[X] Focus your network building efforts on the Foundations (+1 to region rep on completion of the Hou Zuang's gift project, Improves effect of Hanyi's concerts on Meng projects)
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
I believe that Sixiang's suggestion is a way for the author to encourage us to take a better choice. As such I'm supporting Central Valley.
[X] Focus your network building effort on the Central Valley (+1 to region rep on completion of the Hou Zhuang's gift project. 50% chance on completion of gaining a +1 rep boost with Thundering Hills or South River Jing region)
[X] Focus your network building effort on the Central Valley (+1 to region rep on completion of the Hou Zhuang's gift project. 50% chance on completion of gaining a +1 rep boost with Thundering Hills or South River Jing region)
On a political subfaction level, we already have quite good relationships with the Weilu factions and our current projects are likely to eventually win them over more. We've just discovered an entirely new sort of appeal based on nationalism and there appear to be a significant number of people who value it in Imperial Moderate dominated areas which we currently struggle to connect with.
I would prefer to not neglect Imperial Moderates so as to exclusively focus on the Weilu factions. Rather we ought to cast a wider net in order to peel the Imperial Moderates away from the Imperial Conservatives, resulting in a more broadly friendly Emerald Seas. This also helps distinguish us from Meng Dan, who will be an intrigue focused character with Weilu support that we simply will never be able to match.
I would prefer to not neglect Imperial Moderates so as to exclusively focus on the Weilu factions. Rather we ought to cast a wider net in order to peel the Imperial Moderates away from the Imperial Conservatives, resulting in a more broadly friendly Emerald Seas. This also helps distinguish us from Meng Dan, who will be an intrigue focused character with Weilu support that we simply will never be able to match.
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That´s fair, part of the reason I´ve changed my mind
[X] Focus your network building effort on the Central Valley (+1 to region rep on completion of the Hou Zhuang's gift project. 50% chance on completion of gaining a +1 rep boost with Thundering Hills or South River Jing region)
Hmm. I get why people want to support Hanyi, condense narratives, and push our neo-Weilu thing. And it's nice to see. But the dynamics in play are a bit more complicated than they look based on just this vote.
We have a lot of narrative threads in play overall, all intertwining with each other in different ways. Prepping the summit team, southern diplomacy, political networking, tying up Argent Sect plotlines, Dream-diving/historical study, developing neo-Weilu cultural identity, fief exploration/building, and the war, to name the big ones I can think of. One of the thickest bundles, appropriately, is the grouping of the southern diplomacy with questions of cultural identity, because of the arguments we used in court, which connects it to the dream/history stuff, back around to contemporary political standing and the ties we form from and for the diplomatic venture to the south which forms our main questline focus right now.
The trouble with Hanyi's southwestern concert venture, as it stands now, is that it forks the narrative bundle. It pries neo-weilu culture, and Hanyi, narratives away from the core context of our foreign diplomatic project and securing political support for it. And it does this because the people of the southwest are politically isolated, not influential, and the patron of the cultural project in the southwest already supports our southern foreign diplomacy on its own merits. The effort doesn't logically boost support for our diplomacy in any substantial way. The current course is putting a lot of distance between subjects we want to have strong integration, Hanyi especially.
I agree that Hanyi's southwestern concert project needs shoring up, but this current vote doesn't do that in the ways that are important, and if anything it doubles down on the root causes of its headaches. What we want to do is weave the narrative branches that have split apart back together, so we can streamline the narrative progression in a more integrated fashion. To boost the relevance and impact of Hanyi's concerts, and not have them skimmed over for lack of time. I'm not saying voting for the Central Valley offers that, because it doesn't; but if you're voting for Foundation for the sake of Hanyi's project, know that it's basically tripping into the pitfall that was set through poor planning on our and Yrsillar's part.
I'd like to see Hanyi's concerts be more central to the political buildup to our diplomatic mission, not relegated to a geographically and politically isolated corner of the province. There's no time for a kiddy pool training area for her to find her feet, and I trust she doesn't need it.
The cultural engagement and development Hanyi will be doing in the southwest is valuable work, and it has long-term relevance, but in the meantime, the here and now, we simply need more from her to make the narrative of her efforts sing true.
