Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
If it means noting to you either way, I for one am invested in getting the +20 bonus on the Study: Coin and AV enchanting actions, so please vote for plans that do not have both those in them. I'm too tired to come up with a good argument, except the +20 to the coin fells obvious enough, it's one of the only Investigate Divinity actions of it's type that anyone has had the opportunity to do with a god of the Empire.

For the AV, it could be amazing, it could be useless, it could be weird but funny. But I for one hope it will be useful, and that +20 could mean all the difference if it has the potential to be useful so in the first place.
 
Soil, rather than solid rock. That's why the Anvil countermeasure worked so well.
Fair enough, but that still wouldn't explain how Birdmuncha somehow tunneled so far, so quickly, entirely on his own, that not even dwarves or Mathilde could find him...despite it literally being a small tunnel through solid rock. Meaning that, unless he somehow stumbled upon a new chunk of Underway that somehow hadn't been found, all by sheer dumb luck (which is utterly absurd, considering just how deep they already were), and that somehow wasn't a dead end...yeah. Not to mention the fact that he'd be using tiny pickaxes meant for orcs a lot smaller than him, and that he'd have to create a tunnel big enough for him (who's really fucking big even to orcs) to swing pickaxes around in.

Not to mention it was an orc warboss who chose to personally run away from a fight.
 
EDIT: I am not longer voting for this plan, I've overwritten my vote with this one, primarily as Anti-Chaos training doesn't count as a Job action.
So this is an oops on my part.
I'd hoped the Anti-Chaos class was broad enough to help us in 'coming up with the uncoventional', as Belegar asked us to do. With that denied, I think I have to change my vote to a plan that discharges our job responsibilities.

[X] Plan Fulfilling Obligations
[x] Plan Keep It Classy But Do the Job

And a revised plan, incorporating the new option to study the Lighting Mechanism with Adela, which uses the 350 personal gold just spent on engineering books, and synergises with her Johann lessons. Also EIC ciphers. OpSec is important.

Second Job action is seeing if we can make an advance booking for good weather with the Ice Witches, and nail down the departure date. Also meeting them will be cool.

[X] Plan Do you want to meet an Icewitch?
-[x] Contains one Overwork action
-[x] MAX: Study an artefact: Captured Clan Moulder devices (as yet uninspected)
-[X] JOHANN: Have him teach Adela what he knows of engineering.
-[x] DUCK: Study an artefact with one of the Journeymen: Lighting mechanism, stolen from Clan Skryre with Adela
-[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander introduce a series of ciphers to the EIC to allow it to communicate internally in much greater security.
-[x] SERENITY: Write a paper: The We book (1/2)
-[x] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[x] Collate useful information on the northernmost Dark Lands from Qrech and Lady Magister Grey. (Overwork)
-[x] Try to contact the Ice Witches of Kislev in the hopes they can provide clement weather for the Expedition.
-[x] Attend classes at the Grey College:
--[x] Anti-Chaos Training
--[x] Runes and Runecraft
-[x] Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin
--[x] COIN: The Gambler

[x] Plan Keep It Classy
-[x] Contains one Overwork action
-[x] MAX: Study an artefact: Captured Clan Moulder devices (as yet uninspected)
-[x] JOHANN: Have him teach Adela what he knows of engineering.
-[x] DUCK: Magical target-shooting is rough on normal targets. Set up a specialized target range for your ducklings, and for any other wizards at Eight Peaks.
-[x] EIC: Start hiring handlers who can then start hiring informers and begin to collect non-public information.
-[x] SERENITY: Write a paper: The We book (1/2)
-[x] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[x] Collate useful information on the northernmost Dark Lands from Qrech and Lady Magister Grey.
-[x] Attend classes at the Grey College:
--[x] Anti-Chaos Training
--[x] Runes and Runecraft
--[x] Enchanting
-[x] Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin
--[x] COIN: The Gambler

Heavy on the Enchantment?-skill-up, with intentions to apply this new knowledge to Enchantment-actions next turn- perhaps AV Study, Armour, and Staff. Get as good as we can this turn, then try and apply the knowledge once to better stuff next.
Also- at last see what Ranald's Coin study unlocks!

