(I'm having way too much fun with Qohor)
That is nonsense, there isnt so much thing as having to much fun in Qohor.
I always try to do that when I can, though I must admit that it is a bit hard to set the spooky atmosphere when you are playing the demigod dragon Emperor. I might change it over to one of the others for more impact.
Nothing thar reading a little bit of warhammer dosent fix :p
Think Jon would mind his wife being a couple millennia/million years older than him and an Eldritch Abomination from beyond space and time or would he go along with it becuase we asked nicely?
Yes, After all we are viserys, who gives a damn what other think?
Especially since we want payback except there's not exactly a method to hunt down a mindblanked mythic archmage.
I fear the idea of payback is clouding people judgment in many ways, I mean im wont be surprise of the sultan is already expecting a payback in one moment of another, he wont be sultan if is enemy didnt wait for revenge.
That said you did get a bit stuck in the notion that the Sultan was a bigger Aerys and he would randomly kill people just to hurt you, he would not because any raid would be a risk and taking the risk to kill what would to him be slave-chaff was not worth it. If anything I think the misunderstanding has less to do with the military system and more with the motivations of the Brazen throne and for that I am sorry because it is on me.
I feel the players here have probably get to use to the idea we atack and they defend, that everything would be alright and nothing bad would happen, probably in part because our sucess and part because the retaking of westeros as piecemeal really.

Between that fight in vault that nearly kill us and this atack, the sultan have really but a cold shower on us.
You're right, it isn't like a Pearl Harbor situation. But the citizens don't know that. It's kind of like Tywin thinking he can fight Hell. The average person of the Imperium is just thinking, "They blew up Everfire Dale? How dare they?!" Coupled with a healthy amount of fear on where might be next of course.

This is worrying actually, this would probably shake the idea our empire cant be atack since it happen right under our noses, this would be notable for westerosi since they were conquer in a what probably be called "the targeryan conquest: bigger a minnier" now they saw that in truth, our empire CAN and will be atacked, some will use as oportunity to do something, other will probably cow and try to parley with the sultan.

Also I wont be surprise if news of this atack would be spread EVERYWHERE, I mean if I was the sultan that is what I would do: let everone know as far I can tell that the dragon let is hoard unprotected.
 
Im fine with the abstraction, even more happy with it actually but the last update is still bitter on everyones tongue and just a part of me hates the fact that we couldnt do anything to stop it.

I for one didnt think a attack will come so soon even before we planned to vote on the new military stuff . The only thing in the finalised vote was to reinforce everfire dale and few other bases as much as possible.
It failed spectacularly and doesnt give us much of a grace period with the new planar war on us.
Then again i still feel that if we had taken a ward from a city it would have led to the sultan launching bioweapons at cities.
and i sincerely believe that we should have a few lucrative possibilties soon enough to recover from this massive blow
Ok. Deep breathes...

1. You could have prevent this if, in the turn-vote, you had reshuffled the Wardstones to fully cover Everfire Dale. I repeatedly pointed out both the problem and the solution. DP repeatedly pointed out both the problem and the solution. Duesal and you both requested the solution to be included in the turn vote and were ignored. You, as in the players at large, whose aggregated will has been expressed in the turn vote, did ignore those warnings and did not prevent this. The entire warfare rework has been spurred by a desire to create and make available the tools to prevent this exact kind of attack. If people vote to not use the tools, then that's on them, not on some inevitable fate.

2. It was repeatedly pointed out that leaving such a huge, juicy, divinable target will be an open invitation for the Efreeti to make a retaliatory attack. DP pretty much announced this attack in advance during the turnvote.

3. Grace period was given in the form of plenty of proactive warnings.

4. How would a wardstone prevent the Sultan from releasing a bioweapon in a city? This is why I keep saying that just plonking down a wardstone on a city doesn't turn it invulnerable. It's not a bubble of NO BAD THINGS HERE that can't be penetrated. I would also like to use this moment to again say in clear and certain terms that putting a lot of military infrastructure into a major city is a surefire way to have that city turned into a blighted hellscape by Imperial forces and an attacker fighting in it for months on end. If you want a city protected, then the cheapest way to do so is to not make it a huge target in the first place.

