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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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picklepikkl said:
What a lovely thing to wake up to after a difficult night (I've had about 48 hours of on-and-off tension headaches that, at their worst, feel like I'm being squeezed in a vise).

Unless I am missing something huge here, I think I have to vote No on House Tindomiel, because of one issue: pacing. We know how slowly the Elder Races take things that they think are important. Giving them the monopoly on Waystone construction anywhere outside their own territory is just asking for a culture clash writ very large, as we go "please hurry" and they go "we are hurrying."

I don't believe this means "if we can't fill the entire order you have simultaneously, only part of it, you can go elsewhere". If it does (i.e. if it means that we can have Tindomiel working on as many Waystones as they can do at a time and other people working on others), I would be more sanguine about it.

Even if I'm wrong about how much of a pain they'd be to work with, we absolutely cannot promise them the Old World. That's a great way to sink our cred with the Karaz Ankor. The most ambitious plan I'd be willing to go with is the human parts of the Old World: the Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev. If we reach the stretch goal of "new Waystones" and we want them in dwarf territory or feeding into dwarf megaprojects, we cannot go promising the right of construction to someone else, let alone elves they do not yet know or trust.
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What do you think of Shrines in Laurelorn, to just get the Heir? That struck me as a good low-risk plan, unless we're particularly concerned about how that would impact politics in Laurelorn.
 
Personally I think the Tindomiel will add very little the Grey Lords don't already, but since we already spent the AP let's get the heir on board. They've got the prestige to tap into house assets to boost their own somewhat lacking personal contribution, and can act as a channel into Laurelorn for us, which has been something we're a bit lacking so far.

Meanwhile if the other houses really take issue with a bunch of shrines getting set up, they have the pull to settle that amongst themselves.

For the Hedgewise, since he doesn't have a preference, I think bringing them in as a perpetual makes the most sense. Not much chance of a major payoff in the sense of a change in status, but I think that would be very unlikely regardless. So picking the choice that's safest blowback wise for both parties that also adds the most heft to Mathilde's position in the bluff makes sense to me.
 
@Boney So if I'm understanding this right: house Tindomiel is offering to provided the raw numbers of skilled, multi-wind using labours needed to actually go all over the old world and set up the Waystone?

Going to admit sounds tempting.
 
picklepikkl said:
I don't believe this means "if we can't fill the entire order you have simultaneously, only part of it, you can go elsewhere". If it does (i.e. if it means that we can have Tindomiel working on as many Waystones as they can do at a time and other people working on others), I would be more sanguine about it.
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The deal would mean that when a Waystone is ready to be built, then Tindomiel have the opportunity to supply the person that will do the magical side of things. If they can't or won't, then they've had their first refusal and now anyone else can do it instead. The point of first refusal is that they won't be able to bottleneck a hypothetical future Waystone rollout.

Jyn Ryvia said:
@Boney So if I'm understanding this right: house Tindomiel is offering to provided the raw numbers of skilled, multi-wind using labours needed to actually go all over the old world and set up the Waystone?

Going to admit sounds tempting.
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That they're angling for this certainly indicates that they're willing and able to supply a fair bit of magical artisanry.
 
[ ] [HOUSE] Yes

[ ] Plan Middle Ground
-[-] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[-] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[ ] [FORM] Discreet (-1)

[-] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
-[-] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[-] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[ ] [FORM] Dedication (0)


What they are offering is not Waystone secrets, but magical man(elf?)power to actually put the plan in action….

Something we actually need badly, one elf mage that can use more then one wind is worth that many winds of human wizards in man power.

So ya, it's a good deal, if not an exciting one.
 
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Thorgrim definitely wants waystones in all of the new holds. Working with Eonir wasn't an issue for Belegar but never know with Thorgrim.
Adding shrines to elf gods to the mix would be more likely to cause an issue.
 
@Boney if we limit the deal to just Laurelorn, can we still hire Tindomiel expertise for putting up waystones in other places? I suspect that would be a separate deal, and wouldn't automatically give them permission to make the waystone into a shrine/religious icon.
 
I'm thinking this combination should be relatively inoffensive:

[ ] [HOUSE] Yes
[ ] [SCOPE] Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (+3)
[ ] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
[ ] [FORM] Discreet (-1)
 
[X] [HOUSE] No

[X] [HEDGEWISE] No

Sorry, accidentally voted a few seconds early. I deleted that post and am revoting.

No.

[X] Plan: Just the Heir
 
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I'm strongly inclined to either keeping the House's range of first refusal limited to Laurlelon, or have the waystones limited to being secular in design.

If we knew more about the specifics of discrete (which god/guise?) I'd consider it, but as is.... eh.
 
