A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Azel said:

It's not as if the Imperial communication ways are any better, what with the Inquisition being pretty much founded for the purpose of mass surveillance.

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• For our purposes, this will be built similarly to a Trolley Car. This will effectively make it a Quadrupedal Creature when determining carrying capacity, or in this case, the amount of weight it can pull.
  • Carrying Capacity (Strength 30): (1,600 base carrying capacity) * 6 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 9,600 pounds
  • Pulling Capacity (Strength 30): (1,600 base carrying capacity * 5 for pulling) * 6 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 48,000 pounds * 2 (Special Modifier) = 96,000 pounds
    • Special Modifier: Pulling capacity is doubled in favorable conditions. In our case, the Construct would be use tracks laid in the center of the streets of SD or on the special tracks we have been building into all of our roadways.
  • At Huge-size, it has 4 Construction Points (CP).
    • Constructed from magically Hardened Iron (Cost: 2 CP)
    • Increased Speed: +20 feet (Cost: 2 CP) for a total movement speed of 50 ft.
      • A movement speed of 50 ft is equivalent to that of a horse. At a run, this translates to a sustained speed of 22.72 mph. A Construct, unlike a living creature, does not tire, meaning it can maintain this speed indefinitely.
      • While pulling additional cars, however, it will be limited to half this speed, a still respectable 11.36 mph, which is actually much more reasonable in an urban environment like Sorcerer's Deep, at least for public transportation as it currently stands.
  • Using the measurements of a Heavy Wagonas a guide for an acceptable Huge-sized vehicle, our Construct Trolley would be 20 feet long and ten feet wide.
    • Without trying to cram people in like sardines, internal seating arrangement could easily allow four rows of seating, with two rows to a side and a small middle aisle. Each row could hold nine people, for a total seating capacity of 36.
    • Mundane trolley cars could be attached to the Construct Trolley, with each car increasing capacity by 36. Again being conservative, assuming each additional car weighs 6,000 pounds, or 12,000 when fully loaded with up to 36 people, the Construct Trolley could pull eight such fully loaded cars at up to 11.36 mph. Fully loaded, a Construct Trolley with eight cars could transport up to 324 passengers.
      • Construct Trolleys could be used above ground as in the streets of SD, perhaps pulling one or two additional cars, or employed underground as part of a subway system pulling up to eight cars.
  • Permanency Cost: 3,000 IM

• Carrying Capacity (Strength 38): (4,800 base carrying capacity) * 12 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 57,600 pounds
• Pulling Capacity (Strength 38): (4,800 base carrying capacity * 5 for pulling) * 12 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 288,000 pounds * 2 (Special Modifier) = 576,000 pounds
  • Special Modifier: Pulling capacity is doubled in favorable conditions. In our case, the Construct would use the tracks we have been building into all of our roadways.
• At Gargantuan-size, it has 5 Construction Points (CP).
  • Constructed from magically Hardened Iron (Cost: 2 CP)
  • Increased Speed: +30 feet (Cost: 3 CP) for a total movement speed of 60 ft.
    • At a run, this translates to a sustained speed of 27.27 mph. A Construct, unlike a living creature, does not tire, meaning it can maintain this speed indefinitely.
    • While pulling additional cars, however, it will be limited to half this speed, approximately 13.64 mph.
• Permanency Cost: 3,000 IM (yep, the price to render the spell Permanent doesn't change)

TalonofAnathrax said:

Communications in our Imperium are mostly horsemen carrying messages, IIRC. Possibly ships carrying letters too.
Ravens and mirrors are there for institutions (and businesses can buy Brazier use, I think), but everyday people still use more primitive means. It's still an improvement because we improved the network, of course.

I don't quite understand the issue ?
The Inquisition isn't a problem for us, and for non-traitors it's a privacy issue, not an impediment to communications.

Or maybe I misunderstood your post, or the one you were responding to.

