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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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[X] The Waystone Project
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
 
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BoneyM said:
Among the Elector Counts are two Grand Barons, three Grand Counts, one Grand Duke, two Grand Princes, a Graf, a Chancellor, and an Elder. Of the former Electors, Drakwald and Marienburg were Grand Counts, Middenheim and Talabheim were Grand Dukes (separate to the provinces of Middenland and Talabecland), and Solland was a Grand Baron.
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As I recall, Mathilde even went on something of a mental rant about that when I when we took those practical diplomacy lessons.

Speaking of diplomacy, actually, I had a question. In the College favor information, diplomacy is marked under practical skills, and not advanced. Does that mean we could only get trained up to a basic skill in that, or are there ways to get teachers up to advanced? I can't remember at the moment.
 
Ericwinter said:
Speaking of diplomacy, actually, I had a question. In the College favor information, diplomacy is marked under practical skills, and not advanced. Does that mean we could only get trained up to a basic skill in that, or are there ways to get teachers up to advanced? I can't remember at the moment.
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None of the curriculum options can get you up to advanced, that division is just about whether it's considered a core skill for a Grey Wizard or whether it's more of an elective.
 
[x] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[x] The Waystone Project
[x] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[x] Spymaster of Wissenland
[x] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
 
BoneyM said:
None of the curriculum options can get you up to advanced, that division is just about whether it's considered a core skill for a Grey Wizard or whether it's more of an elective.
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Ah, okay. Thanks. Just to be sure, would we be able to hire teachers in some other manner, like with gold or dwarf favor? Or is advanced something we would have to do through actual experience?
 
Finally caught up! I really should have known better than to leave this quest alone for more than a day after an update, especially for such an important vote. If I'd been earlier I might have done an analysis, or something like that, but I think most of the arguements have been said better by others.

Not going to lie, was not expecting the vote to be so close between the top four. Before the update I was thinking that The Waystone Project would have a decent lead due to how unique and shiny it is, but that hasn't quite been the case at all lol

Excellent options and update @BoneyM, I really enjoy how you write all the characters here, and in general, too. Anyway, onto the vote!

[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] The Waystone Project

My two main picks haven't really changed. I'd initially preferred Waystone, but after the chat with Belegar, well, he made a very good pitch for Loremaster so they're roughly equal in my ranking now.

[X] Border Princess of the Howling River
[X] Ranaldian High Priest of Kislev
[X] Governor-General of Swamp Town

These three get a vote because I liked the options. Disappointed we never got a closer look at the High Priest job, it would have been fun doing quests for the various Kislev Gods and Ranald. Border Princess and Swamp Town, in theory, are quite similar to each other. Civ building, just in different parts of the world. I do like civ building, especially if it's basically from the ground up like these practically are. The update did lower Swamp Town down my list a bit, but I really like the Lizardmen as a faction so I can't not vote for it.

[ ] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland

Surprisingly, I found that Markgraf was far more appealing than I initially expected. Quite a wide latitude on how to go about it and any support we need. Still doesn't get over the fact that we'd be stuck in Sylvania and most of our focus will have to be on Sylvania. I won't be too bothered if it won, which isn't the stance I would have taken before the update, however it isn't my preferred choice.

[ ] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred

While I strongly disagree with some of the characterisation of Heidi that people have been throwing around, the update did nothing to really increase my interest in the position. It seems like Loremaster-at-Large, but for the Empire, with the goal of accruing political favour for Mandred, so his position is more secure as the next Emperor. I'm fully behind helping Mathilde's godson secure his position as future Emperor, as any good Godmother should. It would also be helping out Ranald, our oldest friend. I just don't think they need the help that desperately and I am really not interested in Empire court politics.

If we want to help Ranald, High Priest of Kislev is arguably just as impactful, since it would be repairing his relations with an entire pantheon of Gods that he might have once been part of. Also proselytizing to the masses and gaining new worshippers in a different land. The image of Mathilde doing that in Kislev amuses me greatly, and I imagine Ranald as well.

[ ] Spymaster of Wissenland
[ ] Ambassador-at-Large to the Karaz Ankor
[ ] Count of Sylvania

The Spymaster offer was pretty good and I liked the Count, it just seems like a step back from where we currently are. Count of Sylvania seems a bit redundant when you could become Markgraf instead, even if that title isn't hereditary. Ambassador is literally politics but our boss is the Empire instead our good friend the Dwarf King.

