Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[ ] Ask why not all of their people seem to be sentient

Something I wanna know. Will try to think of more questions once I'm off the road.

It's important, in my opinion, to try to establish both a timeline/timescale upon which undergrounders operate as well as the direction of their Holy Lands. They're simple questions that shouldn't be difficult to answer, and shouldn't be easy to misinterpret
I mean, Occam's Razor says to me that it would just be "down," where the impurities are thicker and they are further away from the toxic environment of the surface.
 
Ling Qi took a calming breath, but refused to let her gaze waver. "...Funny, I aspire to the same."
Ling Qi, you are a walking romantic problem.
"...They make me itch. That person might not be like that Kongyou, but I think they're still a nightmare of a sort… someone's nightmare anyway," Sixiang said.

They weren't human? Ling Qi wondered. Knowing imperial law she doubted even Shenhua could have a spirit treated like a human.

"You know that's not really a line Ling Qi," Sixiang said. "But let me put it this way. I don't think that person has ever cultivated with a spirit stone."

Ling Qi pondered that as she rejoined the party. A follower of an older cultivation way? She wouldn't have thought such a person would be so close to the Duchess.
I think I'm missing what Sixiang is driving at there.
 
Ling Qi nodded slowly, working out their words in her mind. If her Grace had troubled herself to the extent of being late… there were more things than she could discern at work. Perhaps there was good reason not to place any spotlight on her. "If you are to tutor me, may I ask what it is you do?"

"I am a sculptor," Shu Yue said. "Who makes art of hollows and empty things, which wait to be filled. This is what I do."
I'm very curious when Shu Yue became Shenhua's apprentice. Because this seems like the sort of things a Hui would do to make a tool to fight other Hui, or what happens when a talent is trampled on by the Hui, and has sufficient luck to survive long enough to start getting revenge.
They showed no sign of being either impressed or disappointed in her words. The older cultivator raised their hands, tapping their fingertips together in thought. Ling Qi struggled not to stare, like the rest of them Shu Yue's hands were thin and stretched, almost like the legs of a spider, and their nails were painted a poisonous purple.

She still couldn't feel a single thing. No aura, no whisper of domain, just a quiet and serene emptiness.
That seems like the sort of thing you get from being quasi adopted by a next of spiders, and being given tasks that involve fighting other Hui, which leads to being given boons that make you more spider like.

The older cultivator nodded once, and then was gone. No beam of light or swirling shadow, just… ceasing to exist. The air did not even move to fill the space their body had left. Because it felt as if it had never been disturbed in the first place.

She wondered what Sixiang made of them.

"...They make me itch. That person might not be like that Kongyou, but I think they're still a nightmare of a sort… someone's nightmare anyway," Sixiang said.

They weren't human? Ling Qi wondered. Knowing imperial law she doubted even Shenhua could have a spirit treated like a human.

"You know that's not really a line Ling Qi," Sixiang said. "But let me put it this way. I don't think that person has ever cultivated with a spirit stone."

Ling Qi pondered that as she rejoined the party. A follower of an older cultivation way? She wouldn't have thought such a person would be so close to the Duchess. She moved through the party for a time, engaging in small talk; about the tournament, about the plans Renxiang and she were making, about more personal matters.
Why do I get the feeling Shu Yue cultivated using nightmares as a resources, and became the Nightmare of the Hui?

 
We need to know more about Shishigui culture and existence, starting with the big stuff.

[X] What is the nature of their cultivation system? How do they use the concentrated and refined impurity, when imperial mortals are sickened by it?

[X] Are the shishigui open to a future where both imperial and underground societies coexist peacefully for mutual benefit?
 
As they've told LQ a bunch, the difference between "human" and "spirit", especially at the higher levels of cultivation, is somewhat questionable.

And this is likely even more so for the older cultivation methods, which drew much more heavily on weird spirit shit.
Oh I knew that about higher levels, it was the lower levels that were confusing me.
Never cultivated with a spirit stone implies that well... they never did even before Shu Yue became the sort of high rank that blurs the boundary.
 
