Sound mostly good, but the Forge was upgraded to be able to make up to CR15 creatures, so I think each pods defense, should include something of that power level.
I proposed a Half-dragon Kraken earlier, but we could also just use a Squid, Giant :: d20srd.org the Squid/Kraken pull the Whaler ship underoil, and then the Dolphins and Sharks move in for the kill.
The giant squid probably work better than the Kraken, it's 3 CR lower, so we can have more space for templates, but I really think a Kraken or giant squid, will do wonder to not just drive away but kill Whalers, and the Whales easily have the budget for it.
The issue with those is cost. You can get six CR 10 creatures for the cost of a single CR 15. It would be much easier to a pod to afford CR 10s while leaving them enough profits for other stuff, like important gear.
I'm also not very comfortable making anything stronger than CR 10 that won't be under our direct control.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 16, 2020 at 7:17 AM, finished with 116 posts and 17 votes.
[X] Dragon Diplomacy -[X] Offer wealth --[X] Pay 300,000 IM for the services of 8,000 fully equipped Sea Trolls and 160 fully equipped Sea Troll Clerics for a single campaign against the Deep Ones ---[X] Offer to craft 5 AdvancedGiganteanBladeleafPlantbloodManta Rays (CR 6) for him to serve as transports and warbeasts for his Sea Trolls. -- 6,000 IM --[X] Request for Althazi to lead his troops himself in this campaign ---[X] Offer to craft 100 DraconicScraghounds (CR 4) to serve as support for his Sea Trolls. -- Total Cost: 60,000 IM --[X] Offer a Valyrian Steel weapon for whichever champion Althazi favors most ----[X] GRAND TOTAL COST: 366,000 IM -[X] As a potential for future cooperation, discuss the grafts you're capable of growing in the Forges which Althazi may be interested in. -[X] This should be with the understanding that Althazi not infringe on our home plane after this transaction concludes, though he can visit if he chooses
No, not as Cleric Creatures. If we make them Sorcerer Creatures instead they could do it, but they lose a lot of good synergy that way and their Charisma is a lot lower than their Wisdom. Still might be worth it, though.
The issue with those is cost. You can get six CR 10 creatures for the cost of a single CR 15. It would be much easier to a pod to afford CR 10s while leaving them enough profits for other stuff, like important gear.
I'm also not very comfortable making anything stronger than CR 10 that won't be under our direct control.
The Fire Whales have ridiculous cash flow, a standard pod of 20 Fire Whales has a monthly income of 7000IM, we are planning to charge 10% per month, of what a creature cost to make in the Fungus Forge, that mean they would have to pay 2880 for a CR15 creature per month, that leave them enough cash for 8 CR10 creatures in addition, with them still having a few hundred IM left over each month.
And I don't think they need 8 CR10 creatures, in addition to a CR15 creature.
My proposal would be that for each pod, we make them a squad consisting of 3-5 of Azel's Bloodsharks, 1 of your Dolphins, and a Collossal or at least gargatuan squid, to drag the Whaler ships down under the oil.
The squid don't need to be CR 15 either, a Gargantuan Squid should be CR10, depending on whether a gargantuan Squid, is calculated to be enough to drag most Whaler ships down, we can choose whether to advance it to Collossal making it CR11, the Half-dragon template it need to function on the plane of fire add 2 to its CR, so a Gargantuan Squid would be CR12, while a Collossal Squid would be CR13.
If there's a +1CR template that will let the Squid live on the plane of fire, we can get it's CR down by 1, making it either CR11 or CR12, depending on whether it need to be Collossal, that's not that much above CR10, so hopefully you're less against that, than letting a CR15 out of our direct control, and it's a fair bit cheaper.
So my proposal for a pod guarding force, would be 1 Squid, 3-5 Bloodsharks(not sure how many are ideal) and 1 Dolphin.
Depending on how many Sharks we use, and what CR the Squid end up being, the Fire Whales will have to pay between, 2640IM(3 Sharks and a CR11 Squid) and 4340IM(5 Sharks and a CR13 Squid) that leave them between 2660IM(if we go with the expensive option) and 4360IM(if we go with the cheap option) a month to buy other things with, I think this is a reasonable median between not spending everything they earn on mercenaries, and getting sufficient protection.
I think the Whales would prefer something that can kill Whalers, otherwise the Whalers will just go after undefended pods, and while that might be good for our bottomline, the Whales don't want to just make the Whalers, the problem of their kin in other pods.
You are sorely underestimating how ugly four Burning Bloodsharks worth of distraction would be. They have AC 28, 175 HP, Fast Healing 4, DR 3/-, SR 16, a ton of immunities and pretty decent saves. Their offense is only decent, but unless you have a mid-level caster to deal with them, the regular Azer, Tiefling and Mephit crews we've usually seen in the PoF would have serious issues to put one of them down.
And this is before they get buffed with things like Haste, Shield of Faith and all those other goodies.
In return the whalers get... a few nice "how I lost my limb"-stories.