[X][HOUSE] Yes

[x] Plan Middle Ground
-[x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[x] [FORM] Discreet (-1)

[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
-[x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
 
veekie said:
I'm thinking this combination should be relatively inoffensive:

[ ] [HOUSE] Yes
[ ] [SCOPE] Empire, Bretonnia, and Kislev (+3)
[ ] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
[ ] [FORM] Discreet (-1)
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Bretonnia might have opinions about magical doohickies dedicated to foreign deities.
Nothing we could not work around, or we can just not put waystones in there.
But that might make them ask for more if/when we tryo t recruit them.
 
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
[X] [HOUSE] Yes

[X] Plan: Just the Heir
-[X] [SCOPE] Laurelorn (0)
-[X] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)
 
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[X] [HOUSE] Yes

[X] Plan: Just the Heir
-[X] [SCOPE] Laurelorn (0)
-[X] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)

[X] [HEDGEWISE] Openly

[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly

[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly

Voting for all three hedgewise options because I think they are all interesting options and I haven't narrowed down which one I want yet. May change my mind later.
 
[X] [HOUSE] Yes
[X] Plan Subtlety is for losers, but only at home
-[X] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[X] [REP] Head (-3)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)


[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly


[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
-[x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[x] [FORM] Dedication (0)
 
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[x] [HOUSE] No
[x] Plan: Just the Heir
-[x] [SCOPE] Laurelorn (0)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[x] [FORM] Shrines (+1)

[x] [HEDGEWISE] Openly
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
[x] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
 
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Like she said herself, "... problem in some hypothetical future, in exchange for assistance in the very tangible here and now."

[X] [HOUSE] Yes

[x] Plan how many people can actually read elf anyways?
-[x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[x] [REP] Magical Theorist (-2)
-[x] [FORM] Dedication (0)

[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
 
I know people are going to vote yes on the Hedgewise, but I urge you to consider that we can just say "No" to the House. I know having burned an action is painful, but what they are asking for is an incredibly long duration, huge scope commitment. And we already got a Grey Lord for the elven magic side.

It's okay to say "No" sometimes, it really is.
 
[X] [HOUSE] No

Voting no here. I still expect an overwhelming Yes vote, but... not all of the shots we take will land, and I feel like the price asked for here is just way out of scope compared to everyone else we've recruited. Giving this single cult such huge influence over entire countries is a step too far. (And if we pick The Old World, that will include the Karaz Ankor.) The most I'd compromise for is Northern Provinces and even that's still a big imposition. Moreover, House Tindomiel is likely to take the long view on things, what with how they're starting their negotiations on trying to get an eternal monopoly on Waystones in [SCOPE]. Since it'll have to go through them, they might slow down the implementation of whatever Waystone design we might come up with over decades or centuries instead of years.

[X] Plan: Just the Heir
-[X] [SCOPE] Laurelorn (0)
-[X] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)

My favored plan, if we do make an agreement. We only wanted House Tindomiel for their political connections. The Heir gets us that, and this also avoids making massive sweeping agreements before our research has even started. Between all the different traditions we've gathered already and the participation of Grey Lord Hatalath and Vicereine Cadaeth of the Ward of Frost, I think we're covered well enough on the magical research side.

Edit: Even just the Laruelorn region includes all of the Wards, many of which have their own magic traditions. And it's the Wards where (nearly?) all the Waystones themselves are actually going to be, not the City. This looks like, even at a minimum, House Tindomiel overreaching even in their home territory. I don't think it's a good idea to make this agreement at all.

[X] [HEDGEWISE] Openly
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly

Not seen much discussion yet on how safe we think Aksel of Hüven will be a Hedgewise in Laurelorn, but I favor the more open choices for now.
Briefvoice said:
I know people are going tyo vote yes on the Hedgewise, but I urge you to consider that we can just so "No" to the House. I know having burned an action is painful, but what they are asking for is an incredibly long duration, huge scope commitment. And we already got a Grey Lord for the elven magic side.
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To second this, we don't spend AP on results. We spend in on Boney's writing. The update gave us an interesting scene with House Tindomiel and insight into their goddess. Even if we vote No, we didn't lose or waste the action. Sometimes Mathilde tries something and it doesn't work out, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth trying that in the first place.
 
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[X] [HEDGEWISE] Discreetly
Aksel will join the Waystone Project as a representative from the Cult of Halétha.
[X] [HEDGEWISE] Secretly
Aksel will join the Waystone Project in the guise of a Grey Order Perpetual who will claim expertise in the inherited lore of the Grey Order.

I'm kinda curious how they will treat us during the turns when we don't have father on.

[X] Shrines for Heir
-[X] [SCOPE] Laurelorn (0)
-[X] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[X] [FORM] Shrines (+1)

[x] Plan Middle Ground
-[x] [SCOPE] The Empire (+2)
-[x] [REP] Heir (-1)
-[x] [FORM] Discreet (-1)
 
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