I'm not sure if it'll work, tbqh, she already sees us as an enemy if only due to the fact that we don't intend in the slightest to acknowledge her liege's legitimacy, it smacks of coming in here, the bumbling gaijin, interfering with matters he knows not, etc. etc.

@BronzeTongue, ironically, if you want to throw Pol An Ning a life preserver, being more diplomatic with Xue so she'll actually listen is essential.
 
Ozpin brushed over the fact that he's a knight. I will say that Richard did introduce himself by "Ser", but such antiquated fixtures in Ozpins mind do him no favors in the post-royalist Remnant. Keep in mind, Ozpin definitely was involved with the current order of the world. He helped make all of the Academies.
Aren't the Kingdoms still, well, Kingdoms? I thought this Council business was some sort of widespread headcanon.

Hell, wasn't Ozma a king or something?

Anyway, it was fun to try and identify the various maneuvers. Adamantine Hurrivacen, Avalamche of Blades, maybe Manticore Parry to make the scorpion sting itself, etc.

Now, I think both you and @TalonofAnathrax were fond of weebness, so here's something amazing that I stumbled upon: Arrogant Young Master Template A Variation 4 | Royal Road
 
I low how the pile of ash keep getting taller XD

Look, if people were inclined to trust us at our word, the fact that we're currently up to our shoulders in the ashes of the last people to infinitesimally inconvenience us in anyway whatsoever was the first indicator that they missed some key details about what we're all about.
 
Aren't the Kingdoms still, well, Kingdoms? I thought this Council business was some sort of widespread headcanon.

Hell, wasn't Ozma a king or something?

Anyway, it was fun to try and identify the various maneuvers. Adamantine Hurrivacen, Avalamche of Blades, maybe Manticore Parry to make the scorpion sting itself, etc.

Now, I think both you and @TalonofAnathrax were fond of weebness, so here's something amazing that I stumbled upon: Arrogant Young Master Template A Variation 4 | Royal Road
1) RWBY has so little coherent canon, that fanon is basically canon.

2) The Kingdoms vary, but rule is seemingly collective to some degree in every Kingdom. We don't know about Vacuo per canon, but a group of wealthy families rules Mistral, so likely something similar to oligarchies in Russia. Vale I believe is definitely democratic, and Atlas is an ostensibly democratic military junta. A war was fought to protect people's cultural identity, and the whole "each Kingdom is ruled by an actual King at one time" is complete fanon. There's no confirmation whatsoever that Remnant has had an aristocracy, much less monarchies, but it seems a logical conclusion, and that the Great War which was initially fought to defend individuality rights, led to casting them down ala French Revolution.
 
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@Crake Not a fan of changing the plan.

The old one gives us a chance to aquire a minion and it gives me a good feeling for having offered Pol Ning an out for her bad situation. All at the cost of a single talk that has no negative consequesces for us even if we fail to convince her.

The new one has as much effect as a failed attempt of the old plan at best, no positive outcome available.
So why?
 
[X] Previous Plan
-[X] Shrug at Lady Xue. Then go directly to Pol Ning and offer her a place in your court, where she will be appreciated and honored, rather than cut down socially for the sake of political expedience.


SUPERDELEGATES!

Edit: Man, I fucked that tally up.
 
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OOC: So yeah, it turns out blasphemy in the form convincing the kami to lie to the Emperor (not that the kami themselves see Pol Quo that way, they see the Mandate as hanging in the balance) carries hefty consequences.
Fuck you, Yi-Ti.
"Blasphemy" they say. Bah!
:anger:

I mean, to be fair, we'd all probably have a bad reaction and not easily forgive essentially an antichrist of a faith we truly believe in.
 
[X] Previous Plan
-[X] Shrug at Lady Xue. Then go directly to Pol Ning and offer her a place in your court, where she will be appreciated and honored, rather than cut down socially for the sake of political expedience.


Upon consideration Crake's point about BronzeTongue's plan has merit, and as I do not feel qualified to craft an alternative I will go with this instead.

Honestly this entire segment has gotten me far more worked up than it should have, I suppose I just do not like accidentally screwing good people over for no benefit.
 
[X] You will sidestep responsibility, at least as far as Lady Xue is concerned, and continue dealing with matters relating to the Golden Company.
-[X] You will try to meet with Pol An Ning at the conclusion of those matters and offer her a place in your court, where she would be honored and appreciated, not discarded the moment it becomes politically expedient.


Reposting the less OOC "drop everything!" vote, since that seems to fit the thread zeitgeist best.
 
What really pisses me off about this is her confident assertion that an alliance or at least cooperation would be in our mutual interest, then pretty much trying to entrap and guilt-trip us into a marriage alliance.

Fuck that noise.

