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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Duesal said:
It's more that this wasn't what was advertised. The fact that concentration checks can fail at all despite the Mythic Ability explicitly stating otherwise makes me angry. I feel more than a little cheated.
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While I can relate, doesn't Divine Bullshit™ beat pretty much everything but other Diving Bullshit™, RaW?
I kinda assumed it by default that a Deity actually trying and spending power to fuck us over could reasonably do it, Mythic or not.
 
Crake said:
Wtf? @DragonParadox isn't it Mythic fiat-backed that Viserys can't lose concentration for 8th circle spells?
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Duesal said:
It's more that this wasn't what was advertised. The fact that concentration checks can fail at all despite the Mythic Ability explicitly stating otherwise makes me angry. I feel more than a little cheated.
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OK I see there is some objection to this and I can't claim it's not legitimate. I'm stretching rules on the fly here. If you guys think it's unfair I can find something else for the god to do with his intervention.

We are all learning as we go along and I do not want to be the sort of GM who deals in fiats when going beyond the usual bounds of the game

Editing.
 
DragonParadox said:
OK I see there is some objection to this and I can't claim it's not legitimate. I'm stretching rules on the fly here. If you guys think it's unfair I can find something else for the god to do with his intervention.

We are all learning as we go along and I do not want to be the sort of GM who deals in fiats when going beyond the usual bounds of the game

Editing.
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:anger:
 
I don't think it's that bad, especially since we didn't spend mythic power to boost that spell. The active effort of a god can reasonably suppress a passive effect, and I'm pretty sure this wasn't something just requesting a god to act remotely. I'd give it good odds of being something like a Charnel God that is both present and focusing all of it's attention on Viserys. As long as it took up actual resources to do instead of being something it can whip out off the cuff this isn't a huge game changer.

On the battle itself, are we going to stay or go? I'd prefer to keep trying, since I'm not enthused about leaving behind bodies for these fuckers to play with, but if we return quickly enough and leave some distractions it could work.

Etheric Shards to cover the place with invisible interdimensional razor blades, and maybe a few other things to sow confusion.

A Threnodic Damnation of Memory could be all kinds of fun, assuming that we cast it as a bard spell instead of a psychic one anyway. We could target their god, possibly their battle plan or command structure depending on how they're organized, and cause some fantastic chaos.
 
egoo said:
While I can relate, doesn't Divine Bullshit™ beat pretty much everything but other Diving Bullshit™, RaW?
I kinda assumed it by default that a Deity actually trying and spending power to fuck us over could reasonably do it, Mythic or not.
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I literally could not give a shit.

Mythic abilities are supposed to be over the top, they are the pinnacle of our power and progress. If they ain't shit, they ain't shit. Period.
 
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I'm totally fine with Mythic Concentration giving us a chance against Divine intervention.

Because the divine intervention could have been murdering our companions. Instead, it slapped Viserys and made him lose a round.

I'm not mad about that.
 
If this particular god-creature is specced into counter magic shit, it could just counterspell for the same effect right? So we could move forward with the board as it stands instead of waiting for the new ending of the last chapter.
 
I would rather have to deal with the enemy having shiny stuff and OP PLZ NERF powers than our own OP LEET HAX being slapped down.
 
As long as breaking through the mythic ability comes at a real coat to the diety, I'm fine with it. It's not any different than searing bypassing fire immunity, or a god beating the antidivination part of mind blank.
 
egoo said:
:anger:
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Sorry if this feels like me giving you guys a free ride, I know that can be an issue with my writing, but I feel in quest writing it is important to be fair and in that last update I took a chance on what going beyond the rules would be and people called me out on changing the rules mid-game. that is not fair, so I'll try to up the chalange somewhere else. This is not me saying 'you can bargain all the bad things away' but 'when I go beyond the rules in a way you guys feel to be unfair feel free to bring it up for debate'
 
DragonParadox said:
Sorry if this feels like me giving you guys a free ride, I know that can be an issue with my writing, but I feel in quest writing it is important to be fair and in that last update I took a chance on what going beyond the rules would be and people called me out on changing the rules mid-game. that is not fair, so I'll try to up the chalange somewhere else. This is not me saying 'you can bargain all the bad things away' but 'when I go beyond the rules in a way you guys feel to be unfair feel free to bring it up for debate'
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The Divine intervention could have come in the form of a Counterspell rather than an attack which broke Viserys' concentration, as @BronzeTongue suggested. It amounts to the same thing.
 
