Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

Audacious said:

I can't see any great reasons to NOT include as many influential people as possible other than sharing the potential reputation gains from success with more people.

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The big disadvantage of including more people is that it makes negotiations more complicated. Getting a larger group to coordinate is just more difficult.

That's not really enough to say that its a bad idea though. Getting buy-in from presumably three count clans will help a lot in making sure our agreements stick.

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. [Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.]

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

yrsillar said:

At least Biyu would be sold easily, she mused, glancing at the trotting dog.

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This is yrsillar saying that the quest voters has the mentality of a four year old.

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

I am in favor of explaining the situation to him, but I am thinking of something. It is Wang Chao we're talking to, not 'generic unimportant Wang family'. He seems troubled. Didn't we stress lots about how to talk to him forever ago, knowing he could be a bit... if not prickly, at least, sensitive. If we come to him asking favors, he might go "She only talks to me because of favors and influences for my clan. Bummer.", and the alternative might also bother him in a "She doesn't want to keep me up to date with what she's doing. I'm a second-rate friend/acquaintance".

There is no telling how things might go, and those above are just worst-case scenarios, but our discussion of long-term politics and whether it is more convenient to lean on the Wang clan or not in the near future seems to not pay much attention to "How will our relationship with Wang Chao be affected by this choice? Wil he like what we propose? Will he be troubled by it?"

The wang family has some approval of us, but he's our friend within the family and we might want to look at things from the angle of "How do we avoid alienating him?"

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

sergit said:

I am in favor of explaining the situation to him, but I am thinking of something. It is Wang Chao we're talking to, not 'generic unimportant Wang family'. He seems troubled. Didn't we stress lots about how to talk to him forever ago, knowing he could be a bit... if not prickly, at least, sensitive. If we come to him asking favors, he might go "She only talks to me because of favors and influences for my clan. Bummer.", and the alternative might also bother him in a "She doesn't want to keep me up to date with what she's doing. I'm a second-rate friend/acquaintance".

There is no telling how things might go, and those above are just worst-case scenarios, but our discussion of long-term politics and whether it is more convenient to lean on the Wang clan or not in the near future seems to not pay much attention to "How will our relationship with Wang Chao be affected by this choice? Wil he like what we propose? Will he be troubled by it?"

The wang family has some approval of us, but he's our friend within the family and we might want to look at things from the angle of "How do we avoid alienating him?"

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

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While that's fair, it's noted that he called on her, and so propriety requires that she wait for him to speak on whatever he cares about before attempting to pivot in the vote (if it wins), so it's super unlikely we're being set up like that.

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

[X] Explain the situation to Wang Chao, and see if he can put you in contact with any helpful relatives. (Opens Wang clan negotiations for next turn. Lean toward expanding count clan involvement.)

For me, this is about getting support for ensuring less war in the long run. More people who want trade with foreigners are less likely to go to war. On all sides. The more barbarian tribes farther off see more honor and value in the Emerald Seas, and not propaganda, which in turn limits raiders.

More people is harder, but ultimately necessary for CRX's dream

Wang rep witnessed mission debriefing so they know what's up. Duchess is handling mission logistics by providing advisors, stealth bodyguard and ground forces to secure summit site and deliver weregild. The mission is handled and Mr Wang "inconsiderate, tactless, punch through with singular overwhelming force" Chao is completely unnecessary. Yes LQ is asking for Wang family, not Chao himself, but how far does the acorn fall from the tree? Best snake n bloody Sun are chips off the 'ol block. Lan Lan is torn between acting like her mother's daughter or her father's son. Even if "tactless" isn't the family way, yrsillar hasn't told us how the Wangs are supposed to help us, just that we're gonna ask for helpful Wangs.

So what does involving the Wang clan (or other counts) actually mean?

1. Are we giving Wang the opportunity to gain glory on the coattails of our success by assigning Wang personnel to our elite mission? (Extra logistics support and goodwill for giving face, sounds good)

2. Are we asking Wang to advise a junior on diplomatic tactics like we did for point defense tactics? (Seems premature to get outside opinion as we have no reason to doubt our Cai advisors and risks LQ getting manipulated cause she's terribly green at business, intrigue and politics)

3. Does opening Wang negotiations mean
1. The social mechanic "Wang negotiations " is now available to the Ling clan? (Unlikely in this context but it would be awesome).
or
2. That we're negotiating re: the diplomatic mission, ie: Wang clan offering us benefits to either buy a seat at the negotiation summit or to buy our advocacy for Wang interests at the summit. (This seems like a political quagmire. Luo, Jia, Meng, Bao reps were also at the debriefing and privileging Wang interests above theirs is sure to cause conflict.)

So anyone know what we're actually asking / offering Wang Chao in this choice?