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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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matvprok said:
This expedition defeated army of daemons, including possibly-Greater-daemon, back on Vlag. We have reached Dum mostly unscathed and sure as fuck could survive several days or more.
The Expedition wasn't expected to go as lucky as we got. Every single person here was expected to die in Chaos Wastes, and every single person here knew that when they subscribed to going to Dum. How about cease being cowards and panickers and try to actually do the purpose of our trip here - finding in what condition Karag Dum is and relaying this information to Karaz Ankor and Old World?
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Firstly if your trying to convince someone, I recommend not insulting them

As to the gist of your argument. Everyone else in the expedition appears to have come to the same conclusion. Snorri is perfectly fine concluding the affair here with the proof of what we've already seen.

There is a batsman demigod standing between us and a mountain filled with possibly hostile dwarves. With a massive forest of age and creepiness factor equal to the Drakwald added for flavor.

Yes we leave empty handed (except for Karak Vlag). Yes we did fight an army of demons (magnitudes smaller that what's in that forest, in prepared fortified terrain while they were weakened and while they were on a strict time limit unable to cast sorcery, and unfamiliar with the area in general). But we are simply not equipped to deal with this.
 
Lonkas said:
Snorri is perfectly fine concluding the affair here with the proof of what we've already seen.
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Not exactly?
BoneyM said:
"I want to know what Gotrek died for," Snorri says. "If whatever's in there isn't boiling out of it to take a swing at us..."
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He certainly had his own "Zog that." moment when he first saw what was happening, but now that it's become clear that the Karak might not be Chaos aligned, he at least wants some closure.
 
Katahiraga said:
Besides morality of leaving Karag Dum thinking that they will be abandoned, its still her duty to bring back accurate and reliable news and if possible to recover a Karak, and if they have not fallen, they she should try her best to put out any potential political fires, misunderstandings between Karak Dum and the other Karaks.

Its not suicidal, you forgot, that Borek only left for a few hours, so he's probably dazed and wandering around the Karak doing who knows what, so giving him time to respond , while Mathilde and the expedition make their own plans to intiate contact if he fails to respond will accomplish the two objectives which is to get accurate news and if possible to retake or defend the Karaks.

We have time to spare, since the area we are in is similar to Stirland on a windy day regarding Dhar, thus safer than the chaotic wasteland.
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If there is any central authority in Dum Borek is most likely being debriefed. They are not going to have him wander aimlessly. This is why I picked fortify, if after a day they don't want to talk to us then we should not stay. Trying to represent them to the rest of Karaz Ankor requires some cooperation from them. We can only help people if they are willing to let us help them. At best right now they are debating on how to respond. At worst whatever they have done is bad enough that the people of Karag Dum, who I will remind you are by any account we have not really ashamed of being radical, do not think can be defended, either they understand outsiders will never forgive them, or that even they can't forgive themselves doing it in the first place.
 
[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
[X] Leave

Got to 8140 of 8192. Too tired to read anymore , so here's a vote.
 
@Chopak Your write-in plan would probably have very similar results to "[] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day", which is currently second by a single vote. Can I convince you to approval vote for several options that seem decent to you (including maybe the one I mention above) instead of only voting for a single thing?
 
To my mind, primary (though not only) purpose of this expedition was discovering the fate of Karag Dum.

Whether you view the last two updates as the aforementioned discovery probably dictates on which part of the stay vs leave debate one is.

I personally don't, others obviously do.

Sadly, for the last x number of pages, I haven't seen any new arguments to further weigh in on the matter.

At this point of time, there's only additional vitriol arising from going in circles.
 
Rather than a rock, maybe we could use one of those message-arrows the rangers were using to communicate between the steam-wagons?

Or a whole bunch of them.
 
Rafin said:
@Chopak Your write-in plan would probably have very similar results to "[] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day", which is currently second by a single vote. Can I convince you to approval vote for several options that seem decent to you (including maybe the one I mention above) instead of only voting for a single thing?
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yeah, sure, but i'll vote for both leading votes :p

[X] Spectate the Tribes "testing against the Dum". Watch for Cor-Dum abilities and its effects on chaos tribes.
[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
[X] Approach the Kvellige camp peacefully and attempt to discuss the Karak with them
 
Shovern said:
Maybe engrave a message onto a cannon ball and send that their way?
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Might risk provoking the recipient.

LightLan said:
To 1:
To date Mathilde can only recognize Ranald, Mork and Gork instantly.
A couple hours of study won't give her that capability, we are talking months there. We don't have that much food.
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I believe that's just as speculative as my idea that Mathilde will be able to recognize the magic. Mathilde has excellent windsight and this is a regularly repeating magical phenomenon with a readily observable effect.

