It's a Girl's World -- And Lilly wants Adventure

[X] Plan: Rise Young Girl To the Heavens like a Legend! (Hopefully with less tang)
-[X] [DreamLVL] She carried it with her always, no matter how far apart they drifted.
-[X] [Milestone] Extend a Power's potential.
--[X] [Milestone-Power] {Golden Rapture} (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
-[X] [CleaverLVL] It looked harmless, but fate told her the truth.
-[X] [N:FES] [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock]
-[X] [S:FES] [Towering Edifice to Heaven | 7958-A Series, Regional Stressor Event]
-[X] [SoT] Exalted Flesh

[X] [S:FES] [Blanket Weaponiser | 7441-C, Generic Inspiring Obstacle]
[X] [S:FES] [Championed Uplift | 0000-A, 2nd​ Integration Stage Initializer]
[X] [S:FES] [Library of Achievement | 5034-CD, Ancient Recall]

[X] [DreamLVL] She carried it with her always, no matter how far apart they drifted.
[X] [Milestone] Extend a Power's potential.
- [X] [Milestone-Power] {Golden Rapture} (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
[X] [DwtFAME] I embrace the connection between all things. (Chapter 2.1)
[X] [CleaverLVL] It looked harmless, but fate told her the truth.
[X] [N:FES] [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock]
[X] [S:FES] [Reinterpretation Seed | 566-B, Manoth Placement Approval Only ]
[X] [SoT] Core Anchor

yeah, from what we've seen of the inverted Ethea so far I think they generally tend to push you down a villainous route, at least in attitude if not in deed. Between [My Beautiful Pain], [I Tear The Veil] and if it's true that [Reinterpretation Seed] is a Dark Lord's lair that seems to be the broader theme between them.

NotteBoy97 said:

But I feel this is actually pretty bad for us as useful as it is to be fateless cause if we can't predict our own future than how will Ladder work?

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I very much doubt that an Ethos can interfere with itself, that seems extremely counterproductive and unlikely to me, considering that these are designed by someone else and not naturally ocurring.

So about our namesake and the scary entity behind it. I'm pretty sure it's Flower the apparent Big God thingy countering the Colossi which seems to be the Maw. I say this because Evie literally calls us one of Flower's Bloomlings. Now for what that means who knows but it probably plays into how Lilly is special even beyond living in interesting times and having the ability to pick multiple Ethoses. Like iirc the Prime Tree and Evie have implied we're part of a larger entity which I assume is Flower or Flower's child since whatever name for a flower's child than a Lilly?

Edited in to prevent double posting.

sheep-dodger said:

I very much doubt that an Ethos can interfere with itself, that seems extremely counterproductive and unlikely to me, considering that these are designed by someone else and not naturally ocurring.

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What's the point of it mentioning that no one can tell our future not even ourselves if not to warn us that we'll not be able to tell our future? Like I'm not sure if it will completely screw over Ladder but I'm sure making ourselves harder to predict will interfere with our prediction engine. Especially since Ladder in general is pretty low level in general.

[X] [DreamLVL] She carried it with her always, no matter how far apart they drifted.

[X] [Milestone] Do more with Essence. (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
-[X] [Milestone-Essence] Awareness - Outer (DC 60)
-[X] [Milestone-Essence] Shaping - Intuit (DC 60)
-[X] [Milestone-Essence] Shaping - Directed (DC 60)
-[X] [Milestone-Essence] Source - Channel (DC 60)
[X] [Milestone] Extend a Power's potential.
-[X] [Milestone-Power] {Golden Rapture} (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
-[X] [Milestone-Power] {Collective Communion} (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)

[X] [CleaverLVL] It looked harmless, but fate told her the truth.

[X] [N:FES] [Quickwrit Stennovoker]
[X] [N:FES] [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock]
[X] [N:FES] [Overlooked Maiden]
[X] [N:FES] [Sorcerer]

[X] [S:FES] [Rapid Iterator | 2873-2A, Efficient Tension Sustainment]
[X] [S:FES] [Towering Edifice to Heaven | 7958-A Series, Regional Stressor Event]
[X] [S:FES] [Reinterpretation Seed | 566-B, Manoth Placement Approval Only ]
[X] [S:FES] [Malleable Elemental Pioneer | 1000-A, 'No Focal Concept Selected']
[X] [S:FES] [Blanket Weaponiser | 7441-C, Generic Inspiring Obstacle]

[X] [SoT] Exalted Flesh
[X] [SoT] Core Anchor

Thanks, Yolun! Maybe next time actually tell Lilly important info about the wider world, beforehand. Did you ever consider that the next day, you may have already turned into a werewolf and become implacably hostile towards her? Did you? Did you! Well, neither did I.

