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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Jreengus said:
Ok so having slept on it I have some new thoughts regarding the item to make. First up I'm going to stop arguing against using the brain on the lightning rune in the cloak, I don't want to make the cloak so I think it is impossible for me to be impartial there, instead I'd like to talk about the cloak as a whole.

So first for the good I think the cloak will work, I think it will be powerful item and I do think it will combo with the rest of Snorri's set, setting aside the quibbling about what would be the most powerful ingredients to use for which rune I think any of suggestions is likely to create a powerful T5 item. On the the neutral side I think it is very all in, it uses one of only two T5 materials we have ever had and uses KotS feathers which we don't have a reliable way of getting more of. If you like the banner this is good if you don't this is bad it really just serves to amplify existing feelings about it.

So that said why don't I like it? Well I think it misses out on a lot of potential that I am much more interested in. To me the most interesting part of BA is the way it calls up deep magic, similarly I love the way Zharrghal imbues that magic into equipment we make. This is the part of the set I want to focus on both because it is more interesting and because it is more flexible. A primordial world set combo will work very well for turning Snorri into the hammeriest of hammers that ever hammered a nail, letting him use big powerful elemental effects to smash his enemies but it is very hard for me to see how anything more esoteric could be tied into that theme. By comparison I feel like deep magic as a theme can be tied into almost any effect, ultimately I would rather Snorri have a toolbox with which to face any situation rather than the biggest hammer possible.

Ok so a deep magic item, my initial suggestions were for a banner to spread deep magic to other runesmiths, I feel this plays well into the current items, BA draws up the deep magic Zharrghal imbues it into Snorri's creations a banner would take that one step further and grant it (temporarily) to other runesmiths. However thinking about it more I don't think this would work best as a banner I actually see this more as a runestaff, it feels less like it would be an always on effect and more something I see Snorri activating as needed.

So I present:

Runelords Gift (??? A Rhunrikki)
A staff of adamant with intricate knotwork flowing over it inlaid with hearthstones and Dronril, the main feature of this staff are the three glowing runes of power arrange leve and equidistant around the head, however within the decoration of the staff the names of Snorri's apprentices and his master are contained. When the Runelord marches to war he carries this staff with him and as the tide of battle ebbs and flows he calls upon the power of it's runes to gift his allies, granting them the tirelessness of the eternal earth, a match to his own; enhancing the power of their runes as though they stood before the anvil upon which this staff was forged; or granting runesmiths the ability to dispel fearsome magics with the same strength as the gift giver himself.

Master Rune of Snerra Magnasdottir (Amplification) - Adamant
Rune of Thungni - Adamant
Rune of Fortitude - Troll Heart
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I like it cos I'm in team runestaff, but why Fortitude? Wouldn't spellbreaking make more sense to empower runesmiths' dispelling?

My idea for a runestaff would be Amplification, Spelleating and Stone... With imagery of grounding the storm, and using it to empower runes.
Dream Bonus: the forging process absorbs the heart of the storm and fixes the anvil of the earth
 
Aight, did some more poking around. New Rune Eye combo

Rune of Spellbinding, Rune of Forged Eye, Rune of Fate.

Lacks the specific uses of a Light/Refraction combo, which might have its own fun flavors to pursue later, but it does grant some more interesting possibilities. With the Spellbinding integrated in, this could allow the Rune of Fate to be used in conjunction to ensure that not only can a spell be captured, but when it IS applied it's applied for maximum effect. Essentially, ensuring the user knows WHAT the spell she just captured will do before they unleash it.
 
IronFist said:
I like it cos I'm in team runestaff, but why Fortitude? Wouldn't spellbreaking make more sense to empower runesmiths' dispelling?

My idea for a runestaff would be Amplification, Spelleating and Stone... With imagery of grounding the storm, and using it to empower runes.
Dream Bonus: the forging process absorbs the heart of the storm and fixes the anvil of the earth
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Fortitude to tap into the tireless earth aspect of deep magic, the runesmiths and their runes unrelenting and unflagging ever working tirelessly like the deep magic itself. The combo ideally would be something that taps into the untiring aspect of BA allowing Snorri to spread it to nearby allies. Also because runestaffs are intended for the runes on them to be activated by the runesmith bearing them and a rune to remove fatigue from nearby dwarfs seems more useful here than a dispelling one which snorri already has covered.
 
Silver719 said:
Aight, did some more poking around. New Rune Eye combo

Rune of Spellbinding, Rune of Forged Eye, Rune of Fate.
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We don't have the rune of fate.


@soulcake: can we just say that we're making a Forged eye at the anvil, without making it a request instead of waiting till turn 49? I.e. use the rolling production to get the eye to the princess asap, with the only royal snazz being that it was made on an Arcane fulcrum during a storm of chaos?