It sort of feels like a reverse Great Spirit to me. Like, instead of Sixiang being an offshot of the Dreaming Moon the Shishigui unite their spirits in one entity, like the sacrificial technique CRX encountered. It's like if everyone in the Emerald Seas were so tired of the Hui they created a Shenhua, or became a Shenhua, or could become a Shenhua when they needed to. Like a religion where the unified faith forms the god.

And sacrifice is key to the Shishigui, the Ha-Yith-Kai thought it might win against the Duchess but didn't consider the price worth the sacrifice to do so. It's all about price and return, and convincing enough Shishigui that the sacrifice is worth it. The underclass in the village we saw weren't willing to pick up their bootstraps but their warriors were willing to suffer 'meldings' with parasites for combat prowess, their leaders thrust spikes into their heads and their Cyan was a being of pure pain, all to a purpose. So Ya is the god/idea/national identity/religion the Lith are trying to convince it's citizenry it's worth sacrificing for. The being that fought Sima Jiao was even called Faith, it's in their Way to sacrifice for something greater and understanding that is how we can make a real difference in this war.
Mmm, we shouldn't necessarily focus too much on Ya-Lith-Kai - if nothing else because the Ha-Yith-Kai aren't them, and presumably only have so much inside knowledge on their politics.

However, if Tcho-Ri believes that their actions are part of a broader political strategy to build support among the different city states in ES, then perhaps a better question is:

[] Ask about the different cities/factions of the [shishigui - we don't have a name for the whole?] and what they want?

Try to get a broader picture. Who might be sympathetic towards Ya-Lith-Kai? Who isn't? How might we avoid the underground front expanding?
But does the larger society matter right now? We're not interested in the larger Polar Nation when meeting with the White Sky just like the White Sky don't much care about the larger Empire. The Ya-Lith-Kai are building support in the tunnels, but what are we hoping to learn from asking about tunnels that we can't glean from context? Does their efforts to convince other Shishigui mean anything to us other than that they're spreading their faith trying to incite others to join? We have three questions, lets ask ones that matter and we'll get more world building as we act on those things. We should be asking things that matter to the war, about their cultivation, society and Ya-Lith-Kai specifically, and how they differ from us, because that's what we'll interact with in the story for now.
 
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[X] Ask for an example life-story of an average citizen.
[X] Ask how Art/Music/Entertainment look like.

..I'm gonna be short because sleeep.
 
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But does the larger society matter right now? We're not interested in the larger Polar Nation when meeting with the White Sky just like the White Sky don't much care about the larger Empire. The Ya-Lith-Kai are building support in the tunnels, but what are we hoping to learn from asking about tunnels that we can't glean from context? Does their efforts to convince other Shishigui mean anything to us other than that they're spreading their faith trying to incite others to join? We have three questions, lets ask ones that matter and we'll get more world building as we act on those things. We should be asking things that matter to the war, about their cultivation, society and Ya-Lith-Kai specifically, and how they differ from us, because that's what we'll interact with in the story for now.
Except we aren't talking to the Ya-lith-kai - we're talking with a completely different faction. If we were trying to understand the White Sky by talking to other people in the Polar Nation then understanding their relations and how they fit together is going to be a major part of it.

Mmm, something like [] How does Ha of the three hearts and Ya of the seven part sword differ? could be a decent probe here, since those names suggest significant ideological differences that could be a useful springboard for politics, culture, and history.
 
[ ] Ask why not all of their people seem to be sentient

Something I wanna know. Will try to think of more questions once I'm off the road.


I mean, Occam's Razor says to me that it would just be "down," where the impurities are thicker and they are further away from the toxic environment of the surface.
here's a quote:

"The blood of the World Corpse flows sluggish from her wounds there."

World Corpse is the Unnamed Mother, that's obvious. If the important thing for them is that blood of the Mother flows freely, then the most obvious Holy Land would probably be The Grave of the Sun.