We can't know either way but my current thinking is that if Mathilde makes an effort to learn how to recognize this magic then she has a very nearly guaranteed chance of pulling it off. How achievable this actually is likely remains unknown until we give it a shot but I'm optimistic.
LightLan said:
To 2:
If you have risk free ways to get more information I am not against those, but they don't exist.
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Well no argument here. Any method to gain more information is likely more dangerous than immediately leaving. The last information gathering sessions gave us quite a bit of useful information and I view the current risks of the low danger information gathering actions as worth the potential rewards.
LightLan said:
To 3:
We already know the beastman are real. We dug up a couple skeletons of them. Which also lends additional credence to this really being Morghur.
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There's plenty of alternative explanations that make just as much sense, the beastmen are real but we're not certain about what's up with Morghur. I'm partial to the disguise rune explanation since it help explain the lack of warping, chaos spawn, and Borek's headpats.
LightLan said:
To 4:


Even if they have (currently) total control of Morghur the reaction still is Kill It With Fire from the Empire and Karaz Ankor.
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It remains speculation that what we saw is really Morghur. The appearance matches the rumors, but the actions appear divergent enough to put it into question.
 
[X] Leave

changing vote to just leave instead of adding contact. The odds of it being in our favor again is too low for me to be comfortable with. I am ok with returning only with incomplete information.

We got waay lucky in the approach to here. Let us see if we continue to be lucky on pur way back.

I am fine with fortifying here and seeing if anyone in our caravan can get more info when not pressed as much for time. I just don't want to vote for it because we are in charge of the magic users, and I don't want anyone to be stupid and use magic right now.
 
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BoneyM said:
Seriously considering a threadwide ban on posting any tabletop statlines because this is the kind of thing it leads to, people disregarding everything said IC and OOC and looking at the raw numbers and saying 'our number is bigger than his number, what's the problem?'
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Do it! Get rid of that stupid 'mathy statline' while your at it.

It's the main offender of this type of shit.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
Do it! Get rid of that stupid 'mathy statline' while your at it.

It's the main offender of this type of shit.
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I don't see why it's such a problem. If it actually gets to thread-disrupting proportions I'd rather have something more specific like a ban on stat-based versus discussions while the vote is open. Because as far as thread madness is concerned I don't see it as inherently worse than other fun idiocy. And people taking the math behind a game we are not currently playing as more than a curiosity and some limited insight into the minds of the lore creators are a small and not all that loud minority.
 
So the desert keeps bothering me, and thus I'm growing fond of the "wait and see" approach, because I think we are missing a piece of the puzzle and hopefully watching a battle will solve it.

At this point I suspect something might crawl out of the sands and smite the Kurgan because there has to be a reason why they are turning the area around them into a kill zone for their own defenders.


[X] Fortify here and see if anything interesting happens over the next day
 
das_slash said:
So the desert keeps bothering me, and thus I'm growing fond of the "wait and see" approach, because I think we are missing a piece of the puzzle and hopefully watching a battle will solve it.

At this point I suspect something might crawl out of the sands and smite the Kurgan because there has to be a reason why they are turning the area around them into a kill zone for their own defenders.
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I mean, we're pretty sure it's part of the mechanic of 'push back the Chaos wastes'. Personally, I'm a fan of the Karak Zorn connection idea given its' locale. It's definitely a bit of a puzzle though, and I'm going to busy myself with a re-read of the last 20 or so updates to see if anything jumps out at me.
 
HungryHamadryad said:
I mean, we're pretty sure it's part of the mechanic of 'push back the Chaos wastes'. Personally, I'm a fan of the Karak Zorn connection idea given its' locale. It's definitely a bit of a puzzle though, and I'm going to busy myself with a re-read of the last 20 or so updates to see if anything jumps out at me.
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Maybe, but why a desert when everything else would work just as well, and not provide an open field for cavalry and horse archers?

Specially since they apparently can also bring forests, which actually provide an advantage.
 
das_slash said:
Maybe, but why a desert when everything else would work just as well, and not provide an open field for cavalry and horse archers?

Specially since they apparently can also bring forests, which actually provide an advantage.
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Purely for defensive terrain, a desert probably is, in fact, better than a forest. Their primary defenses are going to be on the mountain itself. A forest will be providing attackers cover from the mountain defenses, providing the attackers with raw material for constructing siege weapons and field works, and will have relatively solid ground for said siege weapons and field works. A desert won't be providing cover for attackers, won't be providing raw materials, the anomalous increased heat will increase attrition among the attackers, and the ground being sand is worse for the movement of attackers and the construction of field works.
 
das_slash said:
Maybe, but why a desert when everything else would work just as well, and not provide an open field for cavalry and horse archers?
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Presumably because the divine intervention involves either a Nehekharan God, and/or because the terrain is literally being switched out with the terrain elsewhere as part of the process. I made a post about it back here.
Our resident dirt expert listed all the places he knows of that have the correct sand, and Nehekhara caught my attention because most maps place the lost Karak Zorn there. Incidentally, Zorn is also older than the Karaz Ankor, which fits nicely with the whole theme of things best left forgotten.
 
[X] Attempt to approach Morghur to see if he can be communicated with

Refuge in audacity tends to work pretty well for Mathilde
 
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