Possible daughters:

• Eevie
• Herself (if considering her more ancient self as the forest/Prime Tree)

The "problem", as such, with both of these is that they were both based on player choice/rolls. Not that that's necessarily an issue.

Slyvena said:

I won't force one. Lilly already has an unfair advantage by having a group of shiny-chasing gamblers help shape her decisions. That's practically a super!!!1 power on its own.

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FTFY

Slyvena said:

Of course you probably want to ask yourself why Captain Martin took such a small group in in the first place.
Mystery abounds.

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This was precisely my own thought a short way through the update. You would think that ablative armor for the main group would be a good measure.

He maybe hints at having future-sight (or it might just be common sense that doesn't really work for Lilly's situation).

...

The Ethos are going to require significantly more thought. Don't have anything but the obvious to add to them for now. Will come back to it later.

Note: In all this analysis, don't forget that we've caught the notice of Valarie, and should be picking our ethos to prepare for her as well.

Alectai said:

The thing about [Overlooked Maiden] is that it's almost certain that any society that has existed a non-trivial amount of time in this setting probably has counterplay for this kind of perception-fuckery, and the very presence of it would be a deep red flag.

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I mean, yes in principle, but in practice remember that they're adapted for mono-Ethos people. If [Overlooked Maiden] is your one ethos, then you can only present so much of a threat. More of a threat than the cognitohazard suggests, but still only so much.

People with a cognitohazard "don't notice me" Ethos are potentially dangerous, but the dangers will tend to be concrete and direct, not abstract and long-term. The danger is them walking into your kitchen and slipping warfarin into your chimichangas, which can be prevented with tight physical security. It's not so much that they'll achieve lasting change in the world in and of themselves, because their Ethos isn't going to give them a lot of leverage except to do things that, by definition, usually won't be noticed.

Bedrock though? Bedrock is very appealing, but so is the Stenvoker.

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I want [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] for the utility. It makes it a lot easier to save Lilly's father, and it probably confers considerable resistance to the category of "turning into something not recognizably human" Bad Ends we've been informed about. This is especially a concern with Evie about to remake Lilly's whole physiology and with who knows what the implications of the new Foundational Ethos coming into play.

It's not pure power, but it is conceptual protection against what would otherwise be a very tricky category of threats to Lilly that can't be blown up with raw power.

NotteBoy97 said:

What's the point of it mentioning that no one can tell our future not even ourselves if not to warn us that we'll not be able to tell our future? Like I'm not sure if it will completely screw over Ladder but I'm sure making ourselves harder to predict will interfere with our prediction engine. Especially since Ladder in general is pretty low level in general.

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I'll admit, my reasoning is more meta-gaming than strictly textual. We know that Ethea/Integration Vectors are not naturally developing but are most likely things specifically designed by the powers that be and somehow incarnations of those individuals inside the Melange layers, compare this bit from Championed Uplift for example:

Slyvena said:

Weavers are reminded that inducing Melange bleedthrough on a subject who has failed their trials may irretrievably scatter your Divinity, the trials are there by definition to test compatibility before the fact. We have patched most loopholes and if we catch you, you'll be Identity-Wiped at best (all your Vectors will also be moved to the back of the queues when you reincorporate.)

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Integration Vectors seem to be one way for Weavers to manifest on the Melange layers, so it wouldn't make sense to me that [Cleaver of Fortune] would contain an ability that counteracts a different ability that are both part of the same Weaver/Integration Vector. That would be super shoddy design. (which doesn't mean it's impossible or that it couldn't impact Ladder negatively, but I feel like the kind of future vision offered by Sample Space or Ladder might be conceptually different enough from other divination methods that it wouldn't be affected too badly. My thinking is that [Cleaver of Fortune] changes the plans of the supernatural powers by adding the small weight it can affect in the right time, while regular divination is more of a read-only thing [though of course that's related somewhat])

