- Location
- ?????????
No green bound template for tremor sense?
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
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No green bound template for tremor sense?
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The thing is, anyone savvy enough to pick up on our interests and motivations, which granted won't be many due to how secretive we are, will cotton onto the fact that it's a polite fiction made reality due to our desire to not suborn any of our authority to another faction.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Still haven't decided on a good chassis capable of Burrowing. That's the one I want to use with the Greenbound template for Tremorsense.
- Location
- Canada (eh)
Oh definitely, keeping a facade of fairness and impartiality by keeping to the laws (that we wrote) allows us to project a better image than ruling as a tyrant. Anyone in Viserys' inner circle knows he prefers the Old Gods and the Snek over the Seven and the Red god (but this has improved a bit recently). I personally have a problem with the Septon's assumption that somehow his religious views carry enough weight to influence Imperial law and was pointing out that if anything the faith of the Seven is the one we would be the least likely to listen to.
- Location
- ?????????
Do we have access to the Cthonic template? Because with that everything can have a burrowing speed.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
That's not one available to us AFAIK.
Ah, but those are supposed to be hidden from sight, populated by the desperate and downtrodden, and visited by furtive fellows after the sun has set when darkness might obscure their identities, not celebrated in the light of day within a magnificent temple and staffed by happy courtesans who could instead be more productive doing laundry or popping out a new kid every year or so until they die young, with every bit of life squeezed out of them by crushing poverty, poor nutrition, and a complete lack of healthcare.
- Location
- United States
Truer words have never been spoken. The Seven have done jack shit for us.
lancelot
Completely worth it
I enjoy smart asses as much as anyone but the problem with one part of that is the temporary visits the whores if not every day then close enough not to matter. So 'furtive fellows' doesn't much work in context.
Is a Bloodplate Burster good enough for what you have it mind? It has 120 ft of tremor sense, 60 ft of blindsight, scent, and a burrow speed of 30ft. It also likes to inject people with high pressure acid until they literally explode, coating everything within 15 feet in caustic juices and gore.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Those are neat, but they are way too big and their CR is too high. The goal is to produce something in the CR 6 to 7 range and no larger than Medium-size. That will let us grow them in reasonable numbers and allow them to occupy any space Humans might find themselves.
Those could be a nice chassis for a heavy duty servitor, though, just not a mass produced one.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
@Goldfish, I'm starting on the next month's forge order,
And I'd really rather the Vigilant Briars to have the tremorsense from the get-go, to make them as much of an all-purpose detector as we can.
Otherwise, we'd end up making far too fuckjng many different creatures for no good reason.
...Trust me, from here it looks like anout 400-500 of them to cover everywhere.
Ya mind if I put Greenbound template on them, getting them to CR 6?
And I'd really rather the Vigilant Briars to have the tremorsense from the get-go, to make them as much of an all-purpose detector as we can.
Otherwise, we'd end up making far too fuckjng many different creatures for no good reason.
...Trust me, from here it looks like anout 400-500 of them to cover everywhere.
Ya mind if I put Greenbound template on them, getting them to CR 6?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I made the Vigilant Briars CR 4 for a reason. They can't detect everything, but for 660 IM, they handily cover most of the bases. We can produce them in large numbers for a reasonable price, meaning it wouldn't be crazy to grow several hundred of them next month. There will be no shortage of places to assign them.
I'll finalize a CR 6 version with Tremorsense tomorrow. They'll cost 1,320 IM each, which isn't ridiculous, but it's enough that we shouldn't try to make too many of them. Bodyguard details will probably get these (or Hunter Bio-Constructs for serious VIPs), along with those guarding important facilities, but the Vigilant Briars can be assigned everywhere else.
If we make it Young it's down to 8 and large sized, which is more manageable. I'm looking for something to get it down to the 6-7 range, but so far all I've got is Drunk. Even if it was possible to make a permanent feature, this thing has the ability to pop people like peeps in a microwave at will - so it would probably be a bad idea.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
If we grow all the CR 4's we want, the CR 6's become largely irrelevant.
And trying to supplement the CR 4's with CR 6's would be messy on the sheets, messy on the finances (if only because of the sheer numbers), and largely pointless to boot.
For me, it is "either or" choice.
Bodyguards are fine as-is.
Thank you for throwing these all together, I'm arguing just the logistics of this.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm currently leaning toward using Young Dogmoles as a base chassis. They come with Blindsight and Scent, plus they can Burrow and Swim. Greenbound would work very well in them.
Dogmole – d20PFSRD
www.d20pfsrd.com
They have different roles. There is no reason to deploy both types together.
We're not going to be able to make a one-sided fits all servitor for this purpose, dude. There are too many environments and scenarios where they'll need to be assigned.
So for some other options:I'm currently leaning toward using Young Dogmoles as a base chassis. They come with Blindsight and Scent, plus they can Burrow and Swim. Greenbound would work very well in them.
Dogmole – d20PFSRD
They have different roles. There is no reason to deploy both types together.
We're not going to be able to make a one-sided fits all servitor for this purpose, dude. There are too many environments and scenarios where they'll need to be assigned.