5. I'd advise to work with the system to recover from this, not to devote all energy to look for miracle solutions outside of it like most people are doing right now.
 
OK just to make something clear, population is generally speaking not much of a limiter for you guys. Most of your population does not even live in cities, many of your experts do but not even all of those. As long as that is the case, as long as the most an attack on a city will do is cost you lives but no appreciable military losses the sultan will not risk this sort of raid. Why? Because it exists on a knife edge, because it is gambling with resources that are not easily replaced. Mythic casters do not grow on trees, and that is as true for him as it is for you.

The Imperium could have lost its leader in that attack on the wardstone delivery, but the Sultan could have lost one of his powerful archmages in trying to take out Everfire Dale. In both cases the target was worth the risk, just randomly killing people, (and it would be more or less random and weighted towards hurting common citizens) with an attack on a city would not be worth the risk especially since the Brazen Throne is rather busy fighting a two front war right now. Now if you stick the military bases inside cities that calculus changes again.

You guys made one miscalculation, it is not the end of the world and it is not an invitation to try to break the wheel and eliminate all risk forever (that would make for a rather boring game). You just need to be more careful in your risk assesment the next time such a decision takes place.

Can there be more attacks? Sure, but if you allocate your resources well the next time the Sultan or anyone else decides to gamble they may find they have bet poorly on long odds and the defender wins. Just because you have seen two raids work under the new system (one for you and one for the enemy) does not mean all raids work out.
 
If you want a city protected, then the cheapest way to do so is to not make it a huge target in the first place.
I'm just assuming that everything fiendish will strike at cities anyway, if it costs them little or nothing.
As will Winter of course.

You make it sound like our enemies are supposed to make rational military decisions, when most of them are literally pure Evil incarnate.

And even in terms of sane decisions it's still a fact that roughly 1/9th of the people has a soul aligned with the Fiend's homeplane, so if he kills 10k people he just send 1,1k souls to the Abyss, Gehenna or Hell and thus strenghtened his own industry while costing us manpower.

The way I see this world cities must be protected, at least to the point that attacking them involves actual serious costs to attacking them. We can't make it impossible of course, but we have to make it difficult.
 
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I'm just assuming that everything fiendish will strike at cities anyway, if it costs them little or nothing.
As will Winter of course.

You make it sound like our enemies are supposed to make rational military decisions, when most of them are literally pure Evil incarnate.

And even in terms of sane decisions it's still a fact that roughly 1/9 people has a soul aligned with the Fiend's homeplane, so if he kills 10k people he just send 1,1k souls to the Abyss, Gehenna or Hell and thus strenghtened his own industry while costing us manpower.

The way I see this world cities must be protected, at least to the point that attacking them involves actual serious costs to attacking them. We can't make it impossible of course, but we have to make it difficult.

Winter is stuck with its own arcane rules as for fiends counting on recovering their losses in souls, well just because you are CE it does not mean you end up empowering a certain demon prince who made the attack, in fact statistically (as much as the term might mean to the pure chaos of the Abyss) any given soul of a random CE person is more likely to empower the Prince's rivals. If the Abyss were unified the world would have ended long ago.

Abadon is also not united, and fighting everyone from Hell to the Far Realm so rather busy and as for hell, well they want to conquer the world, random devastation does not really serve them when all is tallied up.
 
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I'm just assuming that everything fiendish will strike at cities anyway, if it costs them little or nothing.
As will Winter of course.

You make it sound like our enemies are supposed to make rational military decisions, when most of them are literally pure Evil incarnate.

And even in terms of sane decisions it's still a fact that roughly 1/9th of the people has a soul aligned with the Fiend's homeplane, so if he kills 10k people he just send 1,1k souls to the Abyss, Gehenna or Hell and thus strenghtened his own industry while costing us manpower.

The way I see this world cities must be protected, at least to the point that attacking them involves actual serious costs to attacking them. We can't make it impossible of course, but we have to make it difficult.
If you were right, then one of those fiend factions would just release a bio-weapon that wipes out most of humanity and call it a day.

The fact that this is not what happens means you must be wrong, even if the reason for it is not immediately obvious.
 