That consideration of what Weavers and Integration Vectors do also leads me to another suspicion regarding the earlier question why the Foundational Vectors care so much about producing a specific state of conflict and ongoing growth in the melange layer: the reason that Flower and the Maw are pouring time and effort into the melange layer is that if a subject achieves a sufficient level of integration they can be pulled out of the melange layer and engage in the conflict that is currently ongoing. After all we don't know how long Flower and Maw have been fighting, maybe the entire reason this world exists is solely to recruit for that battle, or maybe the melange layer (melange is after all a word that means mixing) only exists at the intersection of the Maw and Flower and is being cultivated in order to serve in that fight by both sides.
From the description of [Championed Uplift] we know that a long term plan is to provide everyone with 2nd stage Integration Vectors, so to me it makes sense that the higher order plan for the melange layer is to increase overall strength of the population. (which is also the process of maturing of the tapestry mentioned in [Infernal Realm Anchor])
The intended followup to that is probably the melange bleadthrough also mentioned in [Championed Uplift], which I assume means pulling people out of the melange layer. (which is why it's important to test potential individuals first because apparently existing outside of the melange layers means having to deal with identity fracture [which makes sense considering that Weavers constantly insert parts of themselves into the melange layer through Integration Vectors])
So my assumption for the moment is that our world first and foremost exists as some sort of spawning ground for the broader war we've seen Evie comment on earlier.

[X] Alectai

Simon_Jester said:

I want [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] for the utility. It makes it a lot easier to save Lilly's father, and it probably confers considerable resistance to the category of "turning into something not recognizably human" Bad Ends we've been informed about. This is especially a concern with Evie about to remake Lilly's whole physiology and with who knows what the implications of the new Foundational Ethos coming into play.

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Depending on how exactly [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] turns out and develops it might also help against Valerie's power. It looks like she can command people to do/become things and reshape their reality through her commands, this might be at least somewhat counteracted by [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] considering that it's description states:

Slyvena said:

the truth of your origins will only grow deeper and more firm over time. Others will find themselves more solid and at ease in your presence. Decay will pause, decoherence will suspend, unravelling will be held in place. Whatever someone has been, you can always help them rediscover; no matter how lost they have become. Your very nature is a firm foundation on which the unstable may gain respite. You are the objective constant around which change must orbit.

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I feel like that might give us a shot at resisting commands i.e. to self-immolate, because we are secure in our knowledge that we are in fact not currently on fire, despite what she might assert. My hope at least would be that this would give us a shot to defend against her powers in Will vs Will battles rather than just being overwhelmed.

[My Resolution, Thy Bedrock] might help with combating Valarie's power and external incursions in general, especially if allies are essence-linked to us like right now. (We'd still be vulnerable to surprise attacks, however.)

It may also synergize with Will Form, making concept-attacking attacks less likely to take.

(Obstinate Rejection might also help, but I think it's less likely.)

This is not even considering the other benefits everyone else has already brought up. I think all this adds up to a sure best, so preliminary vote will be:

[X] [N:FES] [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock]

Tally is borked as heck. It's showing six votes for Overlooked Maiden, where there are only actually two (Edifier and Aerrow Shadow).

@Slyvena My Resolution, Thy Bedrock is apparently being, shall we say, Overlooked.

Slyvena said:

Of course you probably want to ask yourself why Captain Martin took such a small group in in the first place.
Mystery abounds.

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I suspect that either Spontaneous Dungeon Formation is something that the government would prefer to stay secret and only sends elites to deal with, or that Captain Martin knows that the Dungeon's Core Defenses are limited by the number of challenging adventurers approaching at one time (sending in an army gives it "permission" to open the floodgates). Although, I have a theory about why Captain Martin wished for us to accompany him into a freaking dungeon for "wealth and favour".

Captain Martin: I'm not sure how much you've overheard, but I will relay what I can so that you have a fuller picture. There is a government mandate that young people from remote villages who demonstrate exceptional Ethos are subject to the Tithe, where they will be taken to a nearby City for assignment and training. As an incentive, the Lore Wardens of various towns are rewarded a "finder's fee" of wealth and prestige for identifying and reporting. When the Lore Warden thought you were a...less than optimal healer, there wasn't as much incentive to send your records up the chain, but with the abilities you have publically demonstrated, and with your father...indisposed and unable to raise opposition, he will most likely be trying to start the process of having you sent away. As Watch Captain of Harmuph, I am not granted the authority to countermand him. However, there is a...loophole that you now qualify for.

Lilly Silas, I recognize your direct and significant contributions to the neutralization of a nascent dungeon, and can swear this under truth spell. By the power vested in me as a Gold Rank Adventurer of the Realm, I hereby grant you the title of Obsidian Rank Adventurer. As a registered asset of the realm, I have the authority to claim you as an apprentice until countermanded by a higher authority...with the Lore Warden being outside the chain of command. There will be rigourous training involved, but you will be able to do so here in Harmuph. This will give you time to attune to your Locus, prepare for a more prestigous position...and treat your father as best we can.

Utter confusion at what the hell is going on in the metaphysics continues. Oh well, fun to read anyway.

By the way, there are people that for the tally are voting for overlooked maiden, but they actually aren't in their voting posts.