We have a lot of narrative threads in play overall, all intertwining with each other in different ways. Prepping the summit team, southern diplomacy, political networking, tying up Argent Sect plotlines, Dream-diving/historical study, developing neo-Weilu cultural identity, fief exploration/building, and the war, to name the big ones I can think of. One of the thickest bundles, appropriately, is the grouping of the southern diplomacy with questions of cultural identity, because of the arguments we used in court, which connects it to the dream/history stuff, back around to contemporary political standing and the ties we form from and for the diplomatic venture to the south which forms our main questline focus right now.
The trouble with Hanyi's southwestern concert venture, as it stands now, is that it forks the narrative bundle. It pries neo-weilu culture, and Hanyi, narratives away from the core context of our foreign diplomatic project and securing political support for it. And it does this because the people of the southwest are politically isolated, not influential, and the patron of the cultural project in the southwest already supports our southern foreign diplomacy on its own merits. The effort doesn't logically boost support for our diplomacy in any substantial way. The current course is putting a lot of distance between subjects we want to have strong integration, Hanyi especially.
I agree that Hanyi's southwestern concert project needs shoring up, but this current vote doesn't do that in the ways that are important, and if anything it doubles down on the root causes of its headaches. What we want to do is weave the narrative branches that have split apart back together, so we can streamline the narrative progression in a more integrated fashion. To boost the relevance and impact of Hanyi's concerts, and not have them skimmed over for lack of time. I'm not saying voting for the Central Valley offers that, because it doesn't; but if you're voting for Foundation for the sake of Hanyi's project, know that it's basically tripping into the pitfall that was set through poor planning on our and Yrsillar's part.
I'd like to see Hanyi's concerts be more central to the political buildup to our diplomatic mission, not relegated to a geographically and politically isolated corner of the province. There's no time for a kiddy pool training area for her to find her feet, and I trust she doesn't need it.
The cultural engagement and development Hanyi will be doing in the southwest is valuable work, and it has long-term relevance, but in the meantime, the here and now, we simply need more from her to make the narrative of her efforts sing true.
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[X] Focus your network building effort on the Central Valley (+1 to region rep on completion of the Hou Zhuang's gift project. 50% chance on completion of gaining a +1 rep boost with Thundering Hills or South River Jing region)
im changing my vote for the long game, and so that we might get some advanced warning if things start to go south (pun intended)
im changing my vote for the long game, and so that we might get some advanced warning if things start to go south (pun intended)
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Just some of my quick thoughts on this vote.
I think we should focus on the main bonuses rather then the side benefits when looking at this. While it would be nice to get the faction rep to the Foundation group up to 3 we won't be seeing that bonus until we complete Hou Zuang's gift project which at minimum will be another 2 turns but this is also true of the Central Valley bonus. Essentially this is a vote on how we want to setup our information network. Do we want to go deep with the Foundation group or expand out towards the Central Valley. For a spy/information network it makes more sense for us to spread out more. We want to cast a wide net so we can catch wind of anything important going on and then drill down into it with our own focus. If we are focused too much in one area we are likely to miss something.
Now if we look at the other bonuses we have either improvement to effect of Hanyi's concerts on Meng or potential rep boost in areas next to the Central Valley. Again, this is us working on our information network so it seems better to me to spread our influence even more than it is to give the concerts a boost which seems like a much narrower bonus for us to capitalize on.
I think we should focus on the main bonuses rather then the side benefits when looking at this. While it would be nice to get the faction rep to the Foundation group up to 3 we won't be seeing that bonus until we complete Hou Zuang's gift project which at minimum will be another 2 turns but this is also true of the Central Valley bonus. Essentially this is a vote on how we want to setup our information network. Do we want to go deep with the Foundation group or expand out towards the Central Valley. For a spy/information network it makes more sense for us to spread out more. We want to cast a wide net so we can catch wind of anything important going on and then drill down into it with our own focus. If we are focused too much in one area we are likely to miss something.
Now if we look at the other bonuses we have either improvement to effect of Hanyi's concerts on Meng or potential rep boost in areas next to the Central Valley. Again, this is us working on our information network so it seems better to me to spread our influence even more than it is to give the concerts a boost which seems like a much narrower bonus for us to capitalize on.
- Location
- The Space Between
we have real gains. We have +2 in the Southern (Reformist) Meng lands and all of the Wang lands. That's a healthy base.
Hanyi's project is actually not helpful in the context of the diplomatic summit or our job as a connection between Renxiang and those in the province who want to connect with the Heir in a less brutally-illuminated venue. Not directly helpful, at least.
