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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I am not the vote maker here, but this is a very high-risk high-reward situation.

An actual presence in the elemental planes can open up a lot of doors, such as more direct interference against the Brazen throne's activities. We have to whether the attacks and retaliations, but we have more than a foot in the door here now.
 
Okay, back at home in front of a screen.
Azel said:
1. This is not their homebase, but an outlying settlement. It's generally considered rude to invite envoys to places where they would be getting shot at when approaching. Their capital, which is currently under attack, is warded though.

2. Militarily, they only have one base left that really matters, which is their capital. The Efreeti-aligned Salamanders did a real number on them and managed to overrun two smaller outposts outright.

3. Their fleet is pretty much irrelevant at this point. Most weaponry was stripped from the ships to defend the capital and they lost their only two spelljammers in the fighting.


Also, if you want to send any PCs along with the Imperial Air Force, keep in mind that they will primarily function as envoys. Amrelath for one is absolutely not interested in finding out how good the Salamanders are at shooting flying targets with their bombards.
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Oof.

Okay. So. The main benefits of getting them are:
1. A full Clan of Salamanders, who we can use as a basis to get more Salamander Clans. If one bends the knee more will follow and all that.

2. They have a fully warded base in the Plane of Fire which we can use as our official beachhead. Not just us, but also the Shaitan and the Djinn. Granted, they will have to come later since we really need to show the Imperium's power here rather than the power of its allies.
Azel said:
Well, you have to bail them out first. They are currently putting everything they've got into defending themselves, as the Brass Scales clan is getting a lot of war material from the Efreeti.


On that note, keep in mind that the Old Gods don't like their trees getting destroyed, so growing one on an active battlefield would be not the greatest idea. Not that the tree would change much.
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A Heart Tree would be for after this conflict over. Strategically they don't matter at all to the system, it's far more of a political statement instead. "The Imperator is here to stay."
Zavvnao said:
I am not the vote maker here, but this is a very high-risk high-reward situation.

An actual presence in the elemental planes can open up a lot of doors, such as more direct interference against the Brazen throne's activities. We have to whether the attacks and retaliations, but we have more than a foot in the door here now.
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Definitely. This is one of those places that we need to sink a lot of resources into defending, but at the same time it's also worth defending.
 
We could also use this as an opportunity to field test some of the anti-efreeti stuff we've tossed around without throwing what we're doing in their faces.

Kill boxes composed of brown Moldwretches, feral Calathgars, Ironrot Lichen, and some Pixie Circles would be absolute hell for invading fire creatures. If the Pixie Circles can be attuned to wardstones in a way that lets them use their hostile teleport ability to rearrange enemy troops it gets even worse.
 
Beyond high risk, the cost of declining has to be measured as well.

What is the worst case scenario of accepting?
If the worst case scenario for accepting outways the cost of declining then there is no reason to decline
 
quelthias said:
Beyond high risk, the cost of declining has to be measured as well.

What is the worst case scenario of accepting?
If the worst case scenario for accepting outways the cost of declining then there is no reason to decline
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So, best case scenario? We get an entire clan of Salamanders to bend the knee, which is huge. Typically they bow to no one, and only follow the Efreeti because of a knife at their throats. This then paves the way for other Salamander clans to follow suit. And, of course, a major beachhead into the Plane of Fire.

Worst case scenario? Our forces are stretched dangerously thin, and the Efreeti show up to support their salamander minions, forcing us to retreat with losses. We should make this move prepared for rival incursions.
Cheap Orange Knofe said:
Woah fealty means we got new area to build stuff on? And it's ok the plane of fire?
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Yeah. The Plane of Fire has islands of non-flammable volcanic rocks that various races build strongholds and citadels on. We were actually gonna make our own colonization attempts in the future, via Amrelath and Yrten building their own dukedoms. This is just an unexpected first step, but not an unwelcome one.

Alrighty then. Referencing the following info post:
Azel said:
Imperial Air Force
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I think we should go with around three capital ships. I'd love to go with more, but we simply don't have the forces to spread around like that.

So, from the looks of it, one ship can be pulled from Harrenhal, specifically the IAF Makhaira which is a Gladius-class Destroyer, and two can be pulled from Sorcerer's Deep -- the aptly named IAF Gladius which is also a Gladius-class destroyer, and the IAF Moonchaser led by Moonsong.

Obviously this is just the beginnings of a plan, but I think we can make this work without dangerously stretching our forces thin. Thoughts?
 
Sorry for the delay, guys. Puppy demanded a walk right when I was about to make a vote.

[X] Accept the Fealty
-[X] Send the IAF Makhaira Gladius-class Destroyer from Harrenhal, and the IAF Gladius Gladius-class Destroyer and the IAF Moonchaser led by Moonsong from Sorcerer's Deep
--[X] Make sure the imperial forces showing up to reinforce the newly vassalized Salamanders arrive with enough supplies to relieve the siege
--[X] Imperial forces are stretched thin, we are in a state of high alert until defenses can be shored up and the airfleet rebuilt
-[X] See about getting Fire-Immune Forge Beasts such as Fiery Darkenbeasts and Grand Dragon Turtles stationed here in force, along with several Heralds
-[X] Assign a Herald to the personal service of the Salamander Queen in honor of her new status as our vassal
-[X] Amrelath and the Harbinger will be present mainly as symbols of new imperial authority rather than with the expectation that they'd be of significance in battle

Suggestions are welcome. Held off on the Heart Tree and potential Fire Forge for after this is all cleared up.
 
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[X] Duesal

One thing we have to remember is this is a marathon and the price of defeat is worse than death.
Even if this is a war of attrition, the net result is better for everyone includung our new allies.
Better to write a story about this new kingdom to inspire others then never try at all.