[X] Plan Please Go Politely Screw Yourself
-[X] "I do not think that an alliance or overt cooperation would be in any of our interests. The matters of the Mandate of Heaven are, as far as I'm concerned, an internal matter of Yi-Ti and I think we can all agree that it is better if I not insert myself into those." // Ostensibly this is respecting Yi-Ti's independence in these matters, but the subtext is clear. You will not like it if Viserys involves himself in the civil war.
-[X] "I am in fact only here due to our shared former enemies, who I very much considered an internal matter of my realm that happened to play out in Yi-Ti. I would otherwise not have come here." // Reinforcing the notion that we are not interested in picking sides.
-[X] "My association with Pol Ning allowed me to share information in pursuit of resolving the latter issue without unduly inserting myself into the former. I apologise if I left you with a different impression of my intentions." // Directly stating that she can shove her offer of alliance.
-[X] "I will talk with Pol Ning to make amends to her in regards to the troubles caused by our association and I hope we can leave this matter behind us afterwards. I do not wish to cause controversy or unrest at your court." // Clearly stating that we will part on amicable terms with Pol Ning and trying to force our hand here will be unpleasant for them.
-[X] While her fate is ultimately of no great concern to you, Pol Ning helped you and is thus eligible to receive help in return. If you divest yourself of minions they should be either dead or not hold a grudge against you afterwards and you have little reason to bestow the former fate on her. She can pick as many options from the following list as she wants:
--[X] Gainful employment at your court.
--[X] A new face and identity.
--[X] Passage to a realm or plane of her choosing.
--[X] 5,000 IM to set up a new life.
--[X] Make it clear that these are not bribes or attempts to buy her, but compensation for the troubles caused to her by helping us.
 
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[X] Azel
Marginally better than Crake's latest plan.

Hey guys! Finally caught up again after what feels like a year. Congratz on beating Tiamat, that was a thrilling read.


Few odds and ends I feel like speaking about, feel free to ignore if you think it'll re-trigger a salt boil or something.

@DragonParadox Maybe it's because I became desensitized to your style due to the long hiatus, but looking at it with fresh eyes really drove home for me how noticeably your writing has improved DP. From characterizations to descriptions to flow you've really become a better writer this past year. Nice!

-I wanted to lean in on the pacing discussion and add my 2 cents, though I'm wary of opening old salt wounds, but heck here goes nothing: the narrative is still dragging a loooot (I read up on that bit of salt recently). I stopped following about a year ago around the Oldtown arc for unrelated reasons, but it really feels as if a lot more stuff should've happened in that OOC time. I was convinced I'd missed the Reconquest of Westeros, but I overestimated the thread's speed. I honestly don't know how to fix it entirely, but making actions last longer and pruning our narrative enemies might be a good idea. Make 3 or 6 month turn plans that are a lot more abstracted, so that DP doesn't have to narrate every single day in Viserys' schedule and instead narrates the choisest/more interesting bits. Would go a long way to making our research, nation, and naval building a lot more believable. The current setup, even through DP's insane update schedule, is just not enough to propel the quest to a speed faster than a snail's. I really, really want to reconquer Westeros before 2021.

Prune the narrative focus around our enemies too, as someone else mentioned. Keeping it to Westeros and the Deep Ones (for example) would go a long way to breathing some life into the epic wars and intrigues those enemies/challenges are supposed to represent. IMHO we don't belong in the interplanar war right now, we're America in 1914, with years of military-industrial buildup and social growth ahead of us to build before poking our noses into that conveniently stalemated mess, though perhaps a more appropriate date would be 1812. Crazy heaps of potential, but still ultimately a gnat at the feet of titans in the grander scheme of things. The plan to raid the City of Brass and draw a target on our backs by the Sultan within the next 6 months is craaazy, and not just IC. It will inexorably draw us deeper into the conflicts of the Spheres as retaliations, counter-retaliations, and targets of opportunity slow the narrative to an even further crawl; the Quest as a story will grow further fragmented, and unlike Tiamat's PoB forces this is an enemy we can't conveniently kill-off in the short term so it stops bothering us, at least not without breaking Suspension of Disbelief (Brass ritual/fortress be damned). A few volunteer corps to bloody the Imperial Navy should be our contribution to that war for the foreseeable future, keeping it short and sweet (maybe off-screen mostly and reading about it like reports from volunteer brigades in the Spanish Civil War). Interesting and with vested interests, but not as active a combatant.... because currently the narrative is growing frayed from so much stuff pulling it from all directions. On that note, I'm of the proably unpopular opinion we let Asmodeus have Slaver's Bay. Adding another companion/narrative-sponge at this juncture will fray the narrative even further, just as we finally got Tiamat/Faegon off our backs for the foreseeable future. Let's free some of DP's much needed RAM for stuff closer to home to be developed in much richer detail. Plus, Asmodeus' bound to turn that cesspit into an interesting nation to beat up post Westeros, and people have been complaining about pushover enemies. Having a hell-backed slaver's bay pulling a north korea would certainly be a way of adding some spice into the story without threatening companions with true death.