Here's my main issue with advancing our support with the Foundations: We already have them in our corner. We don't need to consolidate further gains locally, we need to actually form a base for our province wide project.
Celestial Hills: -2
North River Jing: -1
Western Fens: -1
Eastern Plains: 0
South River Jing: -1
Foundations: 2
Thundering Hills: 1
Central Valley: 1
North River Jing: -1
Western Fens: -1
Eastern Plains: 0
South River Jing: -1
Foundations: 2
Thundering Hills: 1
Central Valley: 1
-Luo Clan: 1
--Imperial Conservatives (20%): -2
--Imperial Moderates (20%): 0
--Weilu Moderates (55%): 1
--Old Tribes (5%): 2
-Wang Clan: 1
--Imperial Moderates(40%): 0
--Imperial Conservatives (10%): -2
--Weilu Moderates (50%): 1
-Meng Clan: 0
-Diao Clan -1
-Jia Clan: 0
-Bao clan: 1
--Imperial Conservatives (20%): -2
--Imperial Moderates (20%): 0
--Weilu Moderates (55%): 1
--Old Tribes (5%): 2
-Wang Clan: 1
--Imperial Moderates(40%): 0
--Imperial Conservatives (10%): -2
--Weilu Moderates (50%): 1
-Meng Clan: 0
-Diao Clan -1
-Jia Clan: 0
-Bao clan: 1
We will need to get people on board with our Diplomatic Summit, and our job is that of a Spymaster/Diplomat. That involves beginning to establish networks in the Emerald Seas amongst the Lower Nobility and the Counts. It also involves convincing them that the Summit is valuable. The first steps of the Summit will likely be a light exchange of goods and knowledge, a Cultural Exchange rather than Trade Ties that don't have infrastructure to support them. We want to be able to get in the door with a lot of these places, and there's a numbered relationship system involved with that.
Here are the positive results we can reasonably reach with some of them-
1: Notice: One or more individuals within the organization have taken a liking toward you and may seek to aid you in minor situations
2: Mildly liked- Members will be positively biased toward you, with some individuals being moreso. Mild institutional notice
3: Liked- Members will be generally well disposed toward you and the organization may actively support you
It seems like it'd be relatively easy to set up a network in a group that has a 2 with us, but with only a 1 that may be more difficult. While it's true that a 3 may be better than a 1 for that purpose, is it a larger jump than 1 to 2? I don't believe so. Getting "Mild Institutional Notice" from 1 to 2 seems like a big deal, whether or not they support us actively. We're not looking for Active Support right now, we're looking for Passive Connections. The sorts of connections that facilitate understanding, and can be opened for communications.
To that end, gathering up a base with the Lower Nobles of the majority of Diao territory will be quite helpful. It has a central location, touches multiple major rivers, is the only region in which the Counts are at -1 with us, and are well known for their facilitation of trade. A Network set up here will be very helpful, as there's a lot of moving parts in Diao politics and a lot of connections between Central Valley and the other cultural regions. This has immediate dividends and synergy with the "Garden of Sinners" questline, and will assist in the shifting of Diao opinion as well. If we wish to unite the provinces, we need to make sure we're trending positive with at least some individuals of the Count Clans. That happens at 1, not 0.
By contrast, our first network being built up in The Foundations will be almost all local to our material interests. Rather than broadening our Connections, we're doubling down on those that already support us in a way that takes up the time and energy that could be used establishing connections to the rest of the province. I believe that a strong base of support in The Foundations will be good for our sister and good for our fief, but will we be able to do our job for Renxiang with nearly as much confidence and knowledge?
Here are my thoughts about Family in this regard:
Hanyi's project is separate from our project. Her gains may reflect well on us, and advance our cause. Our gains may reflect well on her, and advance her cause. I think intentionally warping our decisions to better serve our sister is pretty . . . uncomfy. I understand that Hanyi isn't the only reason to vote for The Foundations, as getting to 3 somewhere would be cool. Still, I'd rather branch out and be more equipped for our Primary Job rather than gain some more bonuses with the neighbors and for Hanyi. Plus I'm still thinking about that High Roll where we get a 2, 2, 2 in the primary Wang, Diao and Jia culture groups. That'd be so freaking good omg
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- Location
- Colorado
[X] Focus your network building effort on the Central Valley (+1 to region rep on completion of the Hou Zhuang's gift project. 50% chance on completion of gaining a +1 rep boost with Thundering Hills or South River Jing region)
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Ok, but my problem is that you are assuming your conclusion.