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DragonParadox said:

Mists of the Past ​

Seventh Day of the First Month 294 AC

Ghoyan Drohe, New City

Like many places in the growing empire, Ghoyan Drohe was a city built amid the ruins of an older time. Colonists had set about with a will to dredge canals and raise stilts and platforms from the soft water loving woods while the stones of ancient works chocked in greenery was being was dragged down with rocks and clever pulleys to build homes and shops, schools and healers' halls. The only thing they haven't quite gotten a handle on are the mosquitoes, Valaena thought as she watched swarms of buzzing pests rise from pools along the sluggish waters of the Little Rhyone. Thank Sea, Snake, and Tree that Mercy thought to bring that alchemist's paste or the things would've eaten us all alive before the ghosts could get at us.

The fire of a small temple of the Lord of Light burned crimson against the darkening sky, the priest already waiting for them, cups of steaming peppermint tea at the ready. The priest was the most senior accredited mage in the city, having dabbled in ritual magic even before the awakening, mostly in glamor and divination as most had in those days.

"So about these blood curdling wraiths of yours," Shara began with a smile, board and stylus already in hand. "Any distinguishing features besides having woken up on the wrong side of the bed after someone smashed the wrong pot in their tomb? Something that can tell us where they come from, maybe what they want..."

"The dead envy the living and grasp at their warmth," the priest sighed, apparently not appreciating the good cheer. "Much as it might pain us to heap more pain upon those who have already suffered so terribly, I fear there is only one way of ensuring this city can live in peace."

"And the poor envy the rich and some among their number would do them harm if they could, that does not mean we should be going around killing beggars," Mercy pointed out dryly.

"The dead have already stolen life from those who first came upon them in their tomb," the priest pointed out, though he sounded less certain than before.

"The same folk who were probably trying to steal their grave goods," Valaena pointed out. "I'm not one to say they shouldn't have been down there. I've been in their place, hells the king has been in their place, but if you go down into a tomb with a torch and a sack, you're taking your chances with whatever is down there."

Argo huffed affirmatively, his breath almost putting out the candle set between them and the priest.

"Wise words," the R'hllorite said after a moment. "I had heard inquisitors could be strange folk, but I had not thought..." He shook his head, obviously not inclined to echo whatever rumors he had heard about inquisitors. It obviously could not have been too bad given their welcome, Valaena reasoned, but maybe he thought they were more inclined to err on the side of conflict than negotiations.

"We are not with the Inquisition, just here to investigate under royal command," the young Velaryon explained smoothly. Shara actually was an inquisitor, but the sort of cheerfully excitable persona she had adopted was far from what most folk thought an inquisitor would look like.

The priest nodded, steepling his hands together in thought. "They come with the fog from the river, not always at the same hour, but often the third hour after midnight. Sometimes they are barely more than a shimmer in the air, but if any should draw too close, especially those of Valyrian blood, they become horrors fit to terrify man and beast alike."

"Wait," Mercy asked slowly. "You are saying these wraiths do not frighten beasts as a matter of course? Odd..."

"Could you direct us to any witnesses who survived, particularly ones with any knowledge of magic and spirits themselves," Shara interjected, apparently unconcerned that she might be a target for wrathful ghosts

"Certainly," the priest replied, continuing with an account of which of the local temple goers had encountered the vengeful dead and where. On the one hand, the fact that they liked to roam along the thread of the Little Rhyone made ambushing the spirits difficult, but on the other at least there were plenty of eyewitness accounts to sift through

What do they investigators on the spot do for the first week while they wait for Xor to join them?

[] Interview Witnesses

[] Investigate the broken tombs
-[] At a distance, though historical accounts and divination
-[] in person enter the tombs

[] Set up a system whereby a group of false ravens flies patterns over the city to try and find the ghosts location each night

[] Write in

OOC: Xor is by far the most skilled mage in this company so no one is going to try to force a confrontation without him. Not yet edited.

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Azel said:

There are some other people in the Bad Guy camp who are comparable in badness for you personally when it comes down to it. Zherys for example, for also follows Pragmatic Evil guidelines, or Tywin, who is a decently nice ruler for the smallfolk and only really leans that hard on the nobility.

Also, I didn't make an eternal slavery argument either, just that the political system the Imperium has is very top-down and with everyone except Viserys being easily overridden in whatever they say or do. It is a very absolute monarchy and thus can be easily called a tyranny, since all rights are explicitly given only at the leisure of the head of state. If that is a bad thing or a good thing depends on your personal take. Louis XIV was definitely a better ruler for most of his subjects then Josef Stalin, but neither of them were terribly fond of sharing their absolute power.

