- Location
- The Netherlands
i think it means the fat one since it mentions us bringing him here from the east
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Pretty sure the "King and Companions returned from the East with wise serpent" indicates it is referring to Yss, whereas Zathir's entrance was more of a sudden "and now we have two snake gods" thing, no "return from auspicious journey". In fact our movements haven't had reliable reports since Mantarys arc in rumors. We are inscrutable in our travels.
- Location
- France
We really need to see this on-screen.
- They're not an approved religion, so the issue would have come up on someone's desk and it would likely have been brought up to our face (either at court, or with our administrative paperwork once it went all the way up the chain). I mean, becoming an approved religion is quite easy IIRC (didn't we auto-approve all of them except the actual cults to evil Outsiders and the one whose "God" told us he didn't exist?). Nevertheless, this issue should start going up the chain as someone asks themselves "could this be a front for devil-worship? Should I ask the Inquisitors to look into this?" or as soon as there's a big brawl between Dragon-worshippers and Rhllorites who think we're Azor Ahai.
- Have they started getting magic yet? Does Viserys "feel" it happen? Does he hear their prayers (probably not) and does he hear them individually ask for spells? What are the mechanics of this?
- Will there by a research action to investigate this a little? IMO it'd be OOC for there not to be one, even if the research action doesn't have any mechanical effects beyond "Viserys reassured" or "a little more knowledge about Mythic vs divine stuff"
- Location
- Germany
There was never a vote or anything on the topic and it was kinda just quietly assumed that we recognized all faiths present in the Imperium at the time by the assumption that if we hadn't sent the Inquistion to put the jackboot down on something, we were fine with it.
I wouldn't call it "auto approval" though.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Just a little casual heresy. @TalonofAnathrax Keep in mind proscribed religions are the exception, not the rule. The only real legislation behind it is that you can't act with Official caste capacities or authorities and expect equivalent legal protection or rights unless you are officially recognized. It's not like we arrest people for worshiping clouds (it's not feasible), but we do on the other hand have extra-judicial obligations like our whole thing with Trios. Which subsequently will become judicial when we officially proscribe against it.
- Location
- United States
1. Approving our own worshipers shouldn't be the biggest problem for us. We'll just fold them into the Imperial Administration when the time comes for proper clerics. As for auto-approval, not really. We're fairly picky in which religions we approve. If a religion is too minor or too disorganized, while they're not going to be persecuted unless they break the law they're not necessarily going to be endorsed by us. We're only approving organized religions who have a clergy willing and able to answer to the law, and whose gods we have an understanding with (exception being the Seven whose worshipers are simply far too numerous for us not to endorse the religion). An example of an ignored religion would be the Drunken God of Tyrosh. It's not getting persecuted since they were apparently infiltrated by some random alchemist, but they're definitely not getting an imperial endorsement.
2. I agree, we're overdue in seeing Viserys being able to grant cleric spells. I really want to see our first cleric minions.
3. I think this research action can be folded into the Imperial Deity's research actions.
- Location
- France
That's what I meant by "approved", yeah. I guess that there could be a situation in which a religion isn't banned, but also isn't recognized as such by the law (so priests and churches couldn't get the benefits of being part of a clergy).
If that is where the dragon-worshippers are, we should see that on-screen! It's an interesting first, isn't it?
- Location
- Germany
To be clear: preaching without being a officially recognized religion is technically illegal. It's just that we usually ignore that unless you make a nuisance of yourself. But small and unrecognized faiths do exist in a legal limbo.
This is by design, since this allows us to legally crack down on them when the need arises (such as them preaching idiotic things like selling your soul to the Abyss or that somebody else then Viserys should rule the planet).
This is by design, since this allows us to legally crack down on them when the need arises (such as them preaching idiotic things like selling your soul to the Abyss or that somebody else then Viserys should rule the planet).
- Location
- United States
That would be the Drunken God's religion. They are effectively ignored by the Imperium so long as they don't break any laws, but they're not getting endorsed by us after how easily their religion was infiltrated and turned into a problem for the Inquisition.
- Location
- France
Approving them outright might look bad though. It could remind our allies of the Sultan, and make other faiths less supportive of us (if they believe we intend to set ourselves up as a God-King down the line).
- Location
- United States
I'm confident we can convince our allies we're not interested in actual godhood and all the resulting restrictions. As genies they'll sympathize with those arguments. As for other religions, all that matters is that Viserys can in fact back up worship with cleric spells, so the bargain is fulfilled. If the religions don't like it, they should probably remember who exactly is endorsing them in the first place. Their discomfort isn't really a big deal here.
- Location
- Germany
So the dragon worshippers are in the clear as long as they:The Imperial Constitution said:
- build no temples
- have no organization
- do not preach or hold rites
Since they are likely a loose gaggle of people with no clear belief system, they should not be in violation of any of that.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
What we could do is use word-play to imply they are all faithfuls of the Imperial faith, which just includes "fealty to the Imperium and Emperor" as part of its doctrines. So sort of like we're the Head of Faith, as opposed to trying to ascend to Godhood... and less explicitly, that we see ourselves as above the Gods.
- Location
- France
I thought that the similarities might make it worse. Is he a God, or is he the messiah of another God? Who knows? And they're likely converting people from the same pool, so they'd be competing there (as much as a baby cult can compete with the biggest religion in the world, at least).