Jreengus said:
Fortitude to tap into the tireless earth aspect of deep magic, the runesmiths and their runes unrelenting and unflagging ever working tirelessly like the deep magic itself. The combo ideally would be something that taps into the untiring aspect of BA allowing Snorri to spread it to nearby allies. Also because runestaffs are intended for the runes on them to be activated by the runesmith bearing them and a rune to remove fatigue from nearby dwarfs seems more useful here than a dispelling one which snorri already has covered.
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Fair enough. I'll probably try my hands at my own plan featuring Stormbreaker.
 
Okay so I love the cloak and primordial storm theme, and am convinced that using the brain will give us something to that effect and won't be a waste, but the act of using the brain without research still strikes me as too impulsive IC.
 
Cursix said:
Okay so I love the cloak and primordial storm theme, and am convinced that using the brain will give us something to that effect and won't be a waste, but the act of using the brain without research still strikes me as too impulsive IC.
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i mean the entire thing is impulsive becouse storm of magic happened so it kinda fits
 
Jreengus said:
A primordial world set combo will work very well for turning Snorri into the hammeriest of hammers that ever hammered a nail, letting him use big powerful elemental effects to smash his enemies but it is very hard for me to see how anything more esoteric could be tied into that theme. By comparison I feel like deep magic as a theme can be tied into almost any effect, ultimately I would rather Snorri have a toolbox with which to face any situation rather than the biggest hammer possible.
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I fundamentally disagree with this, because Primordial World can do high concept very well - you need only to look at Barak Azamar and Zharrgal: the endless vitality of the planet, and the dual destructive and creative aspects of volcanism. It's quite easy to come up with more esoteric concepts that tie into it, without losing any of the potency - my ideal anti-magic talisman would be ocean themed, tying into the fathomless, imperturbable depths to absorb, smother and wash away any harmful magical effects (the only problem there is... no ocean runes because dwarves cannot into swim just yet). Another idea would be to tap into the inexorable flow of time on a weapon, using the same ideas discussed with Shyish in this very chapter, to create something capable of killing even the toughest of foes.

A storm-themed cloak lends itself very well to a gaping hole in Snorri's current capabilities - environmental and defensive effects. Snorri himself is as close as we can get to unkillable, but he has relatively few ways of acting at a distance, or conferring protection upon the throng as a whole. The storm-cloak acts as both a defensive screen from oncoming projectiles, and a very potent tool for dealing with enemy fliers and ensuring air superiority, to say nothing of the likely synergy it would have with the griffons. A speculative additional effect, conferred by the storm of magic, might be to enhance the potency of allied spellcasters within its aegis - a storm of magic in miniature, if you will.

Part of the allure of using the brain is the flexibility and more interesting applications it will likely have upon the storm itself, allowing for greater breadth and scope in its usage. In an ideal world, I'd have liked to have spent the time researching it properly, but we have a decent idea of what it could do, and we (including Snorri himself) were completely blindsided by this perfect opportunity to use it. A fair chunk of Snorri's internal narration recently has been spent with the realisation that no, the elders don't always know exactly what they're doing, and it falls upon them to forge the path and take risks younger dwarves might not be ready for. It's a risk, yes, but a calculated one, and between Snorri's own skill, the timing, the thematic and conceptual associations and the narrative weight behind it, I have every confidence that it will turn out very well.

As an aside, it is completely possible to have multiple, overlapping set combos - a primordial world set combo featuring Barak Azamar does not prevent Barak Azamar from being used in other set combos, for example.
 
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Stormbreaker
An azrilwut runestaff, reinforced with adamant stylized to look like seams of quartz running through stone. (going by the description that we got off runesmiths during the Dum expedition).
The top cap is a small intricately decorated anvil, with Valaya's icons on the sides (symbolizing shelter from a storm).
The staff absorbs the winds of magic in the area and grounds them, and turns that energy towards amplifying the abilities of runesmiths nearby.
Runes: Amplification (adamant), Spelleating, Stone. Use voidstone as a reagent for the lesser runes: chaotic energy turned into stone seems like the most dwarf/spiteful way to stop it.
Bonus points if the storm breaks at the same time with Snorri completing the item.
 
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Xepheria said:
I fundamentally disagree with this, because Primordial World can do high concept very well - you need only to look at Barak Azamar and Zharrgal: the endless vitality of the planet, and the dual destructive and creative aspects of volcanism. It's quite easy to come up with more esoteric concepts that tie into it, without losing any of the potency - my ideal anti-magic talisman would be ocean themed, tying into the fathomless, imperturbable depths to absorb, smother and wash away any harmful magical effects (the only problem there is... no ocean runes because dwarves cannot into swim just yet). Another idea would be to tap into the inexorable flow of time on a weapon, using the same ideas discussed with Shyish in this very chapter, to create something capable of killing even the toughest of foes.