My question is thus, which Imperial Province are the Holy Lands beneath, or are the Holy Lands deeper into Mother and related to wounds much older than the Empire was involved in.


We know of an everliving "god" of the "Corpse World". The Sunflower Demon was made of mass sacrifice into a . . . something. That something, and it's creation, remind me of the katamari balls of "fuck you" that the undergrounders roll themselves into when pressed hard enough. I could see the Jungle of ever present conflict and life being the Holy Land of these undergrounders. Constant cultivator conflict from all the way back to the time of the Sage Emperor, it's probably really nice for them down there.

I could see the Holy Lands being beneath Heavenly Peaks. The Peaks are artificial constructs built by the Dragons, and the wounds made in Mother during their construction would run deeper and older than just about any area of the modern Empire. There were deeply terrible things done in those places by both dragons and humans during the dynastic wars. Could be a holy land.

But I think that these things that are anathema to our kind, who the overworld is anathema to in turn, I think their holy land is almost certainly the land in which the transgressive cult of taboo violation made their impact most felt. Golden Fields.


We know that Ebon Rivers is familiar with the undergrounders. Jiao was seemingly ignorant of them, which seems about right given that the Peaks aren't a piece of Mother and thus any undergrounder civilization would have to be beneath and around the foundations of the Peaks. The Roots of Xiangmen have some set of them. If their Cities are equivalent to Counties, then there are probably three Counties worth of undergrounder feeding from the wounds in Mother dug by Xiangmen. That's a lot. Then we go to how badly the Jungle was wounded, and how torn up the Bai can get, and the pre-Twilight GF was incredibly warlike both before and after becoming Imperial.

I think the Twilight King was involved with the undergrounders. The way he Katamari Ball'd his way across the province, the terribly transgressive and creation-violating nature of the Eclipse Cult that seduced him, the way that GF used to be one of the most productive and lively areas of the Imperial overworld and is now near completely anathema to overworlder survival. Yeah. I think it would make sense for GF to have been made a paradise for the undergrounder through the "incredibly holy" acts of one of their gods getting an Overworlder to carve such a mighty wound in Mother. An inversion of Imperial history, in which times of peace and prosperity are times of woe in the underground and our suffering and calamity brings prosperity to them.

That's why I want to confirm or deny the theory that their Holy Land is the GF post-Twilight. It ties the prosperity of their rulers to the conflict and suffering of ours.



It also gives us a speculative timeline for the undergrounders, which we can create by mirroring the Imperial timeline.

In any case: this is the sort of question I expect Imperial Arrogance to not ask, or at least not understand the ramifications of. We're all about the footfalls that echo beyond hearing, and what would their culture be if not the echoes of our own inverted in this theory of their cultivation? Grand cultivator wars within the Empire would bring prosperity to the underground indirectly, and the underground would indirectly suffer whenever Imperial provinces began healing and stabilizing. How the Empire acts then has ramifications on how the undergrounders reacted, which is Yang and Yin yes? The Active and Reactive civilizations.

if an undergrounder acted in the Cult of the Eclipse and the Twilight Emperor reacted to undergrounder maneuvers, that's an additional layer of violation and transgression involved in the story of the Twilight Emperor.

There's also a much more serious threat if they view this transgressive event as one of the most holy events in their people's histories. How much could they profit from an Imperial Civil War. How much would they despise a stabilizing or peace-making force. The Empire would never think to ask if it was possible for this mirror civilization could be preying on them in their weakest moments, but I think that there's a strong possibility that these issues echo far past the borders of Emerald Seas.
 
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"You think they're still taking volunteers for up top?" the scrawny one asked, grinding his teeth in a way that she couldn't help but interpret as anxious. "Just a couple meldings like the Caretakers doesn't seem so bad."

"Stop resisting the instincts," one instructor barked, swatting a second realm who had stumbled mid-combat maneuver with the padded rod held in its paws.

"Cooperate with your meld!" another barked

"Harness the pain."

"Accept the fear."