To add to the above, an way has been found to patch up the issues in my too expansive world-building in terms of apocalypses. :V

Viserys does not know it, but rest assured it does exist. You do not have to worry about fiends with super-plagues wiping out whole cities.
 
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If you were right, then one of those fiend factions would just release a bio-weapon that wipes out most of humanity and call it a day.

The fact that this is not what happens means you must be wrong, even if the reason for it is not immediately obvious.
Humanity is a regenerating ressource if you don't overhunt them.
Also an equal amount of souls would go to all other planes, which are all their enemies.

Wiping out humanity makes no sense as long as it is prey.
Whoever once humanity starts striking back and imposing costs on the fiends, the entire calculus changes vastly.

I'm sure they would have wiped out the Empire of Dawn if they could have and if we ever rise to those heights they will try it with us.

Though ultimatly I'm not worried about bio-weapons in particular. A disease can be cured with low-end magic, and curing an entire city should be within reach of an XP-powered Miracle (since protecting a city from a disaster that would wipe it out is explicitly among the options for an unshakled Miracle).
 
Humanity is a regenerating ressource if you don't overhunt them.
Also an equal amount of souls would go to all other planes, which are all their enemies.

Wiping out humanity makes no sense as long as it is prey.
Whoever once humanity starts striking back and imposing costs on the fiends, the entire calculus changes vastly.

I'm sure they would have wiped out the Empire of Dawn if they could have and if we ever rise to those heights they will try it with us.

Though ultimatly I'm not worried about bio-weapons in particular. A disease can be cured with low-end magic, and curing an entire city should be within reach of an XP-powered Miracle (since protecting a city from a disaster that would wipe it out is explicitly among the options for an unshakled Miracle).

Between the time when magic returned and fiends walked the earth and now there were no mass deaths from cities, the worst was the plague in Lys and that was manageable by the locals. That would seem to indicate a mechanism at work that does not require high level PC intervention. With this I think we have plumbed the subject since anything more I could say on the subject would be spoilers.

I think we should really move away from trying to pick apart the foundations of the system at least for now. It is a bit stressful as a GM to be fielding these questions while trying to keep the answers spoiler free and it kind of takes me out of the story.
 
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Well i do understand what you are saying and i agree but the fact that this occured because we missed the vote on the new warfare system is still salty.😓

At some point, after multiple times of asking "are you sure?", you have the option to either flat out veto player action or to let them run face first into the wall.

I genuinely don't think vetoing would even have achieved something here.
Humanity is a regenerating ressource if you don't overhunt them.
Also an equal amount of souls would go to all other planes, which are all their enemies.

Wiping out humanity makes no sense as long as it is prey.
Whoever once humanity starts striking back and imposing costs on the fiends, the entire calculus changes vastly.

I'm sure they would have wiped out the Empire of Dawn if they could have and if we ever rise to those heights they will try it with us.

Though ultimatly I'm not worried about bio-weapons in particular. A disease can be cured with low-end magic, and curing an entire city should be within reach of an XP-powered Miracle (since protecting a city from a disaster that would wipe it out is explicitly among the options for an unshakled Miracle).
Look. I'm not going to indulge you on making this a meandering argument.

Your strategic assessment was wrong. I told you in advance that neither plonking down military assets, nor high-level PCs would be a viable substitute for proper ward coverage. You decided to ignore that and to repeatedly assert that these things should work. They didn't.

If you want to die on this hill, feel free to do so, but I want to make it very clear to everyone else that the dying part is to be taken literally here before they join you on it.
 
If you want to die on this hill, feel free to do so, but I want to make it very clear to everyone else that the dying part is to be taken literally here before they join you on it.

I think people get it to some extent, we just want to bend because people fuck up and fuck up bigly, if anything this is good because it show what is the cost of fucking up.
 
I think people get it to some extent, we just want to bend because people fuck up and fuck up bigly, if anything this is good because it show what is the cost of fucking up.
I just think that I urgently need to reassert that this was indeed the result of a fuck up. The efforts to portray the choices made as correct in spite of the glaring evidence of the contrary have to be surpressed vigorously, or you will run out of military assets to lose within the year.
 