Why? Why do you think that a broad but shallow approach is superior to a narrow but deep one?
I think that a few locals that are actively disposed towards helping us is much better for our momentum than a general "oh, those folk over there? I guess they are cool" attitude across the province.
We are going to need help: immigration, construction, integration with local roads and markets- all of this stuff goes much, much better with people that are willing to actively help us being the ones we are shaking hands with. The places further away are going to help less simply because it requires projecting power further, across the territory of their rivals.
Plus, I expect civil war. Potentially within the province as well, as Shengua by her nature keeps pushing boundaries. So I would prefer actual allies to tentative good will. It puts us in a stronger position to negotiate with other blocks, and gives us a straightforward win condition of adding to our coalition rather than trying to get everyone to like us without a personal base of power.
I like the way are leaning into creating an emerald seas identity. The way I see it, we should build up strong local alliances for our own power and security while Shengua controls the province, and leveraging the new provincial identity to undermine the families who dislike us.
We are, at some point, going to need a clan that volunteers to be made an example of to prove to the others that we are not to be fucked with. I do not hold out any hope that we can successfully get everyone on our side with just diplomacy- material interests conflict too much.
I expect it to be very helpful for Hanyi, honestly. Power and experience and relevance- this is how she grows up and becomes our equal rather than our ward, an adult sister with power comparable to her mom.
So in the same way I would support our turtlesnek in his gardening, I want to support Hanyi in building audiences and worship. Her increases in power are something we can leverage a lot more directly than vague good will from Ducal clans.
It is more reliable, in any case, and less likely to have to be sacrificed against future needs.
Can you imagine a moose big enough that the ski village looks like a little hat on it's head, and the chairlifts run up to the points of the antlers?
Why? Why do you think that a broad but shallow approach is superior to a narrow but deep one?
I think that a few locals that are actively disposed towards helping us is much better for our momentum than a general "oh, those folk over there? I guess they are cool" attitude across the province.
We are going to need help: immigration, construction, integration with local roads and markets- all of this stuff goes much, much better with people that are willing to actively help us being the ones we are shaking hands with. The places further away are going to help less simply because it requires projecting power further, across the territory of their rivals.
Plus, I expect civil war. Potentially within the province as well, as Shengua by her nature keeps pushing boundaries. So I would prefer actual allies to tentative good will. It puts us in a stronger position to negotiate with other blocks, and gives us a straightforward win condition of adding to our coalition rather than trying to get everyone to like us without a personal base of power.
I like the way are leaning into creating an emerald seas identity. The way I see it, we should build up strong local alliances for our own power and security while Shengua controls the province, and leveraging the new provincial identity to undermine the families who dislike us.
We are, at some point, going to need a clan that volunteers to be made an example of to prove to the others that we are not to be fucked with. I do not hold out any hope that we can successfully get everyone on our side with just diplomacy- material interests conflict too much.
I expect it to be very helpful for Hanyi, honestly. Power and experience and relevance- this is how she grows up and becomes our equal rather than our ward, an adult sister with power comparable to her mom.
So in the same way I would support our turtlesnek in his gardening, I want to support Hanyi in building audiences and worship. Her increases in power are something we can leverage a lot more directly than vague good will from Ducal clans.
It is more reliable, in any case, and less likely to have to be sacrificed against future needs.
Can you imagine a moose big enough that the ski village looks like a little hat on it's head, and the chairlifts run up to the points of the antlers?
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
[X] Focus your network building efforts on the Foundations (+1 to region rep on completion of the Hou Zuang's gift project, Improves effect of Hanyi's concerts on Meng projects)
Care more about Hanyi than generic rep increases
Care more about Hanyi than generic rep increases
We almost never do what Sixiang suggests and we actively asked them for their input.
Hanyi is important but we have done a lot to support her. What have we done to support Sixiang? It feels rude to ignore them at this point.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Human politics and trade are, to be fair, areas that Sixiang does not have very good insight into as a spirit of art and dreams.
We *should* do as they say more when we are in areas where they have expertise, but I'd prefer not to take the worst of both worlds by listening to them when they don't have valuable input and ignoring them when they do.
That feels rather dismissive.