This might need to change depending on how the chapter edits go, but here's what I have for now.

[X] Plan Maximum Effort
-[X] Viserys casts Ancestral Awakening as a Swift Action to learn the Sudden Empower feat, then casts a Maximized Empowered Mythic Shadow of the Doom spell augmented using two Mythic Power (432 Searing Fire damage, plus 12 points of Ability Damage to Strength & Dexterity), targeting the eight remaining creatures and directing the remaining fourteen 20-foot cubes to target any enemy that looks important, especially priests, sorcerers, and commanders, along with other large war beasts (hereafter referred to as "important looking enemies" in the rest of the plan).
-[X] Malarys casts a Miracle spell to Dispel the black rain and unnatural clouds, potentially benefiting from his +4 bonus to Dispelling (for a caster level of 25th).
-[X] Tyene targets the largest group of important looking enemies with another Sunburst spell, Dany does the same using Inspired Spell, and Vee drops an Earthquake in the same area. They each use their Rings of Spell-Battle to Counterspell or Alter Fortune as they deem necessary, insuring the success of Viserys and Malarys' spells while hindering the enemies. Dany uses her Battlemagic Perception buff as a Free Action to Counterspell the most dangerous seeming spell immediately.
-[X] All 30 Heralds use their Fireball SLAs to target important looking enemies.
-[X] Benerro, Melisandre, and everyone else able to attack at long range are welcome to contribute as well, with whatever spells they feel most appropriate for slaying Undead monsters.
-[X] The Moonchasers, Wyverns, and Manticores each unleash a spread of Explosive Beetle Bombs (20d6 Piercing & Bludgeoning damage in a 40ft radius) targeting important looking enemies, along with a full salvo of Steam Cannon rounds (10d10+4 damage per shot).
--[X] The Moonchasers will use their Brilliant Barrier projectors and anyone else flying in the formation who has a Brilliant Barrier charm will activate them as Immediate Action to block the breath weapons used by the creatures, if they are within range to do so.
-[X] We will determine how to proceed depending on how many survive our opening salvo.
 
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I could already tell my salt was going to cause counter-salt, but I didn't want the precedent being set.

I think there should be a little give and take, rather than what the obstacles we encounter always taking the form of us running into a brick wall with a flat 'nope'.

It is cooler if the enemy has some of the same problems we do, this guy has firepower and it is going to come next turn. What do we do to deal with that?

We are constantly told we can't just use Gods as a crutch, I didn't complain when Zathir repeatedly failed to do anything to the storms of note, because narratively it makes sense. Gods can't solve everything... unless it is used against us afuckingparrently.

No, not this time.
 
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We shouldn't get too upset over this I think; instead we should be following imperial tradition and looking for the best way to make a profit and perform SCIENCE on our new divine buddy.

Personally I want to start with casting Divine Interdiction on it's avatar to see what happens. Probably nothing, but technically that spell would effect even high level clerics who fail the save, so I'm betting it'd really piss it off. :V

So what are the most viscerally offensive things we can do to this sad shard of a deity before we grind up into fungus forge reagents or feed it to a better god?
 
Crake said:
I could already tell my salt was going to cause counter-salt, but I didn't want the precedent being set.
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I don't think we should think of the discussion we just had a 'salt'. It's worth remembering that we are all both playing a game and telling a collaborative story. If you guys see an issue with the way I'm running things then I want you to point them out just as much as I want typos pointed out. There is no reason for the process to be adversarial and indeed every reason not to be.

We are all here to have fun.

There are enough other reasons to be upset out in the world especially now.
 
Crake said:
I could already tell my salt was going to cause counter-salt, but I didn't want the precedent being set.

I think there should be a little give and take, rather than what the obstacles we encounter always taking the form of us running into a brick wall with a flat 'nope'.