Someone touched this during that discussion, but it really rung a bell in me and it can't be stated enough: delegate more! The entire Plane of Water arc, for example, could've been delegated to an underling. As fun as it always is to see DP flesh out some world building, that really shouldn't have soaked up (heh) so much oxygen. The Thread is naturally inquisitive, so those ultimately secondary actions also tend to spiral fractally into further time sponges as we chase every plot-hook (or piece of scenery at this point) DP dangles over our heads. Thus 'simple' relatively self contained diplomatic missions end up spiraling into dragon-hunts, Anvil/mcguffin chasing, the inevitable interplanar bazaar interlude, and the inevitable interesting character recruitment... each update of course carrying further fractal spiral risks. Just a thing to keep in mind, though it's not only a player thing.

I've noticed DP is usually averse to narrating timeskips during an actual update, so almost all updates have this same chronological speed/feeling (usually that of a single day) that really ends up feeding into the whole sensation of time crawling by. More updates that take up the span of a month or heck at least a week, would perhaps lessen the feel that we're trapped in a perpetual Time Stop. I think the Warhammer Advisor Quest is an example that manages to strike this balance, where the MC still has intimate moments but the narrative can carry the reader across months without seeming heavy handed or cutting off the flow of the update. I'm told JK Rowling does this all the time and does it well for HP but honestly it's been a long time since I've read it.

... Also, The Ferryman is indeed a way better name than the Merling King. The more I think about it the more I like the first and the more ridiculous I think the latter is.

Just my 2 pesos from the peanut gallery. Anyway, it's good to be back...
This. This is a very valid post with good points and I like it. Not sure I agree with absolutely everything, but it is definitely great.
This has been in my quote box for a while. Oops.

This should be something we've already embraced. Just look at how we took Lys. We negotiated with the sister of the former Triarch, and then brutally had her and her family murdered via Aedon & loaned Erinyes.
That was very different, because we didn't want to negotiate with her. She was an enemy and an obstacle from the start, a leader of a slaver city and total asshat to boot.
Here we more or less accidentally fucked over a complete bystander. I mean, the bystander was already getting crushed at court, but we basically just made things worse for her for very little reason in the end.
Viserys ought to feel very differently about these two women.
Now, I think both you and @TalonofAnathrax were fond of weebness, so here's something amazing that I stumbled upon: Arrogant Young Master Template A Variation 4 | Royal Road
I am 99% certain I have ranted against weeb shit in this thread, and I tend to bitch about weeb imagery when it comes up in-story. Those "Waymar is peak anime" comments are jokingly said, but they are nevertheless not happy positive comments. Anyway, people like it and it doesn't dominate, so I live with it.

I won't go off on the shitty nature of weeb stuff again unless you actually want an essay on the manifold translation, storytelling, animation and cultural failures of weeb shit, but let's just say I'm not the target audience for this.
In any case I don't know the "Young Master" trope being played with, so I would doubtless fail to understand that story anyway.
 
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To illustrate my issues with this:

From Oranges position, it's pretty clear that they need us to acknowledge them in some fashion. Being recognized as someone worth talking to by foreign powers is a major bit of legitimacy a rebel can claim. Especially if the foreign leader can casually leave a two meter thick layer of dead people in his wake.

In reverse, acknowledging them in any way would damage our relationships with Blue and Yellow. For pretty much no gain on our side, except not having them screw over our patsy. This pretty much amounts to extorting diplomatic recognition from us. You do not extort emperors or dragons, let alone immortal dragon-emperors.

The last people who tried to drag Viserys into their internal politicking by pressuring him were the ruling family of Lys. Go and ask them how that went for them. Here are the skulls and some scrolls of Speak With Dead. Go on. Ask them.

It is better for all involved if we just politely part ways and ignore each other. Otherwise we might say or do things they will sorely regret.
 
Coinciding interests, partially compatible racial character.
You can say the same about pretty much any creature to one degree or another. They are certainly easier to work with then the average Red Dragon, who is a callous dick-waffle to everyone for no reason, but they are still bastards. The trick is bribery, keeping them entertained and being strong enough that they don't get weird ideas about changing the pecking order.

Which is nice and makes them valuable minions from our perspective, but to the average ruler, peasant or adventurer, they are only a lesser evil then others.
 
Wow this was some nice overnight discussion. I'm glad the current vote proved engaging.

Guess separating the main turn from interludes really did work, I was worried that there would be issues when we did the time jump back, but judging from the lively conversation on politics that is really not the case.
 
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