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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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reade said:
Yeah I guess I'm not really sure I get the current method... Just as I'm reading over parts of the story again I can't help but have a voice in the back of my head thinking it's a little bit silly why would you have cold misty domain and stand on top of a fire turtle. Yrsilla seems to approach most things quite practically. Sun qi doesn't like moon qi. Water puts out fire. Freezing shit above magma should be difficult!

Is there an actual method of how this is supposed to work???
Or is it impractical?
If it is impractical what can be done?
Or has this been explained and I missed it?

So I was throwing out ideas for how to make it work I guess...
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First of all Sun Qi is irrelevant, Zhengui doesn't use and Sun qi. Just Fire and Wood. Secondly, if you back to when we were fighting with Gu Xulian to defend the towns, you'll see that our domains and abilities didn't cancel each other out despite being Icy and Fiery. Our domains actually worked well together I believe. Its because of our connection to her. Domains are experssions of the soul, of ourselves. You'll see in LQ's domain-based abilities that she buffs and protects the people closest to her. That's not the way every domain works but the point is, you shouldn't be following the laws of physics here. physics are completely subjective. Its more like metaphysical laws of the soul...
 
Valmond said:
And if we manage to pretend hard enough, world will not only become flat, it will always have been. :V
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Weakens the story as a whole though. Ignore logic 'fire is wet'. Might as well let LQ use Zhengui's lava to freeze things. Sort of need to draw a line somewhere else it just detracts from the story.
 
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[X] To appeal to military pragmatism. If their enemies were divided there was no need to unite them. (+Wang, +Jia approval, -Meng approval)
 
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Adhoc vote count started by EternalObserver on Aug 16, 2020 at 1:53 PM, finished with 289 posts and 132 votes.
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about synergy between zhengui and lin qi. hot and cold temperature don't necessarily mix together to form lukewarm. we're talking about ground based heat and air based cold with an intersection of raging winds due to the difference in temperature. if ling qi can channel the hot air caused by zhengui's domain she can cause tornadoes and shit for a more caotic battlefields, so that not only the mist will remain, it will devastate. not only that, for enemies, going from sudden cold to raging heat can be more damaging than simply constant cold or heat. add to that techniques the lessen the interference due to the contrasting nature of the domains and the neutral raging areas are either more tame or more harmful.
 
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[X] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)
 
reade said:
Weakens the story as a whole though. Ignore logic 'fire is wet'. Might as well let LQ use Zhengui's lava to freeze things. Sort of need to draw a line somewhere else it just detracts from the story.
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I bet there is an art for that.
Leech the heat to power the magma or something.
Ultimately, the story is about people, not powers or logical power levels.
We knew from the start that cultivators are bullshit, cultivators warp the world around them, even Ling Qi, at green, was already describe as a god by her own mother.
But the fact that we can ignore physics does not matter, because so can everyone else that matters, what is important is how much better, or creative, we are at ignoring physics.
Story has it's own internal logic, it's just that "fire melts ice" is not a firm fact according to it, but instead a gentle suggestion we, as small gods, can ignore at times unless someone stronger is disagreeing with us over it.
 
Lena27 said:
First of all Sun Qi is irrelevant, Zhengui doesn't use and Sun qi. Just Fire and Wood. Secondly, if you back to when we were fighting with Gu Xulian to defend the towns, you'll see that our domains and abilities didn't cancel each other out despite being Icy and Fiery. Our domains actually worked well together I believe. Its because of our connection to her. Domains are experssions of the soul, of ourselves. You'll see in LQ's domain-based abilities that she buffs and protects the people closest to her. That's not the way every domain works but the point is, you shouldn't be following the laws of physics here. physics are completely subjective. Its more like metaphysical laws of the soul...
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Well sun qi isn't irrelevant LQ was effected badly by it being in her meridians Because of her alignment to moon qi.
And that's a terrible fight too use in that example they fought almost completely independent.