Liquid impurity poured forth from the tears, something squirming inside of those wounds, and the creature's bald head was marked by spikes of deep green metal driven into her skull in three even rows from front to back. The largest nails protruded from where eyes should have been and gleamed with oily light.

Before her on the slab lay another shishigui stripped wholly bare. The creature's ribs and abdomen were flayed open, and as she watched, the rotting creature thrust an arm into the rising column and ripped forth a writhing mass. Shot through with veins of phosphorescent light, it resembled a squealing, toothy worm covered in wriggling, hairy cillia.

[x] What is a melding? What is the "squealing, toothy worm covered in wriggling, hairy cillia" the Lith meld with, and why would it grant instincts at the cost of some portion of the Lith's life?
 
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It'd be cool to dig into the sacrifice stuff, but I have no idea how to do that in one reasonable question
There is another issue with that: game/player disconnect

As players, we want to know about the sacrifice/cultivation stuff, 'cuz relevant and curiosity, but in the world of the game, that line of questioning has already been asked by someone else linked to the Cai, it's too basic to not have been. As such, this information should be available to Ling Qi if she asks CRX.

As players, we have to deal with things like 'screen time' and 'narrative space' and 'Yrs has a physical limit to his writing speed, (the poor hooman being.... such restrictions :'()

So yeah, not sure what the best path forward here is. Do pick the questions we want answered as players; trying to learn the basics? Or do we roleplay as Ling Qi, who knows that she will be able to learn stuff like how their cultivation works from other sources, just by asking CRX directly?

Honestly... I'm leaning towards us roleplaying as Ling Qi and then begging Yrs to give us an infodump update where CRX just tells us the basic stuff that the Cai already know by this point.
 
"My packmates want a pup," the scrawny thing admitted. "But not many are awakening any more. Waiting list goes on for years. You volunteer, you can skip the line, get a place in the city."
This, from waaaay back, seems interesting to me to ask about. Ling Qi's concerned with Family. And it seems our Yith and Lith friends experience it in a different fashion. Although, maybe not so different after all? Half of Ling Qi's family is by adoption, after all....

[X] Ask about Awakenings and Yith packs.

(How is babby formed)
 
[X] Ask about why consensus matters to Ya and the Minds.

This would continue on Tcho-Ri's last line by questioning why the Ya-Lith-Kai are warring against us in the first place. It might also give insights into the workings of their god, the upper echelons of their leadership, and what they're trying to achieve. Tcho-Ri has expressed a lot of knowledge about the Ya-Lith-Kai so far, even going out on a limb at guessing their thoughts, so lets hear the details from this knowledgeable politician. We know a lot about their society and base cultivation from the Underworld Descent so lets hear about what moves their society as a whole since that's clearly a major factor.
 
[x] What is a melding? What is the "squealing, toothy worm covered in wriggling, hairy cillia" the Lith meld with, and why would it grant instincts at the cost of some portion of the Lith's life?

[X] Ask about Awakenings and Yith packs.

[X] What is the World Corpse and why is it called that?

EDIT: Screw it, I'm gonna approval vote for now. Also I know the World Corpse is the Mother but I wanna hear the creation story from the Shishigui side of things and see how it differs. Should be fascinating.

[X] What is the nature of their cultivation system? How do they use the concentrated and refined impurity, when imperial mortals are sickened by it?

[X] Ask for clarification of what Minds and Eyes are and how they function in Shishigui society.
 
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[X] Ask about Awakenings and Yith packs.
[X] How do Ha of Three Hearts and Ya of the Seven Part Sword differ in Way/Ideology?
 
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Seems pretty clear that Shishigui names are meant to convey some level of information about what is being named:
Tcho-Ri : Role (Mouth of the God) - Public Name (Ri)
Ha-yith-kai : God (Ha-of-Three-Hearts) - People (Yith) - City (Kai)
Ya-lith-kai : God (Ya-the-Seven-Part-Sword) - People (Lith) - City (Kai)

Based on the context here you could make some assumptions about the names of the 'gods' as well. We know that the Ya are explicitly more warlike and larger than than the Ha, so maybe the parts could be interpreted like this:
Ha-of-Three-Hearts : Ha (name) - of Three (size/number of cities) - Hearts (cultural descriptor/Description of collective purpose?)
Ya-the-Seven-Part-Sword: Ya (name) - the Seven Part (size/number of cities - we know this to be at least 7) - Sword (cultural descriptor/Description of collective purpose?)