For a while the French used to kill Protestants and not Muslims, because the Muslims were wrongheaded foreigners with a foreign faith (whatever, they'll go to hell and that's their problem) while the Protestants were a growing splinter faction with a doctrine that often looked quite similar but that spat in the face of Church hierarchy and was just different enough to drive Catholics crazy.
This was centuries ago during the wars of religion, of course, but it was a thing. I wonder if the same sort of enmity could appear here, especially if the Dragon cultists recruit among Rhllorites who think we're Azor Ahai.
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- Location
- United States
I don't think the same problems are going to crop up. It boils down to revering Viserys as the emperor and defender of the Realm. If the R'hllorists insist we're their savior, Viserys' worshipers definitely won't complain. That's just confirmation that their emperor is awesome. Even other religions love him.
There is actually quite a bit of crossover between the people who think Viserys is Azor Ahai and the people who think he should be worshiped in his own right.
- Location
- Germany
Well, Clerics pray for their spells though and the Mythic ability is pretty clear that you are treated as a deity for the purpose of people getting spells from you. Obviously that isn't full-scale prayer and in deities, the act of granting spells is likely analogous to an autonomous body function like breathing, but still.
It's a bit of an edge-case.
Vote closed
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
So I wonder what this cult will end being like. t's hard for it to be considered a cult of personality when most of what you can infer from an icon given religious weight would be reading from their own personal tendencies, which is loyalty above all and martial skill.
Maybe a faction in the Legion will form called the Oathbound, emulating Ser Richard's martial excellence and loyalty? I bet he has the most hero worship in the 1st Legion since he shows up in their unit records as one of their first instructors.
Part MMMDCLII: Rumors and Reports of Westeros Part One
Rumors and Reports of Westeros Part One
Twenty Ninth Day of the Second Month 294 AC
Crownlands
Crackclaw Cutthroats: King's Landing's control over Crackclaw Point has grown ever more tenuous of late. Where two years ago it was only the tax collectors who were unsafe on the roads these days even an armsman in Baratheon livery can expect to pass through those twisting pine guarded roads as though in enemy land. More troubling is the fact that several of the more ambitious fishermen of the Point have been trying their hand at piracy against the ships of Crownlander Houses known to be loyal to Robert Baratheon, often flying the three-headed dragon to intimidate their prey into striking sail under supposed thereat of sorcery.
While Lord Brune and the others have been doing their best to curb such 'enterprising spirit', they are struggling against the sheer weight of popular sentiment and worse, the lure of easy gold. He writes in earnest: 'I can't rightly hang smallfolk for being traitors to the Usurper. I fined some and sent the boldest to Sorcerer's Deep to make honest sailors out of them. May the day come soon when we Pointsmen no longer have to keep our banners furled.'
Cutting a Thread: The Faceless you set to guard lord Monford Velaryon have proven their worth. A pair of shadow-weaving assassins from the deeper reaches of the Plane of Earth were captured while attempting to poison the Lord and Lady of Driftmark in full court after subtler approaches proved fruitless.
When questioned the assassins admitted to having been hired by the queen with the aid of the Master of Coin. That either of them has access to the resources of other Spheres is an unpleasant realization. The assassins suspected that 'the Hollow One', as they called Baelish, was attempting to blackmail the queen by sating her lust for revenge, though they do not know what other plans may have been put into motion once the Velaryons had been killed or forced to flight.
Most unpleasantly both assassins claimed to have personally traded in drow goods, confirming that there is still some polity of that kindred to make deals with in the Deep Earth.
Riverlands
A Troubled Trout: With the death of his brother Hoster Tully left court and returned to Riverrun once more. He has begun to quietly inquire among his bannermen as to which may be amenable to acting in the Vale's internal conflict. In an attempt to bind the lords together in common cause, Tytos Blackwood writes and for a wonder Lord Braken actually agrees. While even the attempt points at a weakening of royal power that you can only applaud in the days running up to the invasion you do not need the instability in the Vale overflowing into the Riverlands. Thankfully you should have enough leverage among the lords there to keep Hoster from marching to his daughter's aid.
The Flayed Man over the Bridge Passing: While you cannot say you are surprised that Roose Bolton and Walder Frey found common ground you are surprised it takes the form of trading in undead soldiers to help Black Walder in far off Omber. Commendable initiative just the same, very much in the spirit of what bannermen are supposed to be doing to preserve royal resources.
The North
Grasping Power: Though five year old Arya Stark is no longer as important to the plans of the Old Gods as she had been when she was first invested with a kinship of the Green it is still notable that she attained mastery over the First Circle of spells and other skills of a novice druid in full. Dany jests that she is jealous of the girl's precociousness. Bloodraven is simply relieved to have a proper mediator through whitch to speak to Eddard Stark as necessary. Unlike dreams and portents, having one's youngest daughter experience a divine visitation can be rather harder to ignore.
Marsh Watch: For the first time in living memory the people of the Neck are setting out north to trade in large number. It seems they have been slowly cultivating arcane reagents as much as friendships with the local fey for years in the hopes of leveraging a stronger and more respected position in the North and beyond.
OOC: Since it was the Faceless that caught the assassins in Driftmark they are keeping the personal loot for their own use. They are also one of the few other organizations that consider bodies to be part of the loot.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
We control most of the Riverlands... I guess you mean "enough leverage to make that not blindingly obvious"?
Pretty much yeah.