That's the context we are in though. In a the 15th century he would have been a bleeding heart liberal, but we are not a 15th century audience.

Which is pretty much the thing. The Imperium is very much in the facist corner of political systems, with militarism, strong state control and all the other trappings. The main difference is that the threats both internal and external (Daemon cultists, Baator, Void, etc.) are not made up propaganda. They really exist and they really want everything to burn.

But one should keep in mind what the system we have built actually is and that other options existed. The alternative is Strong-Man shilling and the good old Hard Men making Hard Decisions while Hard. A lot of the bad stuff Viserys has done and keeps doing is strictly optional, but is being done because it gives him more personal and political power. We could have also become a wandering adventurer that helped those in need for free and united the world as a inspiring leader, instead of an absolute ruler.

And no, whatever beautiful arguments some people might now want to throw at me to justify these actions should keep in mind that they are just that. Justifications. Every Strong-Man has those.

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Goldfish said:

On the topic of mass transportation within cities and their local environments;

We start with a Huge-sized Animated Object.

• For our purposes, this will be built similarly to a Trolley Car. This will effectively make it a Quadrupedal Creature when determining carrying capacity, or in this case, the amount of weight it can pull.
  • Carrying Capacity (Strength 30): (1,600 base carrying capacity) * 6 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 9,600 pounds
  • Pulling Capacity (Strength 30): (1,600 base carrying capacity * 5 for pulling) * 6 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 48,000 pounds * 2 (Special Modifier) = 96,000 pounds
    • Special Modifier: Pulling capacity is doubled in favorable conditions. In our case, the Construct would be use tracks laid in the center of the streets of SD or on the special tracks we have been building into all of our roadways.
  • At Huge-size, it has 4 Construction Points (CP).
    • Constructed from magically Hardened Iron (Cost: 2 CP)
    • Increased Speed: +20 feet (Cost: 2 CP) for a total movement speed of 50 ft.
      • A movement speed of 50 ft is equivalent to that of a horse. At a run, this translates to a sustained speed of 22.72 mph. A Construct, unlike a living creature, does not tire, meaning it can maintain this speed indefinitely.
      • While pulling additional cars, however, it will be limited to half this speed, a still respectable 11.36 mph, which is actually much more reasonable in an urban environment like Sorcerer's Deep, at least for public transportation as it currently stands.
  • Using the measurements of a Heavy Wagonas a guide for an acceptable Huge-sized vehicle, our Construct Trolley would be 20 feet long and ten feet wide.
    • Without trying to cram people in like sardines, internal seating arrangement could easily allow four rows of seating, with two rows to a side and a small middle aisle. Each row could hold nine people, for a total seating capacity of 36.
    • Mundane trolley cars could be attached to the Construct Trolley, with each car increasing capacity by 36. Again being conservative, assuming each additional car weighs 6,000 pounds, or 12,000 when fully loaded with up to 36 people, the Construct Trolley could pull eight such fully loaded cars at up to 11.36 mph. Fully loaded, a Construct Trolley with eight cars could transport up to 324 passengers.
      • Construct Trolleys could be used above ground as in the streets of SD, perhaps pulling one or two additional cars, or employed underground as part of a subway system pulling up to eight cars.
  • Permanency Cost: 3,000 IM

A Gargantuan-sized version of this type of Construct would have a much higher pulling capacity.

• Carrying Capacity (Strength 38): (4,800 base carrying capacity) * 12 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 57,600 pounds
• Pulling Capacity (Strength 38): (4,800 base carrying capacity * 5 for pulling) * 12 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 288,000 pounds * 2 (Special Modifier) = 576,000 pounds
  • Special Modifier: Pulling capacity is doubled in favorable conditions. In our case, the Construct would use the tracks we have been building into all of our roadways.
• At Gargantuan-size, it has 5 Construction Points (CP).
  • Constructed from magically Hardened Iron (Cost: 2 CP)
  • Increased Speed: +30 feet (Cost: 3 CP) for a total movement speed of 60 ft.
    • At a run, this translates to a sustained speed of 27.27 mph. A Construct, unlike a living creature, does not tire, meaning it can maintain this speed indefinitely.
    • While pulling additional cars, however, it will be limited to half this speed, approximately 13.64 mph.
• Permanency Cost: 3,000 IM (yep, the price to render the spell Permanent doesn't change)

If we had Viserys cast the spells to render the new Animated Object Permanent, with buffs and gear, the effective caster level to resist Dispelling would be at 34. That would mean the only way someone could Dispel it would be if they pumped their caster level up to 25, cast a Chain Dispel spell, and got a Natural 20 on their Dispel check.

