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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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One Autumn Leaf said:
What are their opinions on melting monsters for their sweet sweet templates? I am assuming that is something they will hate.
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Look, at the end of the day, the line is "Don't do anything evil or which infringes upon people's free will".

Not everyone can view things past a lens of axiomatic morality. If you want to go beyond good and evil, sometimes you also need to crack a few good eggs.
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
What are their opinions on melting monsters for their sweet sweet templates? I am assuming that is something they will hate.
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Nah fam, what you should ask is that: what's their opinion of summoning Devils from the Nine Hells to be used as grafts for our future Standing Elite Army.

If it's anything less than "Yes!" then they're a lost cause.
 
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Duesal said:
Over time the feeling is most likely going to be mutual. We're far too pragmatic for them.

It's a useful spell that gets intel on the Deep Ones, which doesn't even harm the recipient. The only reason not to use it would be to spare the recipient's "dignity" or whatever's left of it.

If she has an issue with that then I see a lot of problems down the line.
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Violating the sanctity of someone's own thoughts and memories is seen unfavourable by many people. Doing so habitually due to a massive power imbalance and contempt for value of the victim as a sentient being...

Look. There are worse things to do, but this certainly isn't a nice thing to do by any measure.
 
We should definitely try to arrange a meeting, if only to sound them out. Not because I consider them reliable, but because they are likely too desperate to fight both us and the Elder Brain right now. Fighting over every last Lord's son isn't Illithid SOP, they would much rather just have reserves.
 
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Azel said:
Violating the sanctity of someone's own thoughts and memories is seen unfavourable by many people. Doing so habitually due to a massive power imbalance and contempt for value of the victim as a sentient being...

Look. There are worse things to do, but this certainly isn't a nice thing to do by any measure.
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I understand that it's evil, but it's a level of evil that's pretty low on the scale compared to all the other things we do (recruiting fiends, blood sacrifice, flesh forging monstrosities, etc). If this is one of Danelle's lines--and I wouldn't expect it not to be, she has her own principles--I won't be holding my breath for cooperation later down the road.
egoo said:
Don't generalize plz.

People just aren't really vocal about agreeing with the fact we have to kill them.
Mostly because we have no time to.

Like, seriously.
It's one Eldritch Boss of the Month after another.
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In this case I think it's more that people are in denial. We're genuinely not compatible with Danelle, I don't see it working out.
 
The way I ACTUALLY look at it, if people must know, is that I don't like getting into the habit of murdering people who have done nothing wrong beyond being obstacles in our path.

I am resigned to the idea we will have to murder her later, but only after she makes it clear to any passive observer that she attacked us first. In which case, she engaged in the cardinal sin of poking a sleeping dragon, and deserved her fate.
 
Crake said:
The way I ACTUALLY look at it, if people must know, is that I don't like getting into the habit of murdering people who have done nothing wrong beyond being obstacles in our path.

I am resigned to the idea we will have to murder her later, but only after she makes it clear to any passive observer that she attacked us first. In which case, she engaged in the cardinal sin of poking a sleeping dragon, and deserved her fate.
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I think most of us who believe we're going to eventually have to kill her have no issue with waiting until she strikes first. That's just a PR buffer we can work to our advantage in the aftermath.
 
[X] Azel

As previously stated Renegade Illithids have been a thing ever since Savage Species came out in 2003, the main argument against trying for cooperation in this case is that they only remain renegade while out of range of an Elder Brain's Domination effect.

We were planning to kill the Elder Brain anyway so we should be fine
 
Duesal said:
It's a useful spell that gets intel on the Deep Ones, which doesn't even harm the recipient. The only reason not to use it would be to spare the recipient's "dignity" or whatever's left of it.

If she has an issue with that then I see a lot of problems down the line.
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From her perspective it's a horrible invasion of privacy that does not seem worth it when you have both the ability to interrogate him normally and social skills that make it practically impossible for him to lie effectively to you.
 
We already know that the Stranger is working against us. Brienne is a child. The Chosen of the Mother is nowhere to be seen. The Smith boy is neutral...so far. The Crone is also somewhere. Lucan...we can't work with that man. Danielle is starting to piss me off. Yeah either MIA or someone we can't work with.
 
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I feel like we've drifted off topic.

edit: The smiths chosen has been making dragon bane weapons. Hes just... really frigging weak.
 
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DragonParadox said:
From her perspective it's a horrible invasion of privacy that does not seem worth it when you have both the ability to interrogate him normally and social skills that make it practically impossible for him to lie effectively to you.
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That's the thing, DP. From our perspective, we just don't care. Our priority isn't this guy's dignity or privacy, it's getting intel on the Deep Ones or whatever else he's been working with or being the puppet of.

This is a difference in perspective that almost definitely branches out to the other things we're not going to stop doing.

Blood sacrifice. Recruiting fiends. Flesh forging monstrosities. Soul killing. Etc.

There are too many compromises that would need to be made.
 
DragonParadox said:
From her perspective it's a horrible invasion of privacy that does not seem worth it when you have both the ability to interrogate him normally and social skills that make it practically impossible for him to lie effectively to you.
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He could just not say anything. It works when you get picked up by the police as a suspect to a crime. Most interrogation techniques they employ involve sitting you alone in a room and asking the same questions over and over and over again until you crack. But then that's only when the people interrogating only care about extracting a conviction, not extracting the truth. In which case doing so could result in him saying ANYTHING so long as the interrogation finally ends. In which case that's only verifiable using magic and its right back to interrogating.

I think the argument posited is that using mind magic gets the same result, completely verifiable, and doesn't waste valuable time we could spend on any number of other things, when the time Viserys spends doing literally anything is probably commiserate to the amount of lives or resources saved or gained by several orders of magnitude.
 
Cruelty I can understand. Why you guys always get up in arms about your right to be cruel for the sake of being cruel is where I get lost.
 
Duesal said:
That's the thing, DP. From our perspective, we just don't care. Our priority isn't this guy's dignity or privacy, it's getting intel on the Deep Ones or whatever else he's been working with or being the puppet of.
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I'm not making a value judgement here on what Viserys thinks, that's up to the voters informed by prior actions. I was just pointing out what the character thinks and why in accordance to Viserys' high sense motive and the fact that she is not event trying to hide that aspect of her personality.
 
I'm still having trouble getting over the idea that Danelle might have an issue with us using a Brain Spider spell to harmlessly extract potentially critical information from an individual, information which could directly save many lives, when the only viable alternatives are intimidation, torture, or drugging them to insensibility. None of the latter options are really reliable, quick, or safe, for various reasons.

I'm not personally comfortable with the idea myself, but practicality and need easily outweigh a bit of ethical squeamishness on such a minor issue. It's not like the spell damages the target's mind, body, or soul, and it's not fueled by baby blood or virgin souls.
DragonParadox said:
Somewhat yeah, it's probably more relevant to discuss what the gith will think of you guys negotiating with ilithids.
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Even if we end up meeting with the Sunset Shores faction, I don't see us really negotiating in any manner which would bother the Githzerai. "Negotiations" would imply willingness to make concessions.
 
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