedicate those Waystones to Hecarti. I mean, I'm not an expert for Warhammer universe, but I don't think that promoting Elven goddess in Empire is something that will end well.

lentil said:
The first part, being unable to order a "dwarfly-built" waystone, isn't a situation that could happen. Boney clarifies that the right of first refusal applies to situations that would bottleneck the project:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You can't order Waystone to be built by masters you want, if Elves already agreed to built it and there is no bottleneck.
lentil said:
and the update specifies only the wind-based portions of construction (bolding mine):
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's true. Will average ruler of Karak know and understand this difference though?
 
One good side to 'shrine' that hasn't been discussed.

The Dark elf's are sure as hell not going to sank them: way to scared of their version of Hekarti.
 
@Boney would this be a sign that I was somewhat right in thinking that house Tindomiel has some evangelical thoughts…

Or is this just the elf version of spray painting their gang tag all over the place?
 
[X] [HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan: Just the Heir
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly

This seems like the most sensible plan, the Hedgewise really dont need to draw any attention when you consider the situation in Norland.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Fascinating bit of symbolism, but it raises more questions than it answers. Why do Aqshy and Chamon have to be independently represented? If I had to guess, she was a six armed goddess who took over the domain of magic, and they tried to symbolise the winds through her after the fact.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Off the top of my head, this coincidentally reminds me of an effort I made months or a year ago to determine which of the Winds associate with which Chaos God, and as it would happen Aqshy and Chamon were the Winds most easily associate with Khorne, Mr. Anti-Magic. That's the only connection that jumps out at me, not that's it much of one.
 
Last edited:
Sovereign Hunt said:
Off the top of my head, this coincidentally reminds me of an effort I made months or a year ago to determine which of the Winds associate with which Chaos God, and as it would happen Aqshy and Chamon were the Winds most easily associate with Khorne, Mr. Anti-Magic. That's the only explanation that jumps out at me, not that's it much of one.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, 3 out of 4 of them have canon ones.
 
[x] Plan All in, but discreet
- [x] [SCOPE] The Old World (+4)
- [x] [REP] Head (-3)
- [x] [FORM] Discreet (-1)

[x] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
[x] [HOUSE] Yes
[x] Plan Subtlety is for losers, but only at home
- [x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
- [x] [REP] Head (-3)
- [x] [FORM] Shrines (+1)
[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
- [x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
[x] Plan Discretion Is The Watchword
- [x] [SCOPE] Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (+3)
- [x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
- [x] [FORM] Discreet (-1)
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top