I wonder what the Shishigui would make of the name "Ling Qi" then, if interpreted in the same way


As for questions, I feel like we are still missing some clear picture of the power structure and flow in Shishigui society, and if we're gonna be so involved with them I feel like it would be nice to understand how they make decisions.



This sounds like leadership so:

[X] Ask for clarification of what Minds and Eyes are and how they function in Shishigui society.

And personally cause I like maps (also they do give good insights into politics):

[X] Ask if the Ha-Yith-Kai have any sort of a map of the underground areas that they would be able to share?

It'd be cool to dig into the sacrifice stuff, but I have no idea how to do that in one reasonable question
Y'know, after thinking about it, I realized that this guy (or one of the other Shishigui from his city) has probably already drawn a map of everything they know upon 'request' from Shenhua. The names, locations and descriptions of cities are fundamental intel that our side would want and Shenhua forced them to surrender a while ago
 
Adhoc vote count started by Juli Freixi on Sep 3, 2021 at 6:48 PM, finished with 56 posts and 14 votes.

  • [X] Ask about Awakenings and Yith packs.
    [X] Ask about underground networks below emerald sea which Shishigui use to communicate and travel between each city.
    [X] Ask for clarification of what Minds and Eyes are and how they function in Shishigui society.
    [X] What is the nature of their cultivation system? How do they use the concentrated and refined impurity, when imperial mortals are sickened by it?
    [x] What is a melding? What is the "squealing, toothy worm covered in wriggling, hairy cillia" the Lith meld with, and why would it grant instincts at the cost of some portion of the Lith's life?
    [X]What is the nature of their cultivation system
    [X] What do you think the best way to deny them this consensus would be?
    [X] Ask about lifestyle of the Shishigui to understand what they do and how their community works.
    [X] Ask about previous contacts between upper people/spirits and shishigui.
    [X] Ask shishigui under The Wall and Ice People.
    [X] Ask about the different cities/factions of the [shishigui - we don't have a name for the whole?] and what they want?
    [X] Ask why not all of their people seem to be sentient
    [X] Ask if the Ha-Yith-Kai have any sort of a map of the underground areas that they would be able to share?
    [X] Are the shishigui open to a future where both imperial and underground societies coexist peacefully for mutual benefit?
    [X] Ask for an example life-story of an average citizen.
    [X] Ask how Art/Music/Entertainment look like.
    [X] What are your kind as a whole called?
    [X] Ask about why consensus matters to Ya and the Minds.
    [X] What is the World Corpse and why is it called that?
 
[X] Ask about Awakenings and Yith packs.

[X] What goods do your cities offer for trade, and what would you seek in return for trade?

I'm surprised that I'm apparently the first to be writing in a question about their economics. Trading with these people will be essential to integrating them into the province and the Empire as a whole in the long term, will enrich both them and Ling Qi, and demonstrate the value of submission to the Cai to the rest of their race. A more broad-minded Ling Qi can also move fast to get House Ling a foothold in their markets.
 
[X] What is the nature of their cultivation system? How do they use the concentrated and refined impurity, when imperial mortals are sickened by it?
[X] What goods do your cities offer for trade, and what would you seek in return for trade?
 
[X] Ask about Awakenings and Yith packs.

[X] Ask for clarification of what Minds and Eyes are and how they function in Shishigui society.

[x] What is a melding? What is the "squealing, toothy worm covered in wriggling, hairy cillia" the Lith meld with, and why would it grant instincts at the cost of some portion of the Lith's life?
[X] What is the nature of their cultivation system? How do they use the concentrated and refined impurity, when imperial mortals are sickened by it?
 
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