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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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To complicate matters even further; maybe we should make an anvil of doom? It would have synergystic effects; we can empower ourselves/group; and can get the GrimGronti as soon as we can do the requisite research.
(Research t5 Turn 45 as compromise?)
 
Pyre said:
To complicate matters even further; maybe we should make an anvil of doom? It would have synergystic effects; we can empower ourselves/group; and can get the GrimGronti as soon as we can do the requisite research.
(Research t5 Turn 45 as compromise?)
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We don't know how to build an Anvil of Doom, nor do we really have the runes for it.
 
Mr8 said:
Master Rune of Snerra/Amplification (Adamant)
Rune of Sanctuary
Rune of Stone

MRSnerra normally uses Pure Gromril, and we know that adamant can be substituted to make the rune more potent. Sanc & Stone rune materials were not prescribed.
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Mostly because I've no idea what would be good reagents. The plan Lagg made for me just says whatever Snorri thinks is appropriate, which, to be fair, worked out great for Zharrgal.
 
Mr8 said:
Master Rune of Snerra/Amplification (Adamant)
Rune of Sanctuary
Rune of Stone

MRSnerra normally uses Pure Gromril, and we know that adamant can be substituted to make the rune more potent. Sanc & Stone rune materials were not prescribed.
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Hmmm....

Master Rune of Amplification (Adamant), Rune of Empowerment, Rune of Thrungni (Adamant).

Now it ties deeper into empowering things and runes, whatcha think?

Maybe a rune of stone instead? Trying to keep to the deep magic theme.

You *could* twist it into "Take the Deep Magic and Empower Thrungni's art"

So a focus for all that deep magic, channeling it into runes all the time instead of letting it fly, more controlled perhaps.
 
BungieONI said:
The Rune of Grungni creates a wind, a barrier, upon which you can add further elements, see Stormwrath and Ancestral Aegis. The Rune of Stone is about durability and physical hardiness, as well as some connection to dwarves as a people.
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I mean, I think that doesn't adequately account for the way those runes have performed across the various works in this quest. Deep Magic is very explicitly connected to stone and tectonic forces; I strongly disagree that Deep Magic *isn't* covered in the Rune of Stone's purview.

And while the Master Rune of Grungni explicitly creates wind, the regular rune is more closely linked to the character of the ancestor, in my opinion. Like I said, dawi/community/tradition, and the underlying theme of *redirection*.

I think reasonable minds can disagree on this one, but I still think the combo-logic on this one is strong.

Mr. Idiot said:
Maybe a rune of stone instead? Trying to keep to the deep magic theme.
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*coughs* Take a look at my Zaraz a Rhunrikki idea.
 
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Mr. Idiot said:
Hmmm....

Master Rune of Amplification (Adamant), Rune of Empowerment, Rune of Thrungni (Adamant).

Now it ties deeper into empowering things and runes, whatcha think?

Maybe a rune of stone instead? Trying to keep to the deep magic theme.

You *could* twist it into "Take the Deep Magic and Empower Thrungni's art"

So a focus for all that deep magic, channeling it into runes all the time instead of letting it fly, more controlled perhaps.
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The Rune of Empowerment is Gronti specific (From the Rune list: "Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, making them sluggish for an equivalent period afterwards.") so would not fit.

The proposed MSnerra, Sanc & Stone is an alternative take on Snerra 'Amplifier' Combo which used MSnerra, Stone & Thungni.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
*coughs* Take a look at my Zaraz a Rhunrikki idea.
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Yeah I based it off that, I think. Care to repost it?

There was also the idea of a belt of giant's strength that just works by continuously infusing the unused deep magic from BA into Snorri.
Mr8 said:
The Rune of Empowerment is Gronti specific (From the Rune list: "Boosts linked Gronti performance for a short period of time, making them sluggish for an equivalent period afterwards.") so would not fit.

The proposed MSnerra, Sanc & Stone is an alternative take on Snerra 'Amplifier' Combo which used MSnerra, Stone & Thungni.
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Well what's wrong with a different take on empowerment?

It's already doing it with amplification.
 
