Given the size of the pucks and the intent of the spies/terrorists i am assuming its either a bio or chemical weapon, though it might be radiological. Given the stuff the SLDF cooked up it could be any of the above. this being said at this point i am almost certain that this is a ROM op, though given how the Liao's are nutters it could be them still, there is to many pieces of evidence pointing to the Mandate for it to be reasonable and I just cannot see the benefit of them causing so much damage with their fingerprints all over it, though that might because they got terribly unlucky with self destruct features on their equipment than anything else. Still i don't see the benefit to this for the Mandate, yes it would hurt us, but not enough to slow us down barring everything going perfectly. and even then it would piss us off something fierce.
The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone
- Thread starter prometheus110
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- Back in Cali
If it worked we wouldn't know who did it. So we would have been distracted for awhile especially since public pressure would have made it impossible to ignore. Even with this stuff now we are unlikely to do anything to the Mandate even if we had 100% proof it was them. We are not going to attack first as waiting favors our side more than it favors the Mandate. Also remember we have been setting up spy networks in the Mandate and it is likely they detected some of it. The CC and now the Mandate have the best spy agencies in the IS. So launching an operation and expecting it to go off without major issues is what normally would happen.
Secure the pucks and get them to a contained facility asap, no way i'm messing with that shit in the street or an apartment complex.
- Location
- Back in Cali
The street is a secured location dude. We have isolation chambers ready on the street that is why it the best option available. If it is a chemical or bio weapon those chambers render it impotent.
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
[X] Plan Old Sins Cover Fresh Ones
- Location
- Back in Cali
Why are you using the ad hoc one? That risks any chemical or boi weapon getting out as it isn't a dedicated isolation chamber.
- Location
- USA
Cause we don't know how stable these things are or if they've been armed and rather not chance it.
- Location
- Back in Cali
you are chancing them far more by not taking them to a proper chamber. if they go off there is a much higher chance that it will spread and do its job because of the ad hoc nature of doing it in the apartment complex.
Yeah, from my understanding its a question of time. it takes more time to set up a street level lab then an ad hoc lab in the building.
- Location
- USA
Also we don't know these things are and if they are an explosive of some type you don't move it until it's disabled basic EOD cause you never know. Besides making a relatively safe chamber is very easy especially if it's at a construction site like an apartment block.
Given the repeated mention of bioreactors, the pucks are highly likely to be bioweapons. As such, the ad-hoc isolation simply isn't going to be good enough, because CBRN needs dedicated equipment rather than generic multi-purpose stuff.
[X] Plan Actually Airtight
-[X] Have the pucks/potential pipe bombs brought down and disassemble them in a street-level mobile isolation chamber.
-[X] Use the police already patrolling the mall to order an evacuation and hope people respond in time and without arguing. Use a cover story of a toxic gas leak in order to to get people to agree to quarantine/medical intervention. Have the local hospitals set up an isolation wing where people can be diverted for quarantine/treatment just in case.
-[X] Land Gendarmes in the the mall and use excuse of rapid emergency transportation and crowd control to explain the Gendarmes.
I modified the cover story used in order to get people to evacuate to a specific point or points so that if Gamma/Zeta do manage to set off the terror weapon we can immediately contain it and/or treat those civilians which are afflicted, and also so that if Gamma/Zeta don't set the terror weapon off they can't use the crowd to give law enforcement the slip because everyone will be going to a specific location to be processed.
[X] Plan Actually Airtight
-[X] Have the pucks/potential pipe bombs brought down and disassemble them in a street-level mobile isolation chamber.
-[X] Use the police already patrolling the mall to order an evacuation and hope people respond in time and without arguing. Use a cover story of a toxic gas leak in order to to get people to agree to quarantine/medical intervention. Have the local hospitals set up an isolation wing where people can be diverted for quarantine/treatment just in case.
-[X] Land Gendarmes in the the mall and use excuse of rapid emergency transportation and crowd control to explain the Gendarmes.
I modified the cover story used in order to get people to evacuate to a specific point or points so that if Gamma/Zeta do manage to set off the terror weapon we can immediately contain it and/or treat those civilians which are afflicted, and also so that if Gamma/Zeta don't set the terror weapon off they can't use the crowd to give law enforcement the slip because everyone will be going to a specific location to be processed.
- Location
- USA
[x] Have the pucks/potential pipe bombs brought down and disassemble them in a street-level mobile isolation chamber.
[x] Use the police already patrolling the mall to order an evacuation and hope people respond in time and without arguing.
[x] Land Gendarmes in the middle of the mall and accept the almost guaranteed panic.
[x] Use the police already patrolling the mall to order an evacuation and hope people respond in time and without arguing.
[x] Land Gendarmes in the middle of the mall and accept the almost guaranteed panic.
ThatGuyWithIdeas
Treize died for our sins
- Location
- Romania
[X] Plan Actually Airtight
- Location
- USA
Well the thing to remember is this is an abandoned unfinished construction site so there is a highly likely chance that there is three items to create a hermetically sealed room.
Plastic sheets, ducktape and staple/nail guns with staples/nails these items are proven to create a somewhat perfect Hermetically sealed environment and if they are straight up bombs then there's a bunch of materal around that can be used to soften the blow of an explosion.
- Location
- USA
So looking back over the update something caught my eye that to me makes calling for a MIC is a bad idea.
Once again if explosives you don't move them in fear of setting them off basic EOD procedure.
If these are Bio or Chem weapons then we might have a bigger problem... see these where kept under the subjects clothes' but a bio or chemical weapon on a timed delayed trigger based to go off sunlight or atmospheric conditions means that moving it to a MIC could be disastrous.