Obviously, with maximum speeds of less than 30 mph and a fairly anemic cargo capacity these aren't really an alternative to the steam trains the Bulabar have been working on for a long while now, but I think they would be a good supplement to our transport systems.

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Goldfish said:

On the topic of mass transportation within cities and their local environments;

We start with a Huge-sized Animated Object.

• For our purposes, this will be built similarly to a Trolley Car. This will effectively make it a Quadrupedal Creature when determining carrying capacity, or in this case, the amount of weight it can pull.
  • Carrying Capacity (Strength 30): (1,600 base carrying capacity) * 6 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 9,600 pounds
  • Pulling Capacity (Strength 30): (1,600 base carrying capacity * 5 for pulling) * 6 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 48,000 pounds * 2 (Special Modifier) = 96,000 pounds
    • Special Modifier: Pulling capacity is doubled in favorable conditions. In our case, the Construct would be use tracks laid in the center of the streets of SD or on the special tracks we have been building into all of our roadways.
  • At Huge-size, it has 4 Construction Points (CP).
    • Constructed from magically Hardened Iron (Cost: 2 CP)
    • Increased Speed: +20 feet (Cost: 2 CP) for a total movement speed of 50 ft.
      • A movement speed of 50 ft is equivalent to that of a horse. At a run, this translates to a sustained speed of 22.72 mph. A Construct, unlike a living creature, does not tire, meaning it can maintain this speed indefinitely.
      • While pulling additional cars, however, it will be limited to half this speed, a still respectable 11.36 mph, which is actually much more reasonable in an urban environment like Sorcerer's Deep, at least for public transportation as it currently stands.
  • Using the measurements of a Heavy Wagonas a guide for an acceptable Huge-sized vehicle, our Construct Trolley would be 20 feet long and ten feet wide.
    • Without trying to cram people in like sardines, internal seating arrangement could easily allow four rows of seating, with two rows to a side and a small middle aisle. Each row could hold nine people, for a total seating capacity of 36.
    • Mundane trolley cars could be attached to the Construct Trolley, with each car increasing capacity by 36. Again being conservative, assuming each additional car weighs 6,000 pounds, or 12,000 when fully loaded with up to 36 people, the Construct Trolley could pull eight such fully loaded cars at up to 11.36 mph. Fully loaded, a Construct Trolley with eight cars could transport up to 324 passengers.
      • Construct Trolleys could be used above ground as in the streets of SD, perhaps pulling one or two additional cars, or employed underground as part of a subway system pulling up to eight cars.
  • Permanency Cost: 3,000 IM

A Gargantuan-sized version of this type of Construct would have a much higher pulling capacity.

• Carrying Capacity (Strength 38): (4,800 base carrying capacity) * 12 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 57,600 pounds
• Pulling Capacity (Strength 38): (4,800 base carrying capacity * 5 for pulling) * 12 (as a Huge Quadrupedal Creature) = 288,000 pounds * 2 (Special Modifier) = 576,000 pounds
  • Special Modifier: Pulling capacity is doubled in favorable conditions. In our case, the Construct would use the tracks we have been building into all of our roadways.
• At Gargantuan-size, it has 5 Construction Points (CP).
  • Constructed from magically Hardened Iron (Cost: 2 CP)
  • Increased Speed: +30 feet (Cost: 3 CP) for a total movement speed of 60 ft.
    • At a run, this translates to a sustained speed of 27.27 mph. A Construct, unlike a living creature, does not tire, meaning it can maintain this speed indefinitely.
    • While pulling additional cars, however, it will be limited to half this speed, approximately 13.64 mph.
• Permanency Cost: 3,000 IM (yep, the price to render the spell Permanent doesn't change)

If we had Viserys cast the spells to render the new Animated Object Permanent, with buffs and gear, the effective caster level to resist Dispelling would be at 34. That would mean the only way someone could Dispel it would be if they pumped their caster level up to 25, cast a Chain Dispel spell, and got a Natural 20 on their Dispel check.