Long Term Project: The Coin! Boosted by the Coin! 🎲 I'm sure hopeful Ranald will be amused.
The Job is LM Grey and Qrech. Their info is already stale, unlike say scouting info or merchant info, which will be out of date in a couple years when the Expedition sets off
Tangential-to-job is the Anti-Chaos training, as it will hopefully help us know more about the dangers the Expedition will face and how to counter them.
Plus we're spending three half-actions managing subordinates in harmony with Karak interests, as per usual.
Johann/Adela to hopefully get her boot-strapped into productivity, as her Dawi engineering training seems to be on hold while the Okral is here.
Max on Moulder devices, because it's an unopened loot crate and he's done the Anatomy work.
Ducks- Target shooting because it's been around a long time, and maybe we're risking a Duckling having a bad public miscast until we do?
Serenity We Book action 1/2
Penthouse... I do want to upgrade the physical security, but there is at least one more useful Defensive tower we can build, so it can wait... I hope.
 
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[X] Plan Keep It Classy

Here's my effortpost about all the stuff in it:
  • Max should poke at the Clan Moulder devices, because he has a solid working knowledge of Moulder from the anatomy book at this point, and we don't even know what these things are. Figuring out what we even have in our inventory seems like the most useful first step.
  • Johann should tutor Adela because she's at loose ends at the moment and she might make a good candidate to include in the Skaven reverse-engineering project; we do have a joint-study artifact with her, after all.
  • If we're gearing up for an Expedition that some or all of our Ducklings might want to participate in, we should prioritize martial training, so it's target practice or melee, and this one seems better because it involves setting up lasting infrastructure that we'll benefit from in the future.
  • Right now the EIC's biggest issue is a potentially hostile actor on the canal project. The best answers to that are either better intelligence or the navy, and I think I prefer the intel (especially since, well, being a spymaster is the whole reason we kept our involvement in the EIC after we instilled good values into it).
  • We don't have many good paper options, so let's write the book on the We this year. They've been really into books lately, and I think they'd love reading a book about themselves from a not-We perspective.
  • Towers. Towers towers towers. Towers? Towers!
  • Qrech and LM Grey are unique contacts other people involved in the Expedition's planning will not have. Let's get any information we can from them. I think there was wide agreement on this one.
  • Ranald's Coin has been blessing us all the way. Now that AV is starting to pay dividends by helping the dwarves, we can put that on pause for a turn and take a look at our oldest and most annoying friend.
  • Finally, and giving the plan its name: it's back to school time! Before we go into high-level regions around Karag Dum ourself to scout, people in the thread wanted to improve our equipment, and before we craft those pieces we should make sure to max out our skills. Also, anti-Chaos training; we have an entire year to take it, but might as well get it done early so Algard doesn't make a scowly face.
This plan sets us up for a next turn in which we craft the better armor we've been talking about for a long time and the tricked-out dragonbone staff we've wanted ever since we kicked Alakazam's teeth in (possibly after investigating the properties AV might have in enchantment), then use that new gear to go scout out the Western Steppes or the outskirts of Karag Dum itself with significantly less fear.
 
[X] Plan: Chlof v2
- [X] MAX: Study an artefact: Captured Clan Moulder Devices
- [X] JOHANN: Study an artefact: Breathing apparatus, stolen from Clan Skryre.

- [X] DUCK: Magical target-shooting is rough on normal targets. Set up a specialized target range for your ducklings, and for any other wizards at Eight Peaks.
- [X] EIC: Have the Hochlander introduce a series of ciphers to the EIC to allow it to communicate internally in much greater security.

- [X] Attend anti-Chaos training at the Grey College.
- [X] Collate what useful information on the northernmost Dark Lands from Qrech and Lady Magister Grey.
- [X] [OVERWORK] Seek out merchants who have travelled the Skull Road to learn what they know of it.

