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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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DragonParadox said:
All dragons are as much children of Tiamat the Many-Hued as they are of their own parents, the chaos of her blood runs through them. When two cromatics of differing breeds made the eggs can come out as any sort of cromatic, though weighted to the parents colors.
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So it would be preferable if he seduced a non-chromatic, but this is fine too, when you told us how this worked earlier, you didn't say that 2 different breeds of chromatics always have Chromatic children, I guess Bahamut's spirit only come into things, when one of the parents isn't chromatic.
Duesal said:
Very nice. I'm interested to see a few decades from now IC what we end up with.
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Maybe we end up with nothing, it's far from certain Ysandrix will return his affections, although he can of course also try his luck, with any of the other dragons in our empire.

I'm hoping Ysandrix reject him, and he hooks up with a Mind Dragon or something, as I would like more variety in our dragons than just chromatics.
 
@DragonParadox, assuming Teana used the scenario outlined here in training Scholarium Initiates, especially the section I've highlighted red down below, would that help them advance more quickly, and perhaps even break through the 5th/6th level cap?
Goldfish said:
So I've previously mentioned the idea of using various types of magic to help train our Scholarium students, having them fight Summoned creatures or run through mock dungeon delves. I hope that's something that is happening in the background, but it could be a bit difficult to arrange logistically, depending on what scenario is being run and how many support casters would be needed to make it happen safely.

Looking over Teana's current spell list, however, I've noticed that she could really easily set this up all on her own.

First she could use Mirage Arcana, to set the stage, whether it's a dungeon, battlefield, Sothoryosi jungle, etc.

Then she casts Shadow Healing on the participants. Not only does this provide the Initiates with a solid buffer to prevent life threatening damage during the scenario, but it also makes them even more unlikely to resist Teana's spells, which make the scenario seem more "real".

After that, she can duplicate any Summon Monster I to VI spells to Summon suitable enemies or allies for the Initiates. Or the Initiates could fight one another or other volunteers, such as Legion trainees, Inquisition agents, etc.

But it's Friend to Foe that really brings it all together. Initiates who choose to participate in these mock adventurer scenarios can use them to learn tactics, teamwork, spell utility, etc., but they probably wouldn't normally be able to fully immerse themselves into the right mindset to treat it as a real life or death type of struggle which can earn them XP in excess of what they would get from study and practice. Friend to Foe removes that barrier, since the affected Initiates would then wholeheartedly believe they were in a situation where they had to fight for their lives. At this point, they've moved beyond Danger Room-style training into seemingly life or death combat.

Of course, all of this would have to be used on willing Initiates, probably on those who are trying to break through the 5th/6th level barrier.

Her Illusion spells, especially Shadow Illusions, are not only very difficult to resist, but they now are all automatically Extended, which makes certain effects last long enough to be more useful for training. As a Sorcerer, she's already got plenty of spell slots to spend on this, but every time she casts a Shadow spell, there's only a 50% chance the spell slot is expended. That makes it easy for her to run several Initiates through multiple scenarios each day.
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by egoo on Mar 4, 2020 at 8:02 AM, finished with 70 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Have Blackheart brought before you. Offer him a stay of execution if he cooperates. If he does, pending interrogation for any lingering contingencies he might be aware of, he will be placed on provisional house arrest, pending good behavior, and then an Inquisition minder thereafter, but he will be as free as most other citizens of the Imperium.
    -[X] We will also examine him before even making the offer rather closely to determine whether or not Lizzirth would have reason to distrust him. Depending on the degree of distrust we will decide if it is a wise idea to make him the messenger.
    [X] Sandor Level Up
    -[X] Class: +1 Occult Slayer
    -[X] Skills (6 points): +2 Intimidate, +2 Knowledge (Arcana), +2 Spellcraft
    [X] Argo Level Up
    -[X] Class: +1 Occult Slayer
    -[X] Skills (2 points): +1 Knowledge (Arcana), +1 Spellcraft
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Duesal said:
Well, as far as I can tell, the 3.5 version is the one that's already been implemented.
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Just because the 3.5 version was linked doesn't meant we can't use the PF version, if DP is willing, since the effect has not yet had a chance to actually be applied during the quest yet.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
Not IC.
There only aborted attempts to cast Disjunction exist, with no definitive word on wether they would have destroyed our magic items or not.

We should defend against it regardless, but if we ever use it, this is the version I suggest: Mage's Disjunction – d20PFSRD
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Dude, the 3.5 version is outright linked in the fight.
DragonParadox said:
An unseen gale seeks to to rip asunder all magic in its path. It would have sent Ser Richard plummeting to his death you know, but you will not allow it. The ring upon your finger burns as you parry one, gasping for breath as though you had to push back a mountain. Time twists and another blow falls, but Lya is ready to counter it in turn.
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Can we just accept the inevitable danger of 3.5 disjunction and move on?

It's been a subject of salted Goldfish since page ~8000 for sure.

By jow we should just accept it as a given and start applying it ourselves.
Bottomline, we have Mage's Bane.
 
Goldfish said:
Just because the 3.5 version was linked doesn't meant we can't use the PF version, if DP is willing, since he effect has not yet had a chance to actually be applied during the quest yet.
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I find the repeat struggle against the spell tiring.

No matter what you say it clearly exists, and our enemies clearly have no problem blasting us with the full version. The only argument I can see for wanting the pathfinder variant for us instead of the 3.5 is an urge to loot, and we're frankly beyond the need at this stage. If we find a particularly powerful enemy this isn't a tool we should deny ourselves.

This is similar to what happened with Shivering Touch. People thought we "agreed" with DP that we generally wouldn't use the spell, but he had no problem giving it to enemies. If they're using it, there's nothing stopping us from doing the same.
 
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Duesal said:
I find the repeat struggle against the spell tiring.