But generally it costs qi to get the desired effect right? Yet it somehow doesn't cost qi to keep freezing shit on top of lava It just doesn't go with the other logic being used. If physics is completely subjective why do other cultivators bother with compatible spirits?
 
reade said:
Well sun qi isn't irrelevant LQ was effected badly by it being in her meridians Because of her alignment to moon qi.
And that's a terrible fight too use in that example they fought almost completely independent.

But generally it costs qi to get the desired effect right? Yet it somehow doesn't cost qi to keep freezing shit on top of lava It just doesn't go with the other logic being used. If physics is completely subjective why do other cultivators bother with compatible spirits?
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it might be just that the neutral area is smaller than you'd notice during the fight. I don't think zhengui's qi can hurt ling qi since they're allied. as for why cultivators choose compatible spirits, I believe it's more because the spirits actually represent the concept they're fighting with. cultivators are also heavily influenced by it. so it basically a matter of personal compatibility. a cold indifferent person might not make it with a very aggressive heat based spirit. as I've mentioned before, neutral areas (the one's between the lava and the mist) would be more caotic and therefor might be actually more useful. I bet there are techniques to take advantage of differences in air temperature to create whirlwinds and tornadoes so that the hot air won't cause a general lukewarm temperature.
 
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Valmond said:
Story has it's own internal logic, it's just that "fire melts ice" is not a firm fact according to it, but instead a gentle suggestion we, as small gods, can ignore at times unless someone stronger is disagreeing with us over it.
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We could absolutely go all "frozen flame and burning ice" if we wanted to.

I don't think we do, or we'd have picked up Coldstar Blade Foundations - it's an obvious path into that kind of thing - but the option's open.
 
reade said:
Well sun qi isn't irrelevant LQ was effected badly by it being in her meridians Because of her alignment to moon qi.
And that's a terrible fight too use in that example they fought almost completely independent.

But generally it costs qi to get the desired effect right? Yet it somehow doesn't cost qi to keep freezing shit on top of lava It just doesn't go with the other logic being used. If physics is completely subjective why do other cultivators bother with compatible spirits?
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its irrelevant to the topic of Zhengui's synergy with us because he doesn't cultivate Sun qi. Also question--why did you say that we don't have Cold aligned meridians before? We totally do.
yrsillar said:
Total: 50 (+3 locked meridians)
Next xp cost: 54

Attuned:
Head: 8 (3x HDW, 1x RME, 3x MoSS, 1x blank)
Lung: 9 (2x PLR, 3x FSS, 1x RME, 2x BKSD, 1x blank)
Spine: 10 (1x LFWT, 3x SNR, 3x WHR, 2x UGM, 1x blank)
Heart: 8 (2x SNR, 2x HDW, 1x WHR, 2x BKSD, 1x MoSS)
Arm: 7 (2x FSS, 2x ENM, 2x UGM, 1x blank)
Leg: 8 (1x LFWT, 4x PLR, 3x ENM)

Equipped:
LFWT2 (Spine x2[-1], Leg x3[-2]) - 1 dark 4 wind
PLR7 (Lung x2, Leg x4) - 4 moon 2 dream
SNR3 (Spine x3, Heart x2) - 3 dark 2 lake
FSS6 (Lung x3, Arm x2) - 3 dark 2 cold
HDW5 (Head x3, Heart x2) - 2 music 3 wind
RME2 (Head x3[-2], Lung x2[-1]) - 3 water 2 moon
WHR1 (Spine x3, Heart x1) - 2 music 1 cold 1 fire
ENM5 (Arm x2, Leg x3) - 3 dark 2 wind
BKSD1 (Lung x2, Heart x2) - 1 dark 1 wood 2 music
UGM2 (Spine x2, Arm x2) - 2 cold 1 music 1 water
MoSS1 (Head x3, Heart x1) - 4 music