*glances up at wall of text* Yeah, this totally isn't an analysis and effort post :V
 
BoneyM said:
Yes, teachers can be hired, that gives me more to work with than 'Mathilde goes to class again'.
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Cool! I'm definitely going to push for raising our diplomacy as high as possible if Waystones actually wins, then. And probably for the others, too, but those are a bit less dependent on diplomacy. Actual professional diplomat Mathilde would be cool.

Also, we just hit 500 votes. Woo! ...and now I'm going to bed. See y'all.
 
Dammit, in less than 24 hours we already have more than 500 voters, and the top 4 options are still at spitting distance of one another...
Adhoc vote count started by Fanhunter696 on Mar 7, 2021 at 5:07 AM, finished with 2148 posts and 501 votes.
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[x] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[x] Ambassador-at-Large to the Karaz Ankor
[x] Border Princess of the Howling River
[x] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
 
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Briefvoice said:
OVERALL COMMENT: For those who are really into research and developing new spells and the like, my opinion is that the more Mathilde's job is to be "in charge" the less research time she will have. When you have a subordinate position like Spymaster or Heidi's secret agent or Belegar's public agent you can define the limits of your job, know you're meeting expectations, and take the rest as "you time". If you're the person in charge like Markgraf or Border Princess, your job will always expand to the limits of your time. There will always be something else that Mathilde could be doing, and I think it will be much harder to find time for Academic and Magical Research Options when stuff like "better secure food supply" or "create court system" is on the table.
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This,
Briefvoice said:
[ ] The Waystone Project
Anything but Waystones.
I am at "anything but Waystones" but I fear the vote is going to open and Waystones will instantly pull to an insurmountable lead. Why am I opposed? I don't like how incredibly open-ended and vague the write-up we were given is. It's project where Mathilde would have to be the one trying to convince everyone that this is a good idea, unlike all the other jobs where there is a strong sponsor who wants it to happen and Mathilde is negotiating how she wants to do the job and what she wants out of it. Sure the Eonir made a half-assed proposal, but the level of effort they've put into this suggests to me that there's probably not what you'd call strong support. Who will fund this? Who will participate? It's all going to be a lot of politics and going around begging people to throw in, making the case over and over for why this is a good idea. Now yeah, sure, BoneyM can come up with something fun to do with it. I just think the other options will be more directed and enjoyable.

Remember this: There are no wrong answers here. Mathilde has earned the freedom to choose her own path in life, and it's entirely valid for her to pick something interesting over something responsible. Other competent people exist in the world, and will take the jobs that Mathilde doesn't.
We don't have to pick Waystones because it's the "responsible" option or because there's some obligation to "save the world" or something. Okay?

Okay, but then maybe I'll feel differently in 30 Turns. Because here's my other argument. This can wait. Unless a new War of Vengeance starts or something else upsets the applecart, the elves are almost definitionally patient. They would think nothing at all of waiting fifteen or twenty years until someone expresses interest in this. The dwarves are nearly as patient. And maybe this is a task best tackled at the peak of Mathilde's power, prestige, and knowledge, which I don't think she's achieved yet. Make more contacts, learn more about magic, grab some new traits. The Waystones will still be there.
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combined with this, was what made me shy away from the Waystone Project.

It felt too much like a job or goal that can become near-permanent or just really-long-term... well. Well, that. Long term.

Just getting everybody together, maybe (maybe) that'll be done in a few years. Getting everybody willing to talk. But, what then? After we've done the first part of the job? ... Well, we could call it a job done and move from there, but... But, there'll be more we could do.

This job could grow to consume our life, and I don't want that. Not yet, anyway. And even if it doesn't grow to consume our life -- such as if, for example, after 5-10 years we get a "You've gotten everybody on the same page and working together; retire or move on?" vote, then... well, that "the responsible thing" as you said could kick in and we could feel obligated to vote to remain.