It's the Fourth Wall breach the Infernal Realm Anchor description was warning us about! The Overlooked Maiden is affecting us already!

We all voted for her and we didn't even know!

So we want to be able to heal dad right? My guess is the easiest way to do this is to well improve our healing abilities, since essence based healing is op. Since this is not trivial, and we dont have any way of immediaty doing that, the second best thing is to probably improve lilly's shaping abilities. That should at least prevent further corruption and help us speed the healing up.

I'm not sure about what else I want but

[X] [Milestone] Do more with Essence. (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
- [X] [Milestone-Essence] Shaping - Directed (DC 60)

This would probably help us the best for healing dad

[X] Plan: Rise Young Girl To the Heavens like a Legend! (Hopefully with less tang)
-[X] [DreamLVL] She carried it with her always, no matter how far apart they drifted.
-[X] [Milestone] Extend a Power's potential.
--[X] [Milestone-Power] {Golden Rapture} (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
-[X] [CleaverLVL] It looked harmless, but fate told her the truth.
-[X] [N:FES] [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock]
-[X] [S:FES] [Towering Edifice to Heaven | 7958-A Series, Regional Stressor Event]
-[X] [SoT] Exalted Flesh

[X] Plan: Rise Young Girl To the Heavens like a Legend! (Hopefully with less tang)
-[X] [DreamLVL] She carried it with her always, no matter how far apart they drifted.
-[X] [Milestone] Extend a Power's potential.
--[X] [Milestone-Power] {Golden Rapture} (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
-[X] [CleaverLVL] It looked harmless, but fate told her the truth.
-[X] [N:FES] [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock]
-[X] [S:FES] [Towering Edifice to Heaven | 7958-A Series, Regional Stressor Event]
-[X] [SoT] Exalted Flesh

Rockeye said:

Utter confusion at what the hell is going on in the metaphysics continues. Oh well, fun to read anyway.

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is there any specific thing you're confused about? I think I have a surface understanding of what's going on or at least my own guess.

Ah right! Advancing our skills so we could remove the corruption from pops.
I didn't quite understand how he is affected and how we need to develop to get the power to cut the cancer out...

[X] Plan: Rise Young Girl To the Heavens like a Legend! (Hopefully with less tang)
-[X] [DreamLVL] She carried it with her always, no matter how far apart they drifted.
-[X] [Milestone] Extend a Power's potential.
--[X] [Milestone-Power] {Golden Rapture} (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
-[X] [CleaverLVL] It looked harmless, but fate told her the truth.
-[X] [N:FES] [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock]
-[X] [S:FES] [Towering Edifice to Heaven | 7958-A Series, Regional Stressor Event]
-[X] [SoT] Exalted Flesh

[ ] Plan: Rise Young Girl To the Heavens like a Legend! (Hopefully with less tang)

Unless some new analysis pops up, I'll vote for this.

-[X] [DreamLVL] She carried it with her always, no matter how far apart they drifted.
[X] [Milestone] Do more with Essence. (x150%) (DC 40x1.5=60)
- [X] [Milestone-Essence] Shaping - Directed (DC 60)
-[X] [CleaverLVL] It looked harmless, but fate told her the truth.
-[X] [N:FES] [My Resolution, Thy Bedrock]
-[X] [S:FES] [Towering Edifice to Heaven | 7958-A Series, Regional Stressor Event]
-[X] [SoT] Exalted Flesh

I'll admit I don't really understand why everyone is going for improving {Golden Rapture} over {Collective Communion}
Yes, {Sympathetic Linkage} is the only skill we've capped for now, but both {Heartstaff} and {Attuned Locus} are only one and two levels respectively away from capping too and {Attuned Locus} is most likely going to go up again when we manage to visit the Prime Tree. In addition to that the subskills for {Collective Communion} are just straight up more important than those of {Golden Rapture} imo, considering that {Attuned Locus} says this in its description:

The Prime Tree.

It's a part of me in some fundemental way. While I slept under an ordinary tree, we became entwined around each other until the difference became arbitrary.
I used to not get the implications of this, but I do now. Not matter what happens to one of us, the other can always bring them back. I have two lives now, equally valuable. It is also the source of my Essence Channel, a natural immense resevoiur of centuries of life.

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This plus the immense usefulness of {Heartstaff} in combination with {Objective Awareness} from [Brave Blood] makes it a pretty clearly superior option for improvement to me at least. Plus it seems likely to me that this kind of upgrade opportunity only comes every five levels, which means that the next upgrade for [Dream Within a Forest] is a whopping 18500 XP away, so we'll have capped out every subskill of {Collective Communion} a long time before that happens.