No matter what you say it clearly exists, and our enemies clearly have no problem blasting us with the full version. The only argument I can see for wanting the pathfinder variant for us instead of the 3.5 is an urge to loot, and we're frankly beyond the need at this stage. If we find a particularly powerful enemy this isn't a tool we should deny ourselves.

This is similar to what happened with Shivering Touch. People thought we "agreed" with DP that we generally wouldn't use the spell, but he had no problem giving it to enemies. If they're using it, there's nothing stopping us from doing the same.
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It clearly exists, as it has been used against us. I accept that without issue. I just would prefer the PF version which is mechanically identical in most regards, except magic items aren't permanently disjoined, but instead suppressed for one minute per level.

I could care less about the loot we may lose using it ourselves. We're far past the point of relying on captured equipment. My concern is for our own gear being permanently disjoined. Mage's Disjunction has a huge radius of effect, one which could easily affect multiple people simultaneously.
 
Goldfish said:
It clearly exists, as it has been used against us. I accept that without issue. I just would prefer the PF version which is mechanically identical in most regards, except magic items aren't permanently disjoined, but instead suppressed for one minute per level.

I could care less about the loot we may lose using it ourselves. We're far past the point of relying on captured equipment. My concern is for our own gear being permanently disjoined. Mage's Disjunction has a huge radius of effect, one which could easily affect multiple people simultaneously.
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That's something you'll have to take up with DP. But from what I can tell he's happy to use the 3.5 version until further notice when running particularly spiteful enemies.
 
Goldfish said:
It clearly exists, as it has been used against us. I accept that without issue. I just would prefer the PF version which is mechanically identical in most regards, except magic items aren't permanently disjoined, but instead suppressed for one minute per level.

I could care less about the loot we may lose using it ourselves. We're far past the point of relying on captured equipment. My concern is for our own gear being permanently disjoined. Mage's Disjunction has a huge radius of effect, one which could easily affect multiple people simultaneously.
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That's a known risk of high-level combat though.
 
Azel said:
That's a known risk of high-level combat though.
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There's a reason that the Pathfinder revision of the 3.5 rules included the changes to Mage's Disjunction, though, along with a lot of other little tweaks. Baseline Pathfinder came out more powerful than baseline 3.5 in a lot of ways, but it also ground down a lot of rough edges, exploits that made certain builds ridiculously overpowered and magic that far exceeded the effectiveness of similarly leveled spells.

We are extremely unusual from a standard D&D adventurer, in that if our gear was disjoined, it would suck extremely hard, but we could recover in a couple months of frantic effort and great expense. Not so for a normal adventurer, who wears 95% or more of their wealth on their person in the form of enchanted gear which a single spell can ruin. When that happens, years of effort are essentially lost and the adventurer is left crippled for the foreseeable future.

The PF version is just a common sense adjustment that shouldn't have been needed in the first place, IMO.
 
Goldfish said:
There's a reason that the Pathfinder revision of the 3.5 rules included the changes to Mage's Disjunction, though, along with a lot of other little tweaks. Baseline Pathfinder came out more powerful than baseline 3.5 in a lot of ways, but it also ground down a lot of rough edges, exploits that made certain builds ridiculously overpowered and magic that far exceeded the effectiveness of similarly leveled spells.

We are extremely unusual from a standard D&D adventurer, in that if our gear was disjoined, it would suck extremely hard, but we could recover in a couple months of frantic effort and great expense. Not so for a normal adventurer, who wears 95% or more of their wealth on their person in the form of enchanted gear which a single spell can ruin. When that happens, years of effort are essentially lost and the adventurer is left crippled for the foreseeable future.

The PF version is just a common sense adjustment that shouldn't have been needed in the first place, IMO.
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Personally I'm starting to prefer the 3.5 version. It's an excellent added risk to combat. The Pathfinder version simply doesn't feel nearly as high stakes. If you're going up against a mage of the Ninth Circle they should absolutely have one or two tricks that can utterly fuck you over.
 
Duesal said:
Personally I'm starting to prefer the 3.5 version. It's an excellent added risk to combat. The Pathfinder version simply doesn't feel nearly as high stakes. If you're going up against a mage of the Ninth Circle they should absolutely have one or two tricks that can utterly fuck you over.
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We'll have to see what DP says, I guess.

Thankfully, gear worn by a person gets a Will save to resist being disjoined, and Viserys has a very high will save.
 
Finally got my internet back but I'm still a bit busy

Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by Andy0915 on Mar 4, 2020 at 10:18 AM, finished with 74 posts and 14 votes.
  • [X] Have Blackheart brought before you. Offer him a stay of execution if he cooperates. If he does, pending interrogation for any lingering contingencies he might be aware of, he will be placed on provisional house arrest, pending good behavior, and then an Inquisition minder thereafter, but he will be as free as most other citizens of the Imperium.
    -[X] We will also examine him before even making the offer rather closely to determine whether or not Lizzirth would have reason to distrust him. Depending on the degree of distrust we will decide if it is a wise idea to make him the messenger.
    [X] Sandor Level Up
    -[X] Class: +1 Occult Slayer
    -[X] Skills (6 points): +2 Intimidate, +2 Knowledge (Arcana), +2 Spellcraft
    [X] Argo Level Up
    -[X] Class: +1 Occult Slayer
    -[X] Skills (2 points): +1 Knowledge (Arcana), +1 Spellcraft
    [X] Save DP from Romanian ISP's
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MTB said:
Spellbane exists in this setting; falling prey to Disjunction ...
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Yeah, I'm still pretty well set on dedicating one use of Viserys' Mythic power each day to running a Spellbane effect. Have it block Mage's Disjunction, other Spellbane effects, AMF, and whatever else we deem dangerous on any given day.
 
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