I am waiting impatiently for things to turn sour. I have that spot ready for him.

[X] Goldfish
Althazi: "...are you undressing me with your eyes...?"

Viserys: "No...I'm merely admiring your armor...and sizing you up for your trophy stand...."
Interlude next, I'll try to get three updates total today, but no promises.
Don't push yourself on our account, DP. A two update day is plenty. Maybe the interlude can have an overnight vote included?
 
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There are rituals we'd be willing to trade, though that does need to be pruned so we don't give away important shit.

No trading heart tree rituals, Valyrian steel, runecrafting, etc.
Heart tree rituals I would be ready to trade, simply because while it might be annoying for us, having more people growing Heart trees would benefit the old gods, and I'm ready to face some annoyance to help them.
 
@Goldfish, I'm sorry, but this is a flawed plan. The Dragon will undoubtedly attempt social combat to get Lya to geek out and accidentally spill some big hint or fundamental theoretical principle behind Runecrafting or the Moonchaser's drive, and there a decent odds that he'll succeed.

Furthermore, I'd tell him that we tricked Mammon into removing his own curse from his hide as part of the bargain (AFAIK we didn't purify it ourselves or anything). It's a friendly gesture, it doesn't cost us much, and it makes us look good.

EDIT: Ideally I would hint at other types of Lore that we could sell him. Plant-forging Lore, perhaps?

Not really, he has chosen curiosity. He saw all the strange magic and asked about it. If you guys can't reach and agreement he will probably just swim away. There has been no draconic threat displays invoked.
We all showed up with a heavily armed personal guard and enough firepower to conquer the Seven Kingdoms, but I guess that that's just the status quo in Dragon relations :D
 
@Goldfish, I'm sorry, but this is a flawed plan. The Dragon will undoubtedly attempt social combat to get Lya to geek out and accidentally spill some big hint or fundamental theoretical principle behind Runecrafting or the Moonchaser's drive, and there a decent odds that he'll succeed.

Furthermore, I'd tell him that we tricked Mammon into removing his own curse from his hide as part of the bargain (AFAIK we didn't purify it ourselves or anything). It's a friendly gesture, it doesn't cost us much, and it makes us look good.

EDIT: Ideally I would hint at other types of Lore that we could sell him. Plant-forging Lore, perhaps?


We all showed up with a heavily armed personal guard and enough firepower to conquer the Seven Kingdoms, but I guess that that's just the status quo in Dragon relations :D
I trust Lya not to fall for that, especially with Viserys right beside her. They should be in contact via Telepathic Bond, too. And if not, Viserys can easily have Varys warn her, or simply interrupt before she gives away too much info.
 
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Heart tree rituals I would be ready to trade, simply because while it might be annoying for us, having more people growing Heart trees would benefit the old gods, and I'm ready to face some annoyance to help them.
I'd be against it, mainly because I don't trust people not to abuse it. Our governors are one thing, they're under our direct jurisdiction. Some random dragon far outside our influence is another matter entirely.
EDIT: Ideally I would hint at other types of Lore that we could sell him. Plant-forging Lore, perhaps?
His territory doesn't have leylines he could use to make any Forges as far as we're aware of. That plant forging lore is completely useless in absence of a forge. I'd expect him to look at it and then go, "How is this meant to be worth anything to me?"
 
His territory doesn't have leylines he could use to make any Forges as far as we're aware of. That plant forging lore is completely useless in absence of a forge. I'd expect him to look at it and then go, "How is this meant to be worth anything to me?"
I thought the forges were powered by Leylines, but that the technical aspects didn't entirely rely on them. Don't we have all these centuries-old expert Flesh-Forgers who've been greedily drinking in Knowledge from the Greendream?
@DragonParadox, does Viseys think that his Fleshforger minions have any interesting technical intel to sell? Or perhaps some Valyrian construct designs that don't entirely rely on live babies for raw material?
 
I'd