You are sorely underestimating how ugly four Burning Bloodsharks worth of distraction would be. They have AC 28, 175 HP, Fast Healing 4, DR 3/-, SR 16, a ton of immunities and pretty decent saves. Their offense is only decent, but unless you have a mid-level caster to deal with them, the regular Azer, Tiefling and Mephit crews we've usually seen in the PoF would have serious issues to put one of them down.
And this is before they get buffed with things like Haste, Shield of Faith and all those other goodies.
In return the whalers get... a few nice "how I lost my limb"-stories.
Yeah but Fire Whale gems are valuable enough, that the Efreeti captain certainly wont stop, just because some of his slaves lost their life or limbs, the profit margins for Whaling are good enough, that the only ways to remove a Whaler from play, is to either sink the ship or kill the captain, and I don't think the Bloodsharks will be killing many captains, at least not if the ship has the option of fleeing.
Now if we add a Gargantuan or Collossal Squid dragging the ship down into the Sea of oil, then I think there's a good chance of either killing the whole crew, or having the captain be the only survivor as he's forced to flee, and that's without counting the fact that the crew wont fight nearly so well underoil, while the Sharks and Dolphins will be in their elements.
And it's not like it's that expensive to make the Squid, if we keep it just Gargantuan, and use Infused Creature (3.5e Template) - Dungeons and Dragons Wiki instead of Half-dragon, then a Gargantuan Squid is only CR11, and a Gargantuan Squid, should be enough to yank most ships down below the oil, if we want it to be collossal for that extra dragging power, then it's a CR12 creature, either way I think the ability to drag the Whaler ships below the oil, is well worth the price.
Okay, but we're buying reagents for these in Vialesk... we need to start spending that Gold bullion piling up where possible and these creation costs tend to add up. Same with Necrocrafts.
Okay, but we're buying reagents for these in Vialesk... we need to start spending that Gold bullion piling up where possible and these creation costs tend to add up. Same with Necrocrafts.
@Goldfish The six other Mighty Mind Dragons seem fine. And several regular Mind Dragons a turn is fine. But one or the other. And it should never be more than a handful at a time, because we have to personally interact with every single one of them enough to ascertain their character.
This is absolutely essential and a hard and fast cap on how many we can practically grow rather than let be naturally born.
I prefer Giant squids, but that's a good plan B, Giant squids however have 2 advantages, 1 even if they can't sink a ship they will hold it in place, 2 Giant squids are animals, so we don't have to pay them, whereas Dragon Turtles are dragons, who will want as much pay as possible, Giant squids seem like they will do the job as well as Dragon turtles, and we get 100% of their wages, whereas with Dragon turtles, we will at most get 50%.
Also I think your Dragon turtles were upgraded a little too much, I have agreed with Goldfish, that CR15 is excessive for pod guards, which is why I'm keeping my Squids to either CR11 or CR12.
I also just love the imagine of a giant squid pulling a ship down, there's a reason sailors have always feared them, it's a very terrifying image.
Also just to play a little more with squids, what about a Collossal Deep DragonHalf-dragon Squid warbeast? We already have Landsharks, adding land Krakens would be fun.
@tarrangar, these squid don't have any ability to hold ships in place and have this weird special rule about severing their limbs, making me supremely opposed to use them as base for anything.
@Goldfish The six other Mighty Mind Dragons seem fine. And several regular Mind Dragons a turn is fine. But one or the other. And it should never be more than a handful at a time, because we have to personally interact with every single one of them enough to ascertain their character.
This is absolutely essential and a hard and fast cap on how many we can practically grow rather than let be naturally born.
Like I said, all of those are preliminary numbers. I just stuck 100 on a bunch of them out of habit and for price comparisons. Growing all of what I had listed would be completely excessive.
@tarrangar, these squid don't have any ability to hold ships in place and have this weird special rule about severing their limbs, making me supremely opposed to use them as base for anything.
That rule is basically that the squid is so big that you can't really attack the whole Squid, instead you have to target it's individual tentacles, and if you manage to cut off enough of them, it will retreat.
And it has regeneration as well, so even if it lose a few tentacles in combat, it will regrow 11 to 20 days.
Aside from that it has 10 tentacles when at full health, allowing it to make 10 attacks in a round, it's weird and has some vulnerabilities I will admit, but I think it's really suited for a pod guardian, the tentacle rules just make it more so, as even if it lose, it will have slowed the Whalers enough for the pod to escape, and it will have taken no permanent damage, it's perfect for slowing down the stronger Whalers, and good at killing the weaker ones.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 16, 2020 at 7:17 AM, finished with 116 posts and 17 votes.