Talon TigerDino said:
You may wish to combine your posts, BelligerentGnu.
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Bah, my bad. Posting on my phone.

Mr. Idiot said:
Yeah I based it off that, I think. Care to repost it?
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Here you go.

BelligerentGnu said:
Gahhh! Of all times to be late to the discussion!

Alright folks. With the storm of magic coming, I'm advocating we use this priceless opportunity to forge the last piece of our set combo at the Anvil of the Earth. Specifically, I want to advocate for an old idea of mine: The Gift of the Runelord.

Here's the original post for context, note that this was written before Snerra's discovery of the MR of Amplification.



Now, it's pretty clear that Snerra scooped us on MGlittering Beacon with her MAmplification, but that just makes things simpler.

Think of it. A cloak that empowers the throng's runic equipment, as we march to war. And making use of the Storm of Magic? I can't think of a more powerful way to round out the set, or one more in keeping with the character of Snorri, the Gift-Giver.

So @soulcake, would you accept this as a write-in?

[ ] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 1: It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of purest gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)
.
[ ] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 2: Adamant and Shard Wyrm Hide It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)

If accepted, my plan would look something like:

[] Plan: Once in a Lifetime
-[] Waywarding: 1 Retainer Action
-[] The Throng is Mustered: 2 Retainer Actions
-[] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 1: 1 Action
It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of purest gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)
-[] [Difficult] Write in, The Gift of the Runelord, Pt. 2: 3 Actions It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Choose: Master Rune of Amplification (A Bar of Adamant), Rune of Grungni (Oathgold), Rune of Stone (Troll's Heart)
--[] Forge at the Anvil of the Earth, wear Barak Azamar and use Zharrgal
-[] ORDER: T3 Oathgold


Edit: Of course a Troll's Heart makes perfect sense for pulling deep magic from the rune of stone. Excellent idea, @Jreengus.
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Quoted post also has the original logic for the combo.
 
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BelligerentGnu said:
I mean, I think that doesn't adequately account for the way those runes have performed across the various works in this quest. Deep Magic is very explicitly connected to stone and tectonic forces; I strongly disagree that Deep Magic *isn't* covered in the Rune of Stone's purview.

And while the Master Rune of Grungni explicitly creates wind, the regular rune is more closely linked to the character of the ancestor, in my opinion. Like I said, dawi/community/tradition, and the underlying theme of *redirection*.

I think reasonable minds can disagree on this one, but I still think the combo-logic on this one is strong.
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That's the interesting thing to me: The Heart seems to have been the thing that pulled up the Deep Magic in BA, and the Rune of Stone seems to have made the armor unbreakable and or flavored the transformation. This is from what I recall anyway. The Rune of Stone hasn't really been described by Soul as drawing on the Deep Magic. The only rune I can think of immediately that does is the Master Rune of Animation, but its worth asking.

@soulcake does the Rune of Stone seem to have any kind of connection to the Deep Magic?

Based on the combos we've used it in I'm not sure using it on a talisman really invokes the kingship/community aspect. From the ancestor post;
soulcake said:
Grungni as God of mining, metal and patriarch of the dwarfs covers a lot, but depending on what his Rune is put on it can affect the expression of the effect. On a building, it draws more on his portfolio over craftsmanship and smithing, on a weapon it depends on whether it has an edge/point vs a flat surface. Because Grungni uses Drongrundum in his war aspect and a pickaxe in his more mundane aspect. On armour it's a general defensive buff not too dissimilar to the Rune of Stone though arguably more focused. On Banners and Talismans that protective aspect is drawn to more physical threats because magical/esoteric shenanigans are far more in Thungni and Valaya's ballpark. In his other aspects the Rune of Grungni could equally provide a miner with a bit of luck in prospecting, not a truly large benefit, but noticeable/recordable to the Runesmiths at least. Of course, it doesn't make up for skill, as a less experienced miner may miss out on the signs the Rune uses.
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He does have patriarch of the dwarfs and community/king themes. But on talismans mostly a shield. Which sounds a lot like Conversion actually. Dunno.
 
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BungieONI said:
He does have patriarch of the dwarfs and community/king themes. A shield. Which sounds a lot like Conversion actually. Dunno.
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Yeah. It's the same kind of uncertainty as when we were debating on Barak Azamar.