So... I'd rather pick a job with a visible end in sight, or one where we can give it to somebody else, or a job that comes with serial adventures like Loremaster-at-Large or Imperial Troubleshooter. (Yes, I feel like Markgrafin is a job we can end or retire from. Because there are other people who can do the Markgrafin job. To the point where if we don't take the job, then somebody else will probably be made Markgraf. But Waystones? That one only starts when we start it. Because, currently, we're the only access point the Eonir have towards the Karaz Ankor, so far.)
Briefvoice said:
[ ] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
There will be some actual bodyguard work involved, but it's evident that won't be the majority of it. The focus will be on being a traveling troubleshooter for the Emperor Empress, earning political favor. Let me pull out a few things that may not be immediately obvious:

1. Did you want to extract van Horstmann from his bad situation? As Heidi points out, the Emperor's orders override those of the College. We could easily make "I'd like my friend Egrimm as an assistant," one of the conditions of employment, and he'd be out from under his Patriarch's thumb.

2. I am very interested in "getting Ranald in our debt". As Mathilde points out, His repayments can be lavish.... and perhaps we can ask for specific things. Are you excited about theurgy? Is Ranald excited about having a future Emperor in His pocket? Would you like to see if two people with things they are excited about could come to a mutually beneficial relationship?
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Yeah, once I realized that we could do stuff like "Bug Heidi for lessons on Ranald divine miracles and sleight-of-hand (and mundane Diplomacy and Intrigue lessons too!)"... well.

I got more interested in that.

This could be a job that allows us to explore what a priest of Ranald does. We could get shared stories and lessons from a priest(ess) or worshipper of Ranald.

(Obviously, the Chief Pope of Ranald job is this except even more-so of course! Which is why I'd be interested in doing that too.)

But, yeah. Very tempting.
 
Briefvoice said:
Agonizing over how long to hold out with one vote for my preferred voice and when to start doing an oppositional "literally anything but waystones, literally anything" vote.
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It's simple really.
If the distance between something you really don't want and something you're okay with is smaller than the distance between something you're okay with and something you really want, then you approval the specific something you're okay with.
Drucchi said:
because a markgraf doesn't get a runefang.
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Count doesn't either. We'd be the count or baron of one of four minor counties or baronies in "Eastern Stirland", not Elector Countess of the autonomous Grand County of Sylvania. Roswita is giving us the job either way and she isn't gonna hand us her Runefang.
I'm not even sure if Sylvania ever had a Runefang. If it did, Vlad von Carstein would have gotten it after his wife inherited it.
Drucchi said:
If we do well enough I would wager we could ask the Emperor for an upgrade to our title. I mean it is quite the propaganda win for any Emperor to say that a long lost province has not only been reclaimed but restored. So that is why.
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Markgraf is the title with more control and power over all of Sylvania.
Being the Count/Baron of Waldenhof, Tempelhof, Mikalsdorf or Nachthafen doesn't make us more eligible to become EC than Baron Anton Kiesinger of Blutdorf is.
Also, the Emperor would literally have to strip the land from Roswita to hand it to us. Why would Luitpold (or later Mandred) do that and why would we want to do that to Roswita?
If you still think that this is the best path to get what you want then by all means. I just want to make sure you're not voting like that over a misunderstanding.
Absoloot said:
ridiculous turn
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I see what you did there.
BoneyM said:
Middenheim and Talabheim were Grand Dukes
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Wait, there was Middenheim and Talabheim were Electors at the same time as Middenland and Talabecland???
 
[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Bodyguard and Tutor to Prince Mandred
 
One of the reasons i like Bodyguard option is that it has a fairly clear win condition (kid makes it to adult), and an end point (kid makes it to adult), with increasing degrees of success from there.
Markgraf has potential to go on forever, Loremaster at Large will always have more to do.
Waystones has a potential to become a forever project as well, but the potential rewards are so high that i am willing to risk it.
 
Rafin said:
Wait, there was Middenheim and Talabheim were Electors at the same time as Middenland and Talabecland???
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Yes, they're both city-states independent of the province they're in that just happen to be under the control of the Elector Counts of said provinces at this point in history. Technically the Elector Count of Middenland is the Grand Duke of Middenland, 'Graf' is the title associated with Middenheim. Both city-states lost their Elector status as part of Magnus' electoral reforms.
 
Ekzentric Lohner said:
I wish I could keep up with it all. :cry:

Any other non-threadmarked, non-Boney-replied gems you'd like to point out?
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The trick I use is scrolling through the whole thread fast and reading those comments that catch my eye (I'm a sucker for formatted lists) and those that get many reactions. If I have more time I look for keywords or subject matter.

This time around though I took the time to actually read half or more of the comments and pretty much every effort post analysis. It seemed like an important occasion.
 
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