Domain Locked (FVM): Lung x2, Heart x1 - 1 water 3 dark 1 music

Alternate:
PMR1 (Head x4) - 2 moon 2 wind
MSS2 (Head x3, Heart x1) - 2 dark 2 moon
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thkiw said:
it might be just that the neutral area is smaller than you'd notice during the fight. I don't think zhengui's qi can hurt ling qi since they're allied. as for why cultivators choose compatible spirits, I believe it's more because the spirits actually represent the concept they're fighting with. cultivators are also heavily influenced by it. so it basically a matter of personal compatibility. a cold indifferent person might not make it with a very aggressive heat based spirit. as I've mentioned before, neutral areas (the one's between the lava and the mist) would be more caotic and therefor might be actually more useful. I bet there are techniques to take advantage of differences in air temperature to create whirlwinds and tornadoes so that the hot air won't cause a general lukewarm temperature.
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Which would be a constructive use of a big potent spirit beast! What I was suggesting originally although I was thinking more ash theme. But wind/fire or tornado craziness would be cool as well!
 
reade said:
Which would be a constructive use of a big potent spirit beast! What I was suggesting originally although I was thinking more ash theme. But wind/fire or tornado craziness would be cool as well!
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And maybe one day we shall.
But we don't have art for that, and archive crawls take time, which we are short on.
Maybe if/when we are doing archive crawling, or are testing how to make our own arts, but not right now.
 
reade said:
But generally it costs qi to get the desired effect right? Yet it somehow doesn't cost qi to keep freezing shit on top of lava It just doesn't go with the other logic being used. If physics is completely subjective why do other cultivators bother with compatible spirits?
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Compatible spirits provide some ability to more easily cultivate specific elements, which can make cultivation more efficient and easier for individuals. Furthermore, a compatible spirit can also provide inspiration for art modification and development, like how Sixiang helped us with the cultivation of PLR.
 
[] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)

This may be a bit of a stupid question, but it is one I want to ask before committing to culture: Do the ice-tribe people actually have a civilization? If so, how developed is it and does Ling Qi know about it or does the knowledge come from meta knowledge?

I want to make sure because it would feel weird to me to argue culture as the basis if Ling Qi doesn't have this knowledge. Though that's a symptom of my dislike for meta voting more than anything.
 
Apocalyptic Loon said:
[] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)

This may be a bit of a stupid question, but it is one I want to ask before committing to culture: Do the ice-tribe people actually have a civilization? If so, how developed is it and does Ling Qi know about it or does the knowledge come from meta knowledge?

I want to make sure because it would feel weird to me to argue culture as the basis if Ling Qi doesn't have this knowledge. Though that's a symptom of my dislike for meta voting more than anything.
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All she really knows is that they speak a weird dialect of hill tribe speech, the ice lady had a very nicely made dress, they seemed to be offering her sanctuary and they seemed to be interested in Zeqing (and therefore Qi). Qi has also read about tribes that worshipped spirits like Zeqing in the burning library.
 
Apocalyptic Loon said:
[] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)

This may be a bit of a stupid question, but it is one I want to ask before committing to culture: Do the ice-tribe people actually have a civilization? If so, how developed is it and does Ling Qi know about it or does the knowledge come from meta knowledge?

I want to make sure because it would feel weird to me to argue culture as the basis if Ling Qi doesn't have this knowledge. Though that's a symptom of my dislike for meta voting more than anything.
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She's guessing that they have more what Empire would consider culture and civilization than what is considered "barbarian" b/c 1) the woman looked nothing like the barbs in terms of dress. She had well cut clothing that actually made her look kinda regal and elegant. 2) the woman's language actually had elements of the Hills Tribe dialect (which is now a part of the Empire), not the Cloud Tribes aka our enemies.
Elsecaller said:
All she really knows is that they speak a weird dialect of hill tribe speech, the ice lady had a very nicely made dress, they seemed to be offering her sanctuary and they seemed to be interested in Zeqing (and therefore Qi). Qi has also read about tribes that worshipped spirits like Zeqing in the burning library.
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Also dont forget Hanyi. She was interested in Hanyi who I think is being considered as a descendent of the Ice people. Bc u know, the ice people are spiritblooded people who come from the Ice spirits up north. Or so its implied.
 