Sixiang is almost certainly vastly better at marketing ideas and constructing political narratives than LQ is. A big part of art is having emotional effects on the audience and we need people to be emotionally invested in our success. Meanwhile LQ is... bad at relating to random strangers.
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- Location
- The Space Between
well that's actually an assumption that 3 is a deep connection, and that 2 is a shallow one. I actually feel that such an assumption isn't the correct way to frame it. These aren't interpersonal relationships, they're by their nature broad and generalized. I find it difficult to imagine having a "deep" connection to any broad group of peoples, since Ling Qi simply isn't attached to any collective in that way. She even rejects the modern principles of blood-family. Depth seems a strange way to perceive a relationship defined as "Members will be generally well disposed toward you and the organization may actively support you".
No. The way I view it I see 2 as a sort of step past a bottleneck. -1, 0, and 1 are very shallow and limited to a small number of interested individuals alongside generalized indifference. -3, -2, 2 and 3 have "Mild Institutional Notice" that opens Connections to these broad groups, in either a positive or negative light. These have impacts when we're trying to interact in the ecosystem beyond just individuals. -6, -5, -4, 4, 5 and 6 are the bonds at which groups are Declared for or against. They've picked a side, and are going to do something about it.
In that respect, for our actual job as Spymaster for Renxiang we do actually want to get out of the shallows and into the middle ground. Ideally we reach Declared status at some point, but honestly we need to open Connections in order to get there. Without Connection there cannot be accurate Communication. Without Communication, we'll not be able to forge a deeper relationship with any broad group.
Getting to Bond 3 from 2 doesn't seem to be as important as getting to Bond 2 from Bond 1 for our job as Spymaster. I think that getting to 3 may be better for our Fief and may be better for Hanyi but, frankly speaking, The Foundations aren't nearly as influential a group in the Emerald Seas as the Central Valley region is. The Foundations are, functionally, the backwoods of the backwoods. They don't have the ancient grandeur of The Western Fens or Eastern Plains. They don't have the Imperial sensibilities of the Jing River Valleys nor the Celestial Hills. They're not as isolated as the Thundering Hills, but on a flow chart of "Important Low Noble Groups of the Province" The Foundations is likely second to last. Which isn't to say they're unimportant, but I do think Central Valley is likely rank 1 for our Spymaster Job.
Central Valley is literally the Center of the Emerald Seas. They're neighbors to most of the culture groups in the Emerald Seas, and are the culture group out of which the primary Cai supporting Hui-era Count rose. They have access to the majority of the major river systems of Emerald Seas and are involved with the trade of both goods and information. Establishing a network here should be a top priority for our Spymaster job, regardless of the additional benefits. However, there are also additional benefits.
One of the benefits is that the Diao are the only Count clan that is at -1 with us. Some individuals within the Diao have taken notice in a negative way, and establishing a network in the primary region those individuals will be working is very helpful. The sabotage of Hanyi's performance was organized in this region, and whether or not there's a Diao at the root of it this is the region we can expect more troubles to come from.
An additional reason is that their trade of information isn't simply information coming to our ears, but information going out as well. Before any construction, immigration, integration or other major deals can occur there needs to be some basic Cultural Exchange with the White Sky in order for there to be desire to engage with them. We will need to be pumping out positive information about them, and spreading that information around to help focus on the virtues of The White Sky so that they can be accepted as a civilized polity with which we can form Trade Relations with. This information will be pumped out, but it can be ignored or otherwise discarded if only individuals are engaging with such things. At rank 2, the "Mild Institutional Notice" will allow us to get in the door of places that may otherwise be totally indifferent (or feel threatened, such as how that priestess felt during Hanyi's first performance).
In addition to that, there's a roll to see if we absolute high roll into achieving "Mild Institutional Notice" with the primary culture group of the Jia (Thundering Hills). Getting 3/6 primary Count Culture Groups to notice us in a positive manner is fantastic, and while that's not necessarily going to translate to half the province it does allow us to establish solid networks in roughly half of the Counties of Emerald Seas. Sewing the seeds of these networks now allows us to have a much broader power bloc in the future as the Jia and Wang continue to settle into and develop their Counties. Unlike the more stagnant areas of the Emerald Seas, these three Counties are the ones with the most change going on in them, and thus the most room for us to grow alongside them. If we hit that high-roll we'll be in excellent shape for the future goal of Uniting the Province.