Ankhegs, which are horse sized bugs that spit acid. They have better senses ( low light vision, 60ft dar vision, 60ft tremor sense) and a 20 ft burrow speed. They're also only CR 3, so not too much more expensive to build.
Dust Diggers, a sort of large underground starfish, if we can swing aberrations. It's got 60 ft tremor sense and dark vision, in addition to a 20ft burrow speed. It's also got this sort of interesting trap ability and is only CR 4.
edit: wait, I completely forgot that we had Ankhegs already. I knew we had bug monsters, but I didn't realize they could burrow so I assumed they were something else. That makes them perfect for this since we can just drop one from the zoo right into the forge.
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- Location
- Germany
Well, if you really squint the "Seven who are One" can also be said to resemble the christian Holy Tinity of God Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
That only works on an extreme surface-level, but it's there.
Besides, the Seven "gave" their chosen people a promised land in the move from Andalos to Westeros, so that somewhat mirrors Old Testament events (again, it doesn't really work, but you can see parallels).
Then there is the fact that they are against gambling, prostitution and various other things that make life fun, so it's obvious that some connections to the Catholic Church are drawn. And also they do the whole violent proselytisation thing.
For the afterlife, they have a Heaven-and-Hell concept, which is not unique to Christianity, but at least in that specific form not universal to most religions either.
So all in all, while the core-concepts of the Faith of the Seven are not that similar to Christianity, enough of the outer trappings are that you can easily think that the Seven are fantasy-altered Christianity.
[X] Crake
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] Crake
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
The biggest criticisms for that bit of world building isn't the similarities or parallels drawn between it and real world history/religion, but how utterly bland and directionless it is.
The Faith of the Seven in canon and here feels hollow... because it is.
In canon, there's no reason for that hollowness. It's just window dressing.
Here, we know why it's so hollow seeming. Death of Hope is in effect.
The Faith of the Seven in canon and here feels hollow... because it is.
In canon, there's no reason for that hollowness. It's just window dressing.
Here, we know why it's so hollow seeming. Death of Hope is in effect.
- Location
- Germany
It would be nice to know when the Breaking of Heaven actually happened, in Planetos-time.
If it happened before the Long Night, before the Andal-religion even became a thing in the first place, that explains a lot.
A religion headed by traumatized gods, who had build their Heaven right next to the shattered remains of the original and always knew they are less than what has Fallen there.
That would certainly have these effects.
Regardless, the Faith of the Seven is not set up as a wartime-religion, at least not fundamentally, so I doubt that's the case.
If the Faith where designed from the very beginning to primarily channel high-CR souls into their heaven to serve as Outsider-material and defend against the Void/Devils/Daemons/everything, it would have resulted in a very different religion.
More of a death-cult, where death for your faith is the highest glory. Also more positive to magic. And likely more centralized so they can directly support the higher spheres from the Material Plane, instead of "just" sending up the souls of the faithfull.
If it happened before the Long Night, before the Andal-religion even became a thing in the first place, that explains a lot.
A religion headed by traumatized gods, who had build their Heaven right next to the shattered remains of the original and always knew they are less than what has Fallen there.
That would certainly have these effects.
Regardless, the Faith of the Seven is not set up as a wartime-religion, at least not fundamentally, so I doubt that's the case.
If the Faith where designed from the very beginning to primarily channel high-CR souls into their heaven to serve as Outsider-material and defend against the Void/Devils/Daemons/everything, it would have resulted in a very different religion.
More of a death-cult, where death for your faith is the highest glory. Also more positive to magic. And likely more centralized so they can directly support the higher spheres from the Material Plane, instead of "just" sending up the souls of the faithfull.
- Location
- France
The canon Faith of the Seven is theologically hollow because its theology is ultimately irrelevant. It's vaguely reminiscent of Christianity because it's sort of meant to parallel the medieval Catholic Church, but that's about it.
No, in the plot of the books the Faith is effectively important as a social institution, not as a religious one. It effectively represents the wrath of the peasantry who have been suffering beneath the yoke of warlike Lords tearing the lands apart for reasons the people don't give a fuck about (boo hoo you took the throne I wanted/ran off with my betrothed/killed my father, now I'm going to cause a famine and kill tens of thousands to feel better), and the slow power struggle between the poor rioters led by begging brothers VS the fat high septon who's living off Lannister coin is another part of this.
The actual religion isn't important to the story, and the Westerosi nobility doesn't even bother to use to for their casus belli or anything.
Basically the Faith is the last hope of the people in Westeros. When the Lords are going around ruining your life, the Faith is where you turn to keep them accountable. Indeed, Westerosi Lords are quite a bit less pious and theologically educated than IRL medieval nobility was, which makes this even more significant.
Sure the Faith is usually just as rapacious and corrupt as any other big Westerosi institution, but when things get really bad there's a power struggle, the sparrows win, and they start bloody rebellions which can scare kings into giving lip service to basic human rights and human decency.