What it comes down to for me is that the only way this comboing system works is if this thematic logic we make up for ideas actually contributes towards whether our ideas are successful/potent. Otherwise, we're basically just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

And it's possible Soulcake is working entirely off a list of combos he pre-generated, or rolling dice, but he's not going to tell us and I'm not sure I'd even want to know. So I choose to believe that the more convincing our arguments, the better the chances for any given piece. And, well. I really like my arguments for Zaraz a Rhunrikki, I think they're thematically sound.
 
X letter about the colony
X productivity
X odd estoric rune
Use the anvil of earth to make an adamant Anvil of doom, idk what regeants we have on hand but we have to have something appropriate
 
BelligerentGnu said:
Otherwise, we're basically just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
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This is basically what I believe is how it works. Which is depressing tbh, but the mistakes we've made seem to indicate it. We get lucky and can come up with something. And by understanding a given rune's functions we can find related ones and weave them together half-blind and fumblingly, and by asking Soul questions on Snorri's opinion on a given rune.
 
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On phone potential idea banner that makes everyone as tough as snorri or transfer hits to him. As long he stands no one else falls.

The earth cooled. Rain fell. Grass grew. Mountains formed. And the primordial stone shielded you r people and held them up. Now so shall you.

Become a Pillar of Society. Be The Pillar Man. ayayayaya.
 
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I've seen a lot of mentions of Zaraz a Rhunrikki but I didn't actually know what it was all about, so I went looking.
BelligerentGnu said:
  • There've been a few proposed set themes (earth/fire/sky, etc.), but I'm firmly of the belief that the set should focus on the connection between Dawi and Stone. Barak Azamar represents the connection of Snorri the Individual, the dwarf of deep protective instincts, to that stony heritage. Zharrgal represents his connection to the deep magic of Stone through his craft and role as a runelord. What we need is something that represents his connection as a member of the dawi to stone. Something that highlights that deep cultural bond between the Dawi and the deep earth.
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There's more if you use the quote as a link. I like this idea, but this point here seems to conflict with Soul's post.
soulcake said:
So without ado, here it is.
1. My recommendation is that your potential set bonus can double down on the Power of the Earth aesthetic, be a Forge Allegory, or do the Primordial world as discussed.
2. The Element should be the overarching idea, not the Wind associated with it.
3. I don't recommend a Weapon.
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The emphasis being on making the next piece focus on the 'Power of the Earth' or a 'Primordial world'. Gnu's proposed project does include the power of the earth thing, but that seems by and large tangential. As it pretty clearly focuses on Snorri as an individual, and the Dawi as a race. With their connection to the earth maybe taking 3rd place on the significance list.

I think there could be value with this idea, but Soul has made it pretty clear that he isn't avoiding giving us the 'right' answers. Oni's idea is 100% primordial world, though I'll admit to my reservations.

The elemental attacks kind of twigs Soul's advice on the item, but it's not like it's a 1 to 1 problem. It isn't a weapon and it's not going to get weapon runes. And the specification on elements was about not trying to pick out individual Winds it seems.

Though even with these reservations, it has my support. It follows Soul's advice, it has a lot of narrative weight behind it, and it's conception seems so much smoother and more competently done than the amulet.
 
[X] [Letters]: Knowledge about this new elf colony
[X] [Specialty]: Productivity (Savant)
[X] [Specialty]: Talismanic Runes [Exceptional+]
[X] [Plan]: Once In a Lifetime
 
Alright. What about if instead of picking the runes, we went with a [theme] write-in instead? Something like:


"It may be the most difficult thing you will ever do, but you refuse to shame her by giving the dawi of Kraka Drakk anything less than your absolute best. It is time to retire the Ruby Cloak, and finish the Runic trinity you can feel in potentia with your armour and hammer. A cloak of deepest ruby red, trimmed with White lion fur, speckled with four-pointed stars of purest gromril, and featuring three adamant stars bearing runes.
--[] Theme: The Deep power of the Earth flows to the Dawi through you.
--[] Use suitable upgrade materials
 
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