I view that goal of "Uniting the Province" to be one that is necessarily a broad set of Connections that are then made deep. The Emerald Seas have extremely well-developed/Independent Counts due to the consistent central weakness of their Ducals. The Weilu were isolationist and typically allowed the Counts to run things. The Xi were warlords that fed their vassal Counts much land, power and peoples until the point came that they could no longer dominate them. The Hui completely failed to govern in a centralized way, instead taking much of the credit of successful Count governance even as Bandit Kingdoms flourished and Ogodei ran rampant. There is depth in these surviving (and newly risen) Counts that we cannot hope to match from the start, which necessarily means we either must start in the shallows or begin to undermine that depth. For the younger counts and counties the depth isn't nearly as deep, but the Meng actually delve back into pre-Imperial ancient times.
So what's the plan here? To do as the Imperial Warlords of other provinces done and establish a power bloc with which to dominate the rest? To try to dislodge power structures that have survived longer than 3 Ducals and predate the Empire? Or to attempt to reach backwards towards Tsu, and his ability to unite the people not through conquest but instead through Tea, Agriculture and Mutual Respect?
Ah.
I see.
So we're coming at this from fundamentally different perspectives. You don't believe in a Neo-Weilu that can embrace an echo of Tsu. You're looking to lean into Imperialism, and wrestle the province into control as the Xi once did. Or to undermine and control through the webs of intrigue that the Hui once spun.
I believe you're mistaken about the immigration, construction and integration issues on the front end. That's not what should happen first at the Diplo Summit. The first thing to exchange is Cultural Information. We need to establish a Connection and some rudimentary understanding before we can engage with Trade and Immigration which require infrastructure that does not exist, and is unlikely to be built in the middle of the ongoing War. The task isn't to get allies on board with immigration or trade immediately, it's to get even Imperial Moderates to say something along the lines of "Oh, those White Sky? They are the rumored Civilized Barbarians. They exhibit many virtues, even if they're ultimately still barbarous." For that sort of acceptance, we actually do need broad information networks to distribute and knead the threads of information reaching the broader province. We cannot allow the weeds of bigotry to grow strong simply because we prefer to grow taller more quickly. We should make sure we're able to contest propaganda with our own in every cultural group we can manage. Division is sewn and grown as surely as Unity. The Emerald Seas is at a point of unprecedented willingness to Connect itself into a whole again, and we shouldn't squander the chance by assuming the worst.
The Chu assumed the worst of the Emerald Seas, and were shocked that their ill behavior was not tolerated in the slightest. This is a new era for the Emerald Seas, or it can be. Let's not make the mistakes of the past, when Tsu is there to provide an example to build off of.
Here you even compare the power of our sister approaching cyan to be more directly leverageable than the good will of huge amounts of lower nobles and the Counts themselves (you say Ducals but I assume you meant Counts). That's so . . controlling. The only reason that such would be true is if diplomacy truly failed to precipitate any rainfall whatsoever. The Counties and the nobles that populate them are incredibly, majestically wealthy in skill and talent and labor and wealth. Even a fraction of good will, applied broadly, can reap a grand harvest. What you're talking about sounds like pre-Tsu agriculture, where you need to waste energy wrestling the weeds you allowed to bloom through negligence when instead you could have simply negotiated with them, made them your fences, and empowered them in a mutually beneficial way. So much struggle for a fraction of the dividends. Domination is a mighty waste when Voluntary Connections can be forged.
I think that's the root of it. A belief that there can be a hard-fought primarily Voluntary set of connections to unite the province which isn't reliant on warmongering and making examples of some of our own citizenry. We're supposed to be better than Shenhua, not a repeat. It seems like you've given up hope before we've even started, rejected the cultural roots of the province before we've even gotten around to exploring them.
I think your fears are valid, and not unfounded. I just also, I duno, I believe that trust has to start being built somewhere? And even if the connections are shallow for now, and the actions small, the ability for the Emerald Seas to trust one another (and itself) again does need to be built everywhere just a little at a time. I don't believe bonds of 1 will be enough to start laying those foundations, and even if we lay them faster at 3 I think we can only truly begin laying them at 2. While I think we can achieve our long term goals through either option, I feel that we'll be needing to rank up the Central Valley pretty soon even if we don't do it now. We'd be putting off that work in favor of some small advantage for Hanyi, and I don't believe that's best for the province or our liege. Especially if there's a chance we can also get a Thundering Hills connection. The potential for baseline networks in 3/6 of the primary County-sized Cultures is just, so tasty.