It is cooler if the enemy has some of the same problems we do, this guy has firepower and it is going to come next turn. What do we do to deal with that?

We are constantly told we can't just use Gods as a crutch, I didn't complain when Zathir repeatedly failed to do anything to the storms of note, because narratively it makes sense. Gods can't solve everything... unless it is used against us afuckingparrently.

No, not this time.
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Bear in mind that this was one single failure, it didn't render all our attack useless. Viserys lost an action, the God did too.

There would have been way more salt if the god had targetted squishy Lya, for example.
 
Artemis1992 said:
If it's an avatar that might do something, but if it is all that remains of the dead god, then it can't be cut off from itself.
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I figured, but I think the affront to its dignity would almost be worth it.

@Goldfish would having Lya cast Spellscar around important targets as we SotD them be worth it? Unless I'm reading the spell incorrectly that would make our attack and their responses trigger primal magic events within the areas effected by the spell. The only thing better than a magical nuke is being forced to juggle another one to try and survive.
 
Plan updated to take into account DP's edits to the chapter. The first SotD hit, but there are a handful of the big monsters left and plenty of other enemies. Let's ruin their day.

[X] Plan Maximum Effort
-[X] Viserys casts a Maximized Mythic Shadow of the Doom spell augmented using two Mythic Power (298 Searing Fire damage, plus 8 points of Ability Damage to Strength & Dexterity), targeting the eight remaining creatures and directing the remaining fourteen 20-foot cubes to target any enemy that looks important, especially priests, sorcerers, and commanders, along with other large war beasts (hereafter referred to as "important looking enemies" in the rest of the plan).
-[X] Malarys casts a Miracle spell to Dispel the black rain and unnatural clouds, potentially benefiting from his +4 bonus to Dispelling (for a caster level of 25th).
-[X] Tyene targets the largest group of important looking enemies with another Sunburst spell, Dany does the same using Inspired Spell, and Vee drops an Earthquake in the same area. They each use their Rings of Spell-Battle to Counterspell or Alter Fortune as they deem necessary, insuring the success of Viserys and Malarys' spells while hindering the enemies. Dany uses her Battlemagic Perception buff as a Free Action to Counterspell the most dangerous seeming spell immediately.
-[X] All 30 Heralds use their Fireball SLAs to target important looking enemies.
-[X] Benerro, Melisandre, and everyone else able to attack at long range are welcome to contribute as well, with whatever spells they feel most appropriate for slaying Undead monsters.
-[X] The Moonchasers, Wyverns, and Manticores each unleash a spread of Explosive Beetle Bombs (20d6 Piercing & Bludgeoning damage in a 40ft radius) targeting important looking enemies, along with a full salvo of Steam Cannon rounds (10d10+4 damage per shot).
--[X] The Moonchasers will use their Brilliant Barrier projectors and anyone else flying in the formation who has a Brilliant Barrier charm will activate them as Immediate Action to block the breath weapons used by the creatures, if they are within range to do so.
-[X] We will determine how to proceed depending on how many survive our next salvo.
 
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Tomcost said:
Bear in mind that this was one single failure, it didn't render all our attack useless. Viserys lost an action, the God did too.

There would have been way more salt if the god had targetted squishy Lya, for example.
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I still would have accepted it, so really that all just comes down to differing perspectives. I think mechanical choices have a similar importance to narrative ones, especially when Mythic related choices are kind of one-and-the-same kind of choices.

If those choices become meaningless, why make any choices?

Yes, accepting death or harm to someone you care about is a narrative conflict, or at least a flash point.

On the other hand, throughout most of the story after we started bargaining with Gods on a regular basis, DP repeatedly hammered home "guys, Gods can't solve everything", "Guys, Gods are not vending machines", "Guys, Gods don't work that way".

If these are things we "take as given" and have to accept, then why does it always seem like none of those things ever actually fucking matter when the enemy tries to use them against us?

I don't think my perspective here is all that warped. I am trying to come from a rational place here. I did not speak a peep at all about Zathir basically being irrelevant because it makes sense. I spoke up about Viserys' big moment in the last update being a big dud, because it doesn't make sense.

I don't think I'm in the wrong here.
 
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