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Apocalyptic Loon said:
This may be a bit of a stupid question, but it is one I want to ask before committing to culture: Do the ice-tribe people actually have a civilization? If so, how developed is it and does Ling Qi know about it or does the knowledge come from meta knowledge?

I want to make sure because it would feel weird to me to argue culture as the basis if Ling Qi doesn't have this knowledge. Though that's a symptom of my dislike for meta voting more than anything.
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It certainly seems like they do, but then attempting to define civilization has always been a tricky business fraught with difficulties. However, it seems like they have some significant experience in metalwork, given the cruel iron scepter that the Ice-lady held, which seemed very potent. This indicates a level of specialization where they can have metalworkers and artisans capable of crafting such items of power from the materials around them.

Secondly
yrsillar said:
She wore a dress of pale blue and white. It was made of fur like the other barbarians, but seemed oddly well cut and… elegant, for lack of a better word, almost like imperial tailor work.
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Is the state of her clothing. Again, the quality of the cut and the seeming effort at tailoring the dress points to the ability to specialize in a population. However, this points to specialization in a completely different field than metalwork. This points that wherever the Ice-lady comes from has the ability not only to have a specialized population but have the resources to have multiple specialties. This indicates some framework or infrastructure that allows people to outsource the ability to gather food and other survival supplies in exchange for other work-intensive products that are not immediately useful for survival.

The third aspect is the language. A variant of the Hill Tribes language points to at least common ancestry with the Hill Tribes, or those individuals who now form the southern edge of the Empire and, as part of the empire, are part of a civilization. It would not be unfeasible, then, to argue then that based on the common ancestry of our own people that they have also risen up and developed themselves to the point of civilization, whatever that point may actually be.
 
[X] To appeal to culture. She spoke a variant of the hill tribe tongue, and bore other markers of civilization. Better to bring into the fold as the Weilu and the Xi once did. (+Meng, +Luo approval, -Diao approval)

Was first drawn to military pragmatism, but honestly have been swayed by some of the arguments here. This is as much about us and our courtly debut as it is about the immediate military situation. These old monsters don't need us to tell them how to Divide and Conquer.
 
Elsecaller said:
All she really knows is that they speak a weird dialect of hill tribe speech, the ice lady had a very nicely made dress, they seemed to be offering her sanctuary and they seemed to be interested in Zeqing (and therefore Qi). Qi has also read about tribes that worshipped spirits like Zeqing in the burning library.
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Lena27 said:
She's guessing that they have more what Empire would consider culture and civilization than what is considered "barbarian" b/c 1) the woman looked nothing like the barbs in terms of dress. She had well cut clothing that actually made her look kinda regal and elegant. 2) the woman's language actually had elements of the Hills Tribe dialect (which is now a part of the Empire), not the Cloud Tribes aka our enemies.
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Okay, I'm going to have to vote military over culture then. IMO that just isn't enough knowledge to go in front of the most important court in the province for the first time and use some (from her perspective) large leaps of logic to argue her case. It's a shame, I like the culture more from a meta standpoint, but the evidence she is putting forward is pretty circumstantial (literally based entirely on seeing one person). Not that I think Yrs would do this, but the culture argument is easily shot down by someone simply asking her if she's sure the inferences she's made apply to the rest of the culture as well.

[X] To appeal to military pragmatism. If their enemies were divided there was no need to unite them. (+Wang, +Jia approval, -Meng approval)

Edit: The post I missed from Thor's Twin helps somewhat, but it's still not enough IC knowledge for me to feel good about Ling Qi using it as an argument.
 
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