[X] Dragon Diplomacy -[X] Offer wealth --[X] Pay 300,000 IM for the services of 8,000 fully equipped Sea Trolls and 160 fully equipped Sea Troll Clerics for a single campaign against the Deep Ones ---[X] Offer to craft 5 AdvancedGiganteanBladeleafPlantbloodManta Rays (CR 6) for him to serve as transports and warbeasts for his Sea Trolls. -- 6,000 IM --[X] Request for Althazi to lead his troops himself in this campaign ---[X] Offer to craft 100 DraconicScraghounds (CR 4) to serve as support for his Sea Trolls. -- Total Cost: 60,000 IM --[X] Offer a Valyrian Steel weapon for whichever champion Althazi favors most ----[X] GRAND TOTAL COST: 366,000 IM -[X] As a potential for future cooperation, discuss the grafts you're capable of growing in the Forges which Althazi may be interested in. -[X] This should be with the understanding that Althazi not infringe on our home plane after this transaction concludes, though he can visit if he chooses
For several hours more you discuss the history of the mortal world, the resources as your command willfully lingering upon the potential of the Flesh Forge to strengthen his forces. You are courteous but firm concerning the matter of actually sharing the lore of the old flesh-smiths and contrary to your past experiences with Relath, Althazi does accept the fact once it is made sufficiently clear that you will not shift your position an inch on the matter. Instead, you make the offer of mantas, for transport just as you had done for the sellswords in Vialesk, and something else that you hope might catch his fancy.
"Dragon-blooded troll-hounds," the wyrm chuckles, a sound like the echo of distant thunder. "Do you know that some might take it as an insult to the heritage of our line to mingle it with such beasts?"
"Some perhaps, mortal scholars, marid, surely not dragons," you counter, thinking of all the dragon-kin you have met since that first fey-touched drake in the Braavosi marshlands. "The line mingles rather easily to be kept sacred, and not only by the usual means..."
"That it does, though it is not to say it cannot be improved upon..."
You had considered offering him grafts for his armies, though you had not considered the dragon might wish them for himself. You had apparently underestimated the old dragon's daring and his patience in equal measure. "The specifics are best discussed another time, I think. I am no flesh-smith to give a full opinion and for all Lya has some experience in the matter she has taken it upon a path few others can fully tread."
At Althazi 's curious look she explains, it being openly known in Sorcerer's Deep, if not universally believed. "I have another body back home, experimenting with how to make use of Mammon's folly to pluck yet more of his servants from his grasp."
"Ah... so that is what it was, a silver thread parted in twain," the old wyrm rumbles in satisfaction. "A word of advice, oh sorceress bright in thine art. If I can perceive it then the enemy you aim to fight can as well, and they are far more adept at the twinning of minds. Likely they will be able to guess what it is from the start. Guard well thine divided forms lest they be used against you to the ruin of all. By relic and ritual they might yet unmake you or worse still make you anew in their twisted image."
Lya nods somberly, but adds: "So might they do to all of us given the chance, I just have more hands and eyes with which to work against them."
The moment of understanding against the greater horrors of the Spheres does not make you friends, it does not even assure lasting alliance, but it does make the road to it perhaps a touch smoother. When he pledges not to infringe upon the bounded seas you believe it more than if it had been pride of keeping it alone that weighted those scales. Though in the end by canny bargaining and clever argument on his side you pay thirty thousand marks more than you had hoped out of the bargain you count it all well spent, your purpose here fulfilled.
Pay 330,000 IM for the services of 8,000 fully equipped Sea Trolls and 160 fully equipped Sea Troll Clerics for a single campaign against the Deep Ones
Request for Althazi to lead his troops himself in this campaign
Offer to craft 100 DraconicScraghounds (CR 4) to serve as support for his Sea Trolls. -- Total Cost: 60,000 IM
Offer a Valyrian Steel weapon for whichever champion Althazi favors most
GRAND TOTAL COST: 396,000 IM
What do you do next?
[] Visit the Emirate of Mardja, inquire about setting up a Planar Terminus station there
[] Look further for mercenary companies capable of effectively fighting Deep Ones
-[] Asking around in Mardja seems a good start, what with us having made a defense pact
[] We already got the crafters and Enchanters from Vialesk and Hampa, now would be the time to try and get more from:
-[] Dalaqua (focus: crafters/artisans, also any enchanters we can get)
-[] Zerbat (focus: artisans, also any enchanters we can get)
-[] Dawa (focus: crafters (fishnets), also any enchanters we can get)
-[] Kela (focus: crafters (massive amounts), also any enchanters we can get)
[] Look into the situation between the Emirate of Kela and the Wyrm Galzerai - learn the truth about their relationship insofar as we can, there is a possibility of us manning a rescue mission of sorts, in order to get Kela's resource support
[] Look into the possibility of bringing more Marid Emirates into your war on Deep Ones:
-[] Dawa (fishnet-wielding units, said to have been excelling in the last war)
-[] Kela (huge amounts of crafters, so possibly war-machines of sorts..?)
[] Write in
OOC: The first time in a long time Viserys lost social combat, if only just, I figured an extra 10% on top of your preferred price would not be worth putting to a vote. BTW, for anyone wondering why the dragon was paying so much attention to Lya as to use True Seeing and roll skill checks to figure her out, it's because he could read Viserys' body language enough to get a feeling for their relationship.
Might as well make Lindworms by sticking Half-Dragon on a Titanoboa. They could just eat the captain and then constrict around the ship until it breaks.
Might as well make Lindworms by sticking Half-Dragon on a Titanoboa. They could just eat the captain and then constrict around the ship until it breaks.