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[X] Focus your network building effort on the Central Valley (+1 to region rep on completion of the Hou Zhuang's gift project. 50% chance on completion of gaining a +1 rep boost with Thundering Hills or South River Jing region)
Hmmm, the Center Valley option has a lot of benefits, and so I wouldn't mind it being chosen. But let's look at it carefully.
First, commerce. The Center Valley is indeed a trade hub in the Emerald Seas, increasing rep there would certainly help us in the long term. But the main transport medium is still going to be the rivers.
The North River is at -1, but the Bao are interested and we have a contact, so they can take care of it.
Now, while getting it at 0 would be good, the South River isn't the closest river to us. That would be in Meng lands, connecting with the North River as well. So a way to improve the rep on Western Ferns would help our commerce as well. And of course, there is a 75% chance of South River remaining at -1 anyway.
Second, as in cultivation, incressing rep is harder the higher it is. There will be plenty of opportunities to increase rep to 0 and +1. In fact, I'm sure it will happen naturally simply by continuing to succeed ang generate results. Achieving rep +3 is far rarer and harder.
Third. And this is what I care most about. Securing active help from local nobles is truly invaluable. Even if it's in a couple turns when we finish the other parts of this Gift Project.
We have the Old/New Road Quest. Then, likely, the Artisans Quests. There will be numerous times when we will need information on the region, or collaboration to move goods quickly, or help battling off some threat, or meet to decide on plans for the region. And I could continue.
I would much prefer having local nobles actively helping us through all of it than to have a more remote river region being indifferent towards us. If we even get that much.
The Fundations option just gives so much more immediate utility while still giving plenty of benefits on the long term.
I really want us to do everything we can to assure the prosperity of our fief first, before trying to expand the cultural movement overmuch.
That's a project that will take years anyway, and I feel that many people are too focused in "getting in the door" eveywhere at once, instead of suceeding on a few regions and counties first and then expanding.
We don't need immediate provincial appproval for the diplomatic summit to suceed. The best way to "show the virtues of the White Sky" is to stablish a working relationship with them, even if it has a shorter reach, only with our immediate neighbours. And for that we need stability in our fief. Announcing our accomplishments to others comes after.
People are being too hasty, overambitious and paranoid. No one is going to sabotage us for a -1 rep.
First, commerce. The Center Valley is indeed a trade hub in the Emerald Seas, increasing rep there would certainly help us in the long term. But the main transport medium is still going to be the rivers.
The North River is at -1, but the Bao are interested and we have a contact, so they can take care of it.
Now, while getting it at 0 would be good, the South River isn't the closest river to us. That would be in Meng lands, connecting with the North River as well. So a way to improve the rep on Western Ferns would help our commerce as well. And of course, there is a 75% chance of South River remaining at -1 anyway.
Second, as in cultivation, incressing rep is harder the higher it is. There will be plenty of opportunities to increase rep to 0 and +1. In fact, I'm sure it will happen naturally simply by continuing to succeed ang generate results. Achieving rep +3 is far rarer and harder.
Third. And this is what I care most about. Securing active help from local nobles is truly invaluable. Even if it's in a couple turns when we finish the other parts of this Gift Project.
We have the Old/New Road Quest. Then, likely, the Artisans Quests. There will be numerous times when we will need information on the region, or collaboration to move goods quickly, or help battling off some threat, or meet to decide on plans for the region. And I could continue.
I would much prefer having local nobles actively helping us through all of it than to have a more remote river region being indifferent towards us. If we even get that much.
The Fundations option just gives so much more immediate utility while still giving plenty of benefits on the long term.
I really want us to do everything we can to assure the prosperity of our fief first, before trying to expand the cultural movement overmuch.
That's a project that will take years anyway, and I feel that many people are too focused in "getting in the door" eveywhere at once, instead of suceeding on a few regions and counties first and then expanding.
We don't need immediate provincial appproval for the diplomatic summit to suceed. The best way to "show the virtues of the White Sky" is to stablish a working relationship with them, even if it has a shorter reach, only with our immediate neighbours. And for that we need stability in our fief. Announcing our accomplishments to others comes after.
People are being too hasty, overambitious and paranoid. No one is going to sabotage us for a -1 rep.
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