The lore of the setting is full of big, bloody wars of faith in which the peasantry united beneath the banner of the Faith (a sparrow-style Faith, not the Fat One's Faith) to demand peace and an end to the more unnacceptable lordly behavior. They're what killed the Dragons, scared the Targaryens, and are now bringing the Iron Throne to its knees in the capital (Tyrells and Lannisters can plot against each other for book after book, but in the end the sparrows decide to oppose them both at once and seem to be winning handily).
IMO if we're going to be complaining about the way the Faith of the Seven was used in the books we should be talking about this sort of thing, and not about their theology. The theology was never the point.
EDIT: When a peasant revolution starts, it needs some theory behind it to get real results. I'm not saying "there must be a vanguard party leading the revolution and giving orders", but there needs to be some sort of shared idea and collective demands and values. Even if you don't want to overthrow the state, you need to know what you want so that the movement keeps going until you get it. Establishing this mid-revolution is crazily hard. Westeros doesn't have concepts like socialism or Enlightenment human rights that were the ideological backbone of many successful IRL revolutions, and the peasantry doesn't even have a tribal/national identity (or clear leaders) to rally around when they fight the Lords. Therefore they rally around the Faith, which strictly speaking does have a bunch of rules that basically boil down to "human rights + don't be a dick to each other". Sure nobody applies them to the country's leaders normally, but they're there in the holy texts and have divine authority backing them, so in times of strife they're a perfect thing for the peasantry to unite behind. Indeed, IMO it's significant that the parts of the Faith's theology we know the most about are the commandments the sparrows keep invoking, and not any commandments the lords of the land could have been using to justify whatever they do (like IRL medieval nobility often did).
No, in the plot of the books the Faith is effectively important as a social institution, not as a religious one. It effectively represents the wrath of the peasantry who have been suffering beneath the yoke of warlike Lords tearing the lands apart for reasons the people don't give a fuck about (boo hoo you took the throne I wanted/ran off with my betrothed/killed my father, now I'm going to cause a famine and kill tens of thousands to feel better), and the slow power struggle between the poor rioters led by begging brothers VS the fat high septon who's living off Lannister coin is another part of this.
The actual religion isn't important to the story, and the Westerosi nobility doesn't even bother to use to for their casus belli or anything.
Basically the Faith is the last hope of the people in Westeros. When the Lords are going around ruining your life, the Faith is where you turn to keep them accountable. Indeed, Westerosi Lords are quite a bit less pious and theologically educated than IRL medieval nobility was, which makes this even more significant.
Sure the Faith is usually just as rapacious and corrupt as any other big Westerosi institution, but when things get really bad there's a power struggle, the sparrows win, and they start bloody rebellions which can scare kings into giving lip service to basic human rights and human decency.
The lore of the setting is full of big, bloody wars of faith in which the peasantry united beneath the banner of the Faith (a sparrow-style Faith, not the Fat One's Faith) to demand peace and an end to the more unnacceptable lordly behavior. They're what killed the Dragons, scared the Targaryens, and are now bringing the Iron Throne to its knees in the capital (Tyrells and Lannisters can plot against each other for book after book, but in the end the sparrows decide to oppose them both at once and seem to be winning handily).
IMO if we're going to be complaining about the way the Faith of the Seven was used in the books we should be talking about this sort of thing, and not about their theology. The theology was never the point.
EDIT: When a peasant revolution starts, it needs some theory behind it to get real results. I'm not saying "there must be a vanguard party leading the revolution and giving orders", but there needs to be some sort of shared idea and collective demands and values. Even if you don't want to overthrow the state, you need to know what you want so that the movement keeps going until you get it. Establishing this mid-revolution is crazily hard. Westeros doesn't have concepts like socialism or Enlightenment human rights that were the ideological backbone of many successful IRL revolutions, and the peasantry doesn't even have a tribal/national identity (or clear leaders) to rally around when they fight the Lords. Therefore they rally around the Faith, which strictly speaking does have a bunch of rules that basically boil down to "human rights + don't be a dick to each other". Sure nobody applies them to the country's leaders normally, but they're there in the holy texts and have divine authority backing them, so in times of strife they're a perfect thing for the peasantry to unite behind. Indeed, IMO it's significant that the parts of the Faith's theology we know the most about are the commandments the sparrows keep invoking, and not any commandments the lords of the land could have been using to justify whatever they do (like IRL medieval nobility often did).
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It happened at the beginning of the Long night, that is when the planes started desynchronizing from the material.
- Location
- florida
Ironically the moral line of reasoning would probably resonate with the septons and lords concerns far more than any amount of political reality.
They seem to have basically come in here following the logic that prostitution = bad, without actually grasping a lot of the underlying causes and effects.
- Location
- Germany
So the Faith of the Seven was founded post-breaking most likely.
It's somewhat interesting that a Heaven-adjacent divine realm has survived for so long then, particularly for the ages of low magic, when the curch on the Material Plane couldn't contribute anything but prayer and low-CR souls for entire centuries.
Did they just never come into the focus of destructive forces, or do they have some tricks left up their collective sleeves that keep them safe?