I truly believe that the best course of action is leave the pucks where they are make a ad-hoc Isolation environment and have it examined by remote control automations. This best protects our people and has the least risk to the population as a whole as what ever the pucks are can be contained to room they are in at minimum and the building as a whole.
we don't know what these highly dangerous things are and common sense says if you don't know what it is or how dangerous it is don't touch it.
Now I will say I am going to mod my plan a little to include plan AA's write in on crowd evacuation and setting up the hospital as looking at it I do believe that is actually a better write-in then mine.
Once again if explosives you don't move them in fear of setting them off basic EOD procedure.
If these are Bio or Chem weapons then we might have a bigger problem... see these where kept under the subjects clothes' but a bio or chemical weapon on a timed delayed trigger based to go off sunlight or atmospheric conditions means that moving it to a MIC could be disastrous.
I truly believe that the best course of action is leave the pucks where they are make a ad-hoc Isolation environment and have it examined by remote control automations. This best protects our people and has the least risk to the population as a whole as what ever the pucks are can be contained to room they are in at minimum and the building as a whole.
we don't know what these highly dangerous things are and common sense says if you don't know what it is or how dangerous it is don't touch it.
Now I will say I am going to mod my plan a little to include plan AA's write in on crowd evacuation and setting up the hospital as looking at it I do believe that is actually a better write-in then mine.
Moving the pucks down runs the risk of... well... moving them.
If the terrorists managed to prime them before being taken they might have hair trigger detonation.
There's way too many unknowns, it might be safer to just tamper with them on site.
After all, the building is empty. The perimeter has been secured.
If the terrorists managed to prime them before being taken they might have hair trigger detonation.
There's way too many unknowns, it might be safer to just tamper with them on site.
After all, the building is empty. The perimeter has been secured.
- Location
- USA
Yeah cause let's go over what we know and don't know.
Know:
-Hockey puck shaped
-Under targets clothes
-Target was part of a spy/terrorist ring
-Most likely some type of weapon
-Multiple of them
Unknown
-what type of weapon
-if armed or not
-Stability
-Sensitivity
-Trigger mechanism
-if they have already been set off or not.
-if on a timer or not.
What's possible
-Explosive
-Chemical Weapon
-Biological Weapon
-Radiological Weapon (note think this is pretty unlikely since no indication of ambient radiation spike detected)
-If Chemical or Biological could already been set off.
-If Explosive could be armed.
-Movement could set off weapon or spread payload if already set off.
yeah looking at this Known/Unknown/Possible I'm not comfortable with moving them.
No, this is just flat out wrong. For starters, staples/nails are exactly the sort of thing you don't want to use, because they create additional holes in the barrier. Secondly, duct tape comes loose too easily - particularly on flexible surfaces such as plastic sheeting. Thirdly, not all plastic sheeting is made equal - some of the types of plastic will work but others are permeable for entire classes of chemical, which means that whether or not any given plastic sheeting is viable (assuming you've somehow managed to magic away the first and second issues) is fundamentally a crapshoot.
"Somewhat perfect hermetically sealed environment" is an oxymoron - either it's up to CBRN standards or it's not.
Here's the thing - it's better to move them then not from a risk mitigation perspective.
This is because if they are pipe bombs, then having them go off in place means damage to an empty construction building with nobody around except law enforcement. If they're biological or chemical weapons, having them go off in an imperfectly sealed or open-air environment means fallout of some sort coming wherever is downwind (or is at risk of being downwind) of the building. One of those has a much higher degree of collateral damage than the other.
Meanwhile if the devices are moved, then if they're biological/chemical weapons than the MIL is the best possible solution, being designed for exactly this scenario. On the other hand, if they're conventional explosives, then moving them risks heavy damage to an MIL and the specialists running it. One of these is also worse than the other, but the worst likely case scenario when moving the devices is significantly less bad than the worst likely case scenario when leaving the devices in place.
Also, triggers based off of light levels would require a photovoltaic cell of some kind where it can be reached by light and would therefore be visible - and there's no way to rig a trigger for atmospheric conditions that could tell the difference between the inside of an open-air building and the outside of it, because as an open-air building it's by definition the same body of air.
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- Location
- USA
-Nails/staples are for anchoring the plastic sheet's
-Duct Tape is to cover the Nails/staples and seal the edges of the plastic
-The type of Plastic sheets that would be on a construction site are usually heavy and thick for covering entrances or to cover insulation.
also yes it's a oxymoron but there has to either be a opening to be used defeating the pruprose of a home made Hermetically sealed enviorment or a human can't use it because there is zero air flow leading to carbon dioxide poisonings there is proof that this happens cause people have died from such a set up.
no moving is not better from a risk mitigation perspective because A. if a explosive then you moved something of unknown stability and power. If biological or Chemical having no clue if set off or being damaged and leaking then moving it just spreads it around especially once you go out side not to mention the time waiting around for the MIL to arrive and be set up.
Light based triggers while needing a photoboltaic cell could be casing for a bomb or device not to mention for a bio or chemical weapon then it could be straight up just a solid chunk that starts to break down and spread when exposed to light.
As for atmospheric triggers while unlikely to be such a trigger and yes the building was finished it was pretty far in the construction and even a mostly completed building still has a little pressure difference especially when the weapon was made at a different elevation then the ground.
And if they go off before they are secured in the MIL?
You'll have risked detonation in open space rather than an ad hoc isolation area. Perhaps it's imperfectly sealed, but that's still better than your probable weapons detonating in open air while in transit.