A storm-themed cloak lends itself very well to a gaping hole in Snorri's current capabilities - environmental and defensive effects. Snorri himself is as close as we can get to unkillable, but he has relatively few ways of acting at a distance, or conferring protection upon the throng as a whole. The storm-cloak acts as both a defensive screen from oncoming projectiles, and a very potent tool for dealing with enemy fliers and ensuring air superiority, to say nothing of the likely synergy it would have with the griffons. A speculative additional effect, conferred by the storm of magic, might be to enhance the potency of allied spellcasters within its aegis - a storm of magic in miniature, if you will.

Part of the allure of using the brain is the flexibility and more interesting applications it will likely have upon the storm itself, allowing for greater breadth and scope in its usage. In an ideal world, I'd have liked to have spent the time researching it properly, but we have a decent idea of what it could do, and we (including Snorri himself) were completely blindsided by this perfect opportunity to use it. A fair chunk of Snorri's internal narration recently has been spent with the realisation that no, the elders don't always know exactly what they're doing, and it falls upon them to forge the path and take risks younger dwarves might not be ready for. It's a risk, yes, but a calculated one, and between Snorri's own skill, the timing, the thematic and conceptual associations and the narrative weight behind it, I have every confidence that it will turn out very well.

As an aside, it is completely possible to have multiple, overlapping set combos - a primordial world set combo featuring Barak Azamar does not prevent Barak Azamar from being used in other set combos, for example.
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First up I had forgotten we could have overlapping sets, that does give me hope that even if the stormcloak wins we aren't locked into that path, ideally I'd still like to have a 5 piece set combo but that is good to remember so thank you for reminding me of that.

Secondly With regard to the stormcloak filling a gap in Snorri's capabilities you propose two niches it would help fill Long range and screening the throng. I disagree that he lacks ways to target enemies at range or fliers, he has the ability to weigh down enemy fliers so much they have to land a zharrghal for burning stuff up at range, whilst the banner would be helpful I don't think it would add any new capabilities he doesn't already have, if we want to add meaningfully to his ranged options we would need a weapon specialised toward it, most likely an Mflying weapon. With regard to screening the host, ultimately this isn't a capability I feel it is worth sacrificing one of Snorri's equipment slots for, we can achieve this goal through the production of banners for others, hell we already have done it twice with the antimagic shield barrier and the heirs cloak I'd be happy to do it again and make the storm banner for the hearth guard as I do think it's a cool concept it just isn't what I want for Snorri for that slot.

Lastly we come to the idea of a primal world being used for more esoteric stuff, maybe this is just me being unimaginiative but I just have a harder time tying the stuff I want to do into primordial world thematics rather than deep magic ones, for example I don't see a way to tie Buff runesmiths and their runes into the primordial world, I'd love to do something with fate if we ever get around to researching it but I have a hard time tying that in.

For your antimagic suggestion is it essential that it's using water to do it's thing? Seems like fire or stone would be better associations for an antimagic talisman (helps we have the runes for those). The eternal mountain endures the magic unnafected or the raging fire burns away the magic in its path
 
@soulcake If we were to make more items under our equipment set's purview/theme (Deep Magic, Primordial World, whatever we end up going with), would they fall into the "set" and have any synergy (even just narratively) or is it hard capped at 3/3? Or is that /3 just a signifier for what we need to unlock the set bonus rather than a cap for the set.
 
Jreengus said:
For your antimagic suggestion is it essential that it's using water to do it's thing? Seems like fire or stone would be better associations for an antimagic talisman (helps we have the runes for those). The eternal mountain endures the magic unnafected or the raging fire burns away the magic in its path
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It taps into oceans specifically because I wanted to tie into the Primordial World, and aside from storms the oceans are the main natural process left untouched so far (aside from perhaps Life, in the abstract, and the Sun, but I wouldn't even know where to get started with those just yet), and water has longstanding associations with implacability and antimagic. 'Enduring Mountain' and 'Raging Fire' are concepts that we've already explored, and I almost feel as if it would be gauche to double up, especially on Snorri's own personal panopoly. Just seems as though it's lacking in imagination.

Keep in mind that the idea is firmly in the hypothetical, because there are literally no water aspected runes aside from the Rune of Water, which is useless for anything beyond mundane utility. They might be developed in the future, especially as relations with the elves improve and seafaring develops, but for now, we're utterly lacking in appropriate runes - another thing for the list, I suppose T_T
 
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Jreengus said:
As in carving it into his (stone) flesh? Seems like beadling level foolhardiness, assuming it doesn't just heal as he carves it what would happen when he changes back?
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No, as a talisman that synchs with barak azamar, letting Golem Snorri go Super Golem Snorri. (temporarily, to get an edge on other supercombatants)
Funny thought: there's a really good reason why super saiyans don't have beards.
 