Loud and clear got it, nothing could have been done, our fault, blah blah. Don't try to loophole out of this, or enemies would do the same or dire consequences will happen.

Also, don't worry about magical plagues, even though there is one on Westhaven...

Can we at least retaliate?

[X] Unleash that brown fungus stuff that grows in fire in the City of Brass
 
Loud and clear got it, nothing could have been done, our fault, blah blah. Don't try to loophole out of this, or enemies would do the same or dire consequences will happen.

Also, don't worry about magical plagues, even though there is one on Westhaven...

Can we at least retaliate?

[X] Unleash that brown fungus stuff that grows in fire in the City of Brass

Well this was a retaliation, also the matter of magical plagues was about having one of them wipe out a city, not attacking a relatively small military base.

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 10, 2021 at 7:17 AM, finished with 179 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] Carry On
    -[X] Leave Dany, Tyene, Waymar, and Rinato continue receiving reports and organizing relief efforts. They will begin mobilizing assets to assist in Westhaven, including healers, Dawnbloom Leshy, and massive quantities of Alchemical Antiplague. Ask that Nirah remain in Sorcerer's Deep for now as well, in case his assistance is needed.
    -[X] Have Rhaella, in her capacity as a diplomat, contact the Djinn and Shaitan governments to arrange meetings with representatives of both as soon as possible.
    -[X] Viserys, Lya, Vee, and Richard will return to Qohor to help wrap up operations there. The sooner that loose thread is tied off, the sooner Vee and Qyburn can devote their attention to Westhaven and whatever plague the Efreeti unleashed. And once Qyburn is not occupied with bringing the newly acquired Forge into proper working order or cleansing Westhaven, he will have more time to begin properly developing anti-Efreeti bio-weapons.
    [X] Carry On
    [X] Unleash that brown fungus stuff that grows in fire in the City of Brass
 
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Loud and clear got it, nothing could have been done, our fault, blah blah. Don't try to loophole out of this, or enemies would do the same or dire consequences will happen.

Also, don't worry about magical plagues, even though there is one on Westhaven...

Can we at least retaliate?

[X] Unleash that brown fungus stuff that grows in fire in the City of Brass
No, heeding the GM warning was something that could have been done. Had that happened and the warning not been repeatedly ignored, Everfire Dale wouldn't be a lovely little smoking crater.
 
I just think that I urgently need to reassert that this was indeed the result of a fuck up. The efforts to portray the choices made as correct in spite of the glaring evidence of the contrary have to be surpressed vigorously, or you will run out of military assets to lose within the year.

I think people get it, from most part, is just the five stage of "I fuck up", we are in the "we did nothing wrong" and the "I want to kill every single of them" this will happen.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 10, 2021 at 7:17 AM, finished with 179 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X] Carry On
    -[X] Leave Dany, Tyene, Waymar, and Rinato continue receiving reports and organizing relief efforts. They will begin mobilizing assets to assist in Westhaven, including healers, Dawnbloom Leshy, and massive quantities of Alchemical Antiplague. Ask that Nirah remain in Sorcerer's Deep for now as well, in case his assistance is needed.
    -[X] Have Rhaella, in her capacity as a diplomat, contact the Djinn and Shaitan governments to arrange meetings with representatives of both as soon as possible.
    -[X] Viserys, Lya, Vee, and Richard will return to Qohor to help wrap up operations there. The sooner that loose thread is tied off, the sooner Vee and Qyburn can devote their attention to Westhaven and whatever plague the Efreeti unleashed. And once Qyburn is not occupied with bringing the newly acquired Forge into proper working order or cleansing Westhaven, he will have more time to begin properly developing anti-Efreeti bio-weapons.
    [X] Carry On
    [X] Unleash that brown fungus stuff that grows in fire in the City of Brass
 
Interlude MCCXX: Flames of Flesh and Spirit
Flames of Flesh and Spirit

Second Day of the Tenth Month 294 AC

Ever since the day she had awoken her second body Lya was finding new things she could do better, ones she had not even considered when first she took up the task. It was easier to check translations when you could read both texts simultaneously and not just side by side, it was more convenient to deal with the brief commitments of royal socialization without breaking out of some careful arcane observation.