Also, the more soldiers who die in ever plane of fire, the less attacks are on our own citizens at home.
 
quelthias said:
[X] Duesal

One thing we have to remember is this is a marathon and the price of defeat is worse than death.
Even if this is a war of attrition, the net result is better for everyone includung our new allies.
Better to write a story about this new kingdom to inspire others then never try at all.

Also, the more soldiers who die in ever plane of fire, the less attacks are on our own citizens at home.
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It gets easier after the initial battle. The first enemy is the attacking Salamander Clans. With this we'll at least see them back off and stick to raids rather than all out assaults... unless the Efreeti show up in force, but if that happens we have bigger problems.
 
Duesal said:
Sorry for the delay, guys. Puppy demanded a walk right when I was about to make a vote.

[X] Accept the Fealty
-[X] Send the IAF Makhaira Gladius-class Destroyer from Harrenhal, and the IAF Gladius Gladius-class Destroyer and the IAF Moonchaser led by Moonsong from Sorcerer's Deep
--[X] Imperial forces are stretched thin, we are in a state of high alert until defenses can be shored up and the airfleet rebuilt
-[X] See about getting Fire-Immune Forge Beasts stationed here in force
-[X] Assign a Herald to the service of the Salamander Queen in honor of her new status as our vassal

Suggestions are welcome. Held off on the Heart Tree and potential Fire Forge for after this is all cleared up.
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Among the Forge servitors which that are Immune to Fire that we currently have available, we already have the Fiery Dragonbeasts and Grand Dragon Turtles. They're each CR 15, though their fire breath won't be of much use.

We also have many dozens of Heralds available, so we could afford to send several of them along, as well as quite a few Glass Golems. War Striders, too.

It hasn't ever been used, but we crafted this a while back:
Arch of Attunement: As many as two individuals can touch this Mithral and Dragonglass archway every six seconds, or walk under it if they are Medium-sized or smaller, in order to gain the effects of an Attune Form spell for 24 hours at 6th caster level.
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The Arch could be used to allow a contingent of Imperial personnel (elite Legion solders, a few squads of Praetorians, servitors which aren't Immune to Fire, etc) to comfortably live and operate within the Salamander's domain. The duration of the effect limits the practical numbers and confines them to a relatively small area, but it would be a good gesture to make to the Salamanders and every little bit helps.
 
Duesal said:
Suggestions are welcome. Held off on the Heart Tree and potential Fire Forge for after this is all cleared up.
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Azel said:
Also, if you want to send any PCs along with the Imperial Air Force, keep in mind that they will primarily function as envoys. Amrelath for one is absolutely not interested in finding out how good the Salamanders are at shooting flying targets with their bombards.
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Even if PCs can't do much in ship-to-ground combat, or ship-to-ship, I assume they are still relevant, if the Efreeti/hostil Salamanders do manage to fight somewhere where the cannons can't be used in full.
Worst case in defending the base itself (remembering our own outpost-attack here), more optimistically by boarding a hostile ship after getting close enough through trickery or magic.

We should definitly send a few at least, including Amrelath.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Even if PCs can't do much in ship-to-ground combat, or ship-to-ship, I assume they are still relevant, if the Efreeti/hostil Salamanders do manage to fight somewhere where the cannons can't be used in full.
Worst case in defending the base itself (remembering our own outpost-attack here), more optimistically by boarding a hostile ship after getting close enough through trickery or magic.

We should definitly send a few at least, including Amrelath.
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Amrelath aside, who'd you have in mind?
 
Duesal said:
Amrelath aside, who'd you have in mind?
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Tyene as our primary envoy to ensure we take control over another slaver-culture without too many issues, Maelor for support, Waymar in case things get to serious combat under one of the no-fun wards concerning higher magic (also if this is a longer assignment it's better for him and Tyene to go together).
 
Artemis1992 said:
Tyene as our primary envoy to ensure we take control over another slaver-culture without too many issues, Maelor for support, Waymar in case things get to serious combat under one of the no-fun wards concerning higher magic (also if this is a longer assignment it's better for him and Tyene to go together).
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Added Tyene, Maelor, Waymar, Amrelath, and Yrten to the vote.
 
PC won't change the outcome of the battles. At all.

And you don't have any full Fleshforged battalions to send, so neither will any forge creatures you dig out.
 
Azel said:
PC won't change the outcome of the battles. At all.

And you don't have any full Fleshforged battalions to send, so neither will any forge creatures you dig out.
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If the melee-specced Dragon that can kill an arbitrary number of salamanders or fire giants as long as he is not under artillery fire doesn't matter, that sounds more like a problem with the system than working as intended.

But accepting that, there should still be a reasonable chance that our enemies try something with PC-infiltrators and then at least we need our own PCs here. As seen with our own wardstone-theft, mooks can't stop us.
 
Artemis1992 said:
If the melee-specced Dragon that can kill an arbitrary number of salamanders or fire giants as long as he is not under artillery fire doesn't matter, that sounds more like a problem with the system than working as intended.

But accepting that, there should still be a reasonable chance that our enemies try something with PC-infiltrators and then at least we need our own PCs here. As seen with our own wardstone-theft, mooks can't stop us.
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They can, you just won in the raid. Put enough people with force weapons on the job and they will chew through Amrelath's armor and kill him. PCs work best where they can apply their concentration of force fast and get out, they do not work to change the effect of a large scale grinding battle where the enemy has what you might consider to be 'arbitrary' numbers of mooks to throw at you. That said yes PCs can help protect against assassination of the leadership if the efreeti try it.
 
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