Obviously, with maximum speeds of less than 30 mph and a fairly anemic cargo capacity these aren't really an alternative to the steam trains the Bulabar have been working on for a long while now, but I think they would be a good supplement to our transport systems.

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zxzx24 said:

Wouldn't these be incredibly dangerous in the wrong hands?

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Azel said:

I'd build the tracks so that they can't leave them. We just need to minimize the movement range. Then all you could do is try to run over people in the street.

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Goldfish said:

I know it's not the most exciting option, but I think it makes sense here for the group to take this opportunity to interview witnesses. The ghosts could have said all sorts of interesting or pertinent stuff to the living residents of the city, and even the appearance of the ghosts could be helpful in determining their origins and capabilities.

[X] Interview Witnesses

It was nice to see another Vaelaena POV @DragonParadox. We haven't had one of those in a while. I'm assuming she brought Dawnfyre along for this adventure?

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A_Somebody said:

Eh, Tywin's not holding Ramsey-esque hunts in his lands but idk if he's really better or worse for the average smallfolk. He did roll back Aegon V's reforms (whatever they were) as a power consolidating move. For the most part it seems like he doesn't really consider them important enough to dedicate thought to, but when he does he can be incredibly vicious--see Tysha and his dad's mistress. I have no idea how this would translate to idk, taxation rates and worker's rights in his lands.

But regarding your point that Viserys could've just been a wandering adventurer/inspiring leader. Has that really ever been an option for this setting? I've seen a lot of not unjustified disdain, in this thread, pretty sure from you, and in general (shout out to Kreia from kotr2) about how superficial the wandering in to fix a problem and not address any of the underlying fundamental issues would be.

Like how well could've nice, non-ambitious Viserys dismantled the slave trade and provide a backup social and economic system to replace it with? Sure a wandering adventurer could've burned any number of overseers to free the oppressed slaved and whatnot, but he wouldn't really have the resources to stabilize society enough for it to stick. How comforting would Viserys keeping his own moral integrity be to a plantation slave worked to the bone or a bedslave who pretty has to get raped daily to live? I do think that due to the scale he's worked on the utilitarian net loss in suffering has to be considered when evaluating where Viserys falls on the evil leader scale.

I've also been watching Legend of the Galactic Heroes lately and one of the big themes/debates in that is how much is trying to upload idealistic/democratic ideals worth. Is it worth it to sacrifice the entity that protects those ideals if protecting it means budging at all on your morality? * I feel a good parallel in this quest would be Yrael's journey from leader of a Capital G Good group of outsiders, that were kinda dithering around before we helped them get their asses in gear, to still Capital G Good leader, to someone who fell due to a personal revelation that Capital G Good isn't worth it if preserving it means failing and the suffering that causes. (Yes I'm sure your joining speech to Yrael was intentionally designed to cause his fall, but the salient points still exist without manipulative Viserys.)

*I'm watching it with my fiancé and there's quite a few moments around episodes 40-50 were he gets very angry at Yang and the decisions he makes from a moral perspective. I honestly sympathized with it a little more since after all, sometimes being moral or good means sacrifice, thanks quest! Morality means nothing unless you hold to it even when it makes your life worse!

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zxzx24 said:

Wouldn't these be incredibly dangerous in the wrong hands?

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Azel said:

Hm...

@DragonParadox, permission to speak freely about a few things regarding Yrael and Lucan's personal journeys and philosophies?

I'm perfectly fine if you say no, but I just want it on public record so that I can point to it when this topic comes up.

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Azel said:

Hm...

@DragonParadox, permission to speak freely about a few things regarding Yrael and Lucan's personal journeys and philosophies?

I'm perfectly fine if you say no, but I just want it on public record so that I can point to it when this topic comes up.

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