On that day she learned that it was easier to process grief when you had two brains to do it with.

Lya had not spent a lot of time in the Dale, not since the early days when the arcane advancements that would come to characterize the Imperium were yet in their infancy, but it had been her arts that had sown the roots of those changes, it had been Lya not-yet-The-Sage who had looked at the spell that would make any object harder and more durable and seen not just a convenient trick for the caster's use, but something that could change the world.

Something that did change the world.

Now it was all cinder and ash, more than that, it was glass melted smooth and arcane amalgams. Yet her voice did not falter, nor her wit fail as she spoke to the commander at Westhaven, her purpose did not waver as she walked among the infected, checking the nature of the contagion and how it might be bested.

Heat, fever, turning the body's own defenses against it, but there was nothing of what she most feared to it, nothing soul-deep. She could feel a bit of the tension going out of her shoulders as she healed the soldier under her hand.

Filled with renewed purpose she turned to Tyene. "I think we can do this as long as the quarantine holds. We will have to keep pouring leshy and ritual healers in by Gate, but even if everyone in the base gets this thing twice over we have enough healers to stamp the fire out..."

"As long as it does not catch on the outside," her friend said, gaze uncommonly grim. "All it takes is some fool doing a runner or someone being exposed by accident."

"As soon as they get out of range of the base's Uncertainty Wards they can be divined, this is not an illness you can find anywhere else in the world." Lya paused thoughtfully. "Whoever did this is not an expert in plagues thankfully, either that or they did not much care for this part of their plan so long as the main thrust of it worked out."

"Hey now, none of that," Tyene said with a sharpness that likely surprise the officers in the room. "The enemy can still screw up, they are not all-powerful. Take it from a Sandviper, fortunes can turn around in a flash."

There were a few more smiles then but Lya could not bring herself to join in.

"What's the matter," the question was not said aloud this time, astute as Tyene ever was.

"Valeria was at Everfire Dale," Lya replied, unable to hold back the truth of it anymore. "She is gone, dead."

"But you can just bring her back though, right?"
her friend noted as the two of them continued to look over supply plans that for the quarantined base until enough healing could be provided.

"Her? Of course I can bring her, but I cannot bring everyone back. It feels like..."

"If you say it feels wrong to give her the privilege of coming back I swear I will find one of those salted cod they feed the troops with around here and I will hit you with it."
The threat sounded somehow all the more serious for the absurdity of the content. "She is a skilled researcher and artificer. That in itself would be cause to bring her back, nevermind that she is your daughter, sister... whatever. No one in their right mind would blame you for it and so I am hoping you are yourself in your right mind."

"You sure know how to comfort people, don't you?" It was only when she noticed the odd looks of the officers that Lya realized she had said it aloud, the sarcasm of the words tinged with deep fondness

"Everyone knows you should not ask Dornishmen for comfort, prickly bastards that we are," Tyene shot back and this time Lya did laugh a little.

***​

Valeria woke with a start, a spell already on her lips as soon as the light of revival had faded. "What... oh damn, where am I?" She glanced at the sun already low in the sky. "Looks like I did not make it."

It was not a question, but Lya still nodded somberly. She wanted to say she was sorry, but she was not entirely sure what for.

"I don't suppose Gendry did then? I told him not to go out there when the explosions started, but the boy would run at a balor with a rusty hammer given the chance!"

It was Tyene who replied simply. "No one did, not from the Dale."

For a long moment the incarnate stood in silence then she squared her shoulders and said only. "I'll see what I can do to help here then." As she passed Lya she gave her a surprising hug, brief but fierce. "It will be better, we will make it better, you'll see."

For her part Lya returned the hug in silence, unable to agree aloud yet, but not inclined to disagree either. She turned her thoughts instead to the dark haired son of Robert Baratheon. She shared no bond with him, no special kinship, but unless she was very much mistaken he would not refuse the call.

What do you wish to see next?

[] Gendry interlude

[] The pacification of Qohor

[] Write in


OOC: Though it does technically cost money to raise people I do not think we need a vote for raising named characters and it just flowed better this way.
 
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[X] Gendry interlude
i am interested in how he thinks of this and would this be enough to spark him to adventure
 
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