- [X] Travel to the Grey College and attend lessons there: Runes and Runecraft
- [X] [COIN] Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin

- [X] [PENTHOUSE] Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
- [X] [SERENITY] Write a paper: 1/2 of We Book
- [X] Coin: Gambler

[X] Plan Fulfilling Obligations v2
[x] Plan Fulfill Obligations with Gretel
 
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Fair enough, but that still wouldn't explain how Birdmuncha somehow tunneled so far, so quickly, entirely on his own, that not even dwarves or Mathilde could find him...despite it literally being a small tunnel through solid rock. Meaning that, unless he somehow stumbled upon a new chunk of Underway that somehow hadn't been found, all by sheer dumb luck (which is utterly absurd, considering just how deep they already were), and that somehow wasn't a dead end...yeah. Not to mention the fact that he'd be using tiny pickaxes meant for orcs a lot smaller than him, and that he'd have to create a tunnel big enough for him (who's really fucking big even to orcs) to swing pickaxes around in.

You're making a whole bunch of assumptions about things that happened off-screen.

Not to mention it was an orc warboss who chose to personally run away from a fight.

You're missing an important lesson of Cunning: "If we runs for it we can come back for annuver go."
 
[X] Plan Classy Navy
-[X] Contains one Overwork action
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Captured Clan Moulder devices (as yet uninspected)
-[X] JOHANN: Have him teach Adela what he knows of engineering.
-[X] DUCK: Magical target-shooting is rough on normal targets. Set up a specialized target range for your ducklings, and for any other wizards at Eight Peaks.
-[X] EIC: Start building a paramilitary river navy to ensure the coming trade explosion doesn't lead to a similar explosion in riverine banditry.
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: The We book (1/2)
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] Collate useful information on the northernmost Dark Lands from Qrech and Lady Magister Grey.
-[X] Attend classes at the Grey College:
--[X] Anti-Chaos Training
--[X] Runes and Runecraft
--[X] Enchanting
-[X] Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin
--[X] COIN: The Gambler

The handlers and informers won't protect the EIC from disruption. That's not what it's for. It's for gathering information on people and events outside the EIC, which doesn't protect it from Marienburg. The navy does, so that's what we should do. The Empire needs the canals secured a lot more than it needs a bit more information on things outside the EIC.
 
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander introduce a series of ciphers to the EIC to allow it to communicate internally in much greater security.

It's probably a good idea to do this before we get handlers and spies. We don't want the information they gather to be intercepted and exploited by rivals.
I read that option as applying to the EIC in general, not to the EIC's intelligence division.
@BoneyM confirmation on this? Given that the handlers option predates the Hochlander and that... well, spies, I'd assume EIC handlers would have secure communications by default - but it pays to be certain.
 
[X] Plan Classy Navy

[X] Plan Classy Ciphers
-[X] Contains one Overwork action
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Captured Clan Moulder devices (as yet uninspected)
-[X] JOHANN: Have him teach Adela what he knows of engineering.
-[X] DUCK: Magical target-shooting is rough on normal targets. Set up a specialized target range for your ducklings, and for any other wizards at Eight Peaks.
-[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander introduce a series of ciphers to the EIC to allow it to communicate internally in much greater security.
-[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: The We book (1/2)
-[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] Collate useful information on the northernmost Dark Lands from Qrech and Lady Magister Grey.
-[X] Attend classes at the Grey College:
--[X] Anti-Chaos Training
--[X] Runes and Runecraft
--[X] Enchanting
-[X] Study an artefact: Ranald's Coin
--[X] COIN: The Gambler

A series of ciphers to protect internal communications would also protect the EIC from Marienburg, unlike the handlers and informers.
 
The Aqshy tower might get charge when it bathes in the sunlight?

If I recall the Aqshy tower is built over a chimney, so to charge it someone just needs to toss a few logs on a fire. I agree Azyr is more efficient in this case, but the red tower isn't useless here.

It's highly risky to learn and cast.