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Xepheria said:
water has longstanding associations with implacability and antimagic.
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Does it though? This is the first I'm hearing about it.
Unlike Stone which has sheltered the dwarves from the winds of magic for time immemorial.

Frankly the closest I'd be willing to bite on that is "Of the remaining concepts that haven't been touched on yet, waters the best remaining fit".
And since theres the Sun and its source of Hysh, I'm not even certain about that.
 
If we're moving onto future speculative equipment and sets, one thing I'd really like to do once we've delved into the Winds and Azakit more is to create a set of rings, one for each wind, to give out to the other runelords/notable figures in Krakka Drakk, with a Master Ring of Qayash for Snorri himself. Super-Sentai set bonus go!

It's not quite 'Seven rings for the dwarf lords, in their halls of stone' but it'll do :V

The Ring of Ashqy, given how it seems to be associated with Grimnir, would go to the Kings of Drakk; Hysh for Valma, such that the former dwarves of Dum might never fear corruption again; Chamon for whoever figures out Adamant next. As for the rest, I leave it as an exercise for the reader :V


Dark as Silver said:
Frankly the closest I'd be willing to bite on that is "Of the remaining concepts that haven't been touched on yet, waters the best remaining fit".
And since theres the Sun and its source of Hysh, I'm not even certain about that.
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The Sun would also work, with perhaps a Talismanic M.Purification/Spellbreaking/Something, but I'm not sure if that application of it would fit the primordial world theming, compared to the idea of 'the fathomless depths, ancient and untouchable'.

To give a sense of why I think the oceans work particularly well here, I'm going to point you to Kurzgesagt:




That much water gives precisely negative fucks.
 
Xepheria said:
That much water gives precisely negative fucks.
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That amount of anything gives negative fucks, its not a property of water. Do Kurzgesagt have a video of what if you detonated a bomb in the middle of a Mt Everest? Which is 10000 ft smaller than the trench.
Frankly considering the caves we've passed in the underway and scouting in the wake of Debra, we could probably make just as good a pitch for the fathomless, untouchable and ancient cave systems.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
That amount of anything gives negative fucks, its not a property of water. Do Kurzgesagt have a video of what if you detonated a bomb in the middle of a Mt Everest? Which is 10000 ft smaller than the trench.
Frankly considering the caves we've passed in the underway and scouting in the wake of Debra, we could probably make just as good a pitch for the fathomless, untouchable and ancient cave systems.
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Not quite Everest, but bombs inside mountains is very much a known phenomenon. Take this article as an example (with a bomb about three orders of magnitude smaller) - it would certainly be noticeable.
 
Xepheria said:
Not quite Everest, but bombs inside mountains is very much a known phenomenon. Take this article as an example (with a bomb about three orders of magnitude smaller) - it would certainly be noticeable.
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1.6m permeant displacement is not much at all in a 2km mountain, itself a fifth of the Marianas trench. And there are no sign of radiation leaks according to china. But you're right they are a known phenonmena I just didn't have stats, Nuclear Weapons Tests and Environmental Consequences: A Global Perspective the vast majority of nuclear tests have been underground and get they contribute less to atmospheric radiation than atmospheric/underwater (the two got lumped together as there weren't many underwater ones.

Whereas your own video mentions its poisoning whales and stuff and is only concerned explaining that the dramatic impacts movies and pop culture might have taught us to expect are incorrect. Just because it doesn't talk about the effects of accumulating radioactive matter in the food chain doesn't mean it isn't happening.
 
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Xepheria said:
It's quite easy to come up with more esoteric concepts that tie into it, without losing any of the potency - my ideal anti-magic talisman would be ocean themed, tying into the fathomless, imperturbable depths to absorb, smother and wash away any harmful magical effects (the only problem there is... no ocean runes because dwarves cannot into swim just yet). Another idea would be to tap into the inexorable flow of time on a weapon, using the same ideas discussed with Shyish in this very chapter, to create something capable of killing even the toughest of foes.
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...we could literally just go gronti and spend a year or two walking on the ocean floor.
 
Xepheria said:
Bonk some Prometheans for mats while we're down there. They're the only elder race we haven't encountered yet.
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And hydra, and kharibydiss, and helldrakes, and all the other terrifying primordial shit that the Old Ones didn't genocide (excepting the deep deep underground stuff that canon Skaven are terrified of). Honestly, I'm starting to think we shouldn't even DO the third piece of the triumvirate yet, at least until we get some Inspiration from life under the sea.
 
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