Less risky to learn now though.

Ok, I think we really need a consensus on what units are reasonable to take into the wastes. I've heard some people say that any wizards past Mathilde with her belt would be a bad idea? How seriously should I take this caution? I know very little about the mechanics of chaos caused miscasts.

Thinking that a unit of demigriffs for scouting in force, and a unit of light cavalry to screen the main train- thinking the dwarfs would handle artillery and infantry if we are forced to battle, so minimal units to prevent small fry from forcing the wagons to stop seems best?

Would also love to grab Arsinil. Like, this would be the *perfect* time to grab him as he wraps up in Kiesliv and pitch him on a smash-and-grab on an old dwarfhold, sponsored by the dwarves who might otherwise be concerned about people doing that sort of thing. Plus, getting his reaction on how well his memoirs sold in ulithian would be great.

The only human forces I'd be willing to consider would be the Griffon Legion of Kislev; they're (somewhat) local, synergize a little with the Ice Witches action, are generally predisposed to 'stomp on Chaos' to begin with and between their hussars and their horse archers should complement the dawi heavy infantry elements just fine.

Beyond that I want non-mutable troops as much as the dwarfs are willing to tolerate. Asarnil was mentioned, and he's a fine choice, but if the dwarfs are open to the idea ogres are mercenary enough to sign up (special attention would be needed for their rations; they eat just about anything but they've got a bit of an eating concern). Ogres work as shock heavy infantry that can run down heavy cavalry and are about as resistant to magic as most dwarfs.

Wizards, I'm willing to put out the word but I wouldn't go out of our way to drum up recruitment for this specific expedition; we'd probably benefit from Hysh casters along for the ride for their anti-daemon abilities, but they didn't cover themselves in glory last time they went on something like this and Mathilde probably isn't keen on them to begin with, so...eh. I'm leery about trying to empty the colleges for anyone just giddy about marching to Hell's front doorstep on a free ride, but I presume that there are those with legitimate reasons we'd approve of willing to tag along as part of an army instead of part of a small, irregularly armed group.

You can get mercenary cavalry from any human nation in the Old World bar Bretonnia.

You can also get mercenary cavalry from Bretonnia, so long as you don't call them mercenaries. They are instead 'guests' that you fete and flatter and give gifts to and they will occasionally go into battle for their friend as thanks and to demonstrate their superior grasp of chivalric virtues.

Regarding the plans, I'd like to see some more direct work towards accomplishing the task set before us. Belegar wasn't too keen on our last project, and I'd hate to put in one and a half actions on this one before telling him we were underperforming.

My thoughts right now are to use one overwork to get:


[ ] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his metalworking studies.
[ ] JOHANN: Have him teach Adela what he knows of engineering.
[ ] DUCK: Each of your three ducklings can fight in melee. Spar with them, and teach them what you can.
[ ] EIC: Have the Hochlander introduce a series of ciphers to the EIC to allow it to communicate internally in much greater security.
[ ] Collate useful information on the northernmost Dark Lands from Qrech and Lady Magister Grey.
[ ] Try to contact the Ice Witches of Kislev in the hopes they can provide clement weather for the Expedition.
[ ] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
[ ] Attend anti-Chaos training at the Grey College.

Anti-Chaos training is a mandatory we can count as a peripheral, but the task actions are collating information and talking to the ice witches. Collating the information doesn't seem too controversial, but my reason for the ice witches was that, while I doubt they'll say yes right now we may walk out with "in principal we'd love to but in practice we have X problem" which we can bring back to whomever is putting this expedition together and they can say 'ah, X is a problem we can help with. Let us perform Y action to scratch your back so you'll be able to scratch ours'.

Ducklings, I think we can and should teach them melee skills, even though everyone but Max is at least familiar with melee weapons. I want to ensure that they all can hold their own, and there's a slim chance this could help us develop a martial instruction trait that should help us developing a Grey College sword style down the road. Max I'm content to let him work on his studies but don't have a problem with putting him towards poking Moulder toys. Johann I was torn between Adela and gas mask, but I think waiting a turn or two on the gas mask is a thing that can happen. EIC, I understand everyone wants to get straight to hiring spies, but the ciphers will help keep secret information secret, which is something I'd want to have set up before starting with the actual spy business, personally.

The 'see through the pall of darkness' bit I am also okay with some other self-improvement action, provided it has direct applicability towards Karag Dum. I consider enchantment something we can do as a peripheral for the Cartography project, and am not keen on starting the coin or
 
It looks like this won't be relevant this turn because the plans seem to be coalescing around not turning our staff quite yet, but I figured I'd better bring it up anyway:

Whatever awesome plan we come up with for how to make a staff, we should test it out by making a wooden prototype version first to work the kinks out in our design before attempting to work with dragonbone. Buffing our theoretical knowledge from all the research and classes we take isn't enough - practice at applying that knowledge is just as important. I know we're planning to obtain a spare chunk of bone in case we mess up, but I'd rather only have to worry about messing up the crafting than have to worry about both that and wasting expensive material by successfully crafting something with design flaws.
 
The handlers and informers won't protect the EIC from disruption. That's not what it's for. It's for gathering information on people and events outside the EIC, which doesn't protect it from Marienburg. The navy does, so that's what we should do. The Empire needs the canals secured a lot more than it needs a bit more information on things outside the EIC.
A series of ciphers to protect internal communications would also protect the EIC from Marienburg, unlike the handlers and informers.
My thinking was that spies collecting non-public information might give us warning if something starts making trouble in the area; there are already Barak Varr monitors on the Skull River and Black Water Lake, so the most valuable thing we can get at the moment is intel to direct the movements of our ally.

Ciphers are good, but won't help us more than spying on our enemies will.
 
@BoneyM
As far as you're able to tell us, are we currently able to use power stones in enchanting and item creation, or do we need to take the class in making them to use them at all?
 
My thinking was that spies collecting non-public information might give us warning if something starts making trouble in the area; there are already Barak Varr monitors on the Skull River and Black Water Lake, so the most valuable thing we can get at the moment is intel to direct the movements of our ally.

Ciphers are good, but won't help us more than spying on our enemies will.
I remember BoneyM getting asked about Barak Varr monitors and he said the paramilitary navy would still be good because the dwarf hold's monitors are too few to make the whole thing secure - lots of holes.

As for your expectations on the informers, they still sound dubious. "Finding trouble in the area" sounds ancillary to internal protection compared to the navy and ciphers.
 
[X] Plan Classy Navy
[X] Plan Classy Ciphers
[X] Plan Classy Ciphers and Jade Magisters
[x] Plan Fulfill Obligations with Gretel
 
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So, hopefully for the next few turns we can go two on direct improvement, two on helping the expedition directly up until the actual expedition that we take part in with our improved self...this is pretty ideal for me.

[X] Plan Keep It Classy
[X] Plan Classy Ciphers
 
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You can use them when an enchantment would need or benefit from more raw power.
Hrm. Question: are power stones useful for staves, or are staves their own thing? I'm wondering if we might want to buy another Crystal Mist before we turn the staff, so we can incorporate one in our armor and one in the staff.
I remember BoneyM getting asked about Barak Varr monitors and he said the paramilitary navy would still be good because the dwarf hold's monitors are too few to make the whole thing secure - lots of holes.

As for your expectations on the informers, they still sound dubious. "Finding trouble in the area" sounds ancillary to internal protection compared to the navy and ciphers.
Yeah, my point is that having intel on the region via spying would help because then Barak Varr's monitors can be where they need to be when they need to be, or the canal sites can be on guard against an overland attack from "bandits". Knowing what your enemy is going to do is the most important thing you can have in a hostile situation. Securing our communications is great, but right now I feel it's more valuable to keep an eye on the region rather than stop Marienburg from keeping an eye on us.

OK, and now to bed, please yell at me if you see me reacting/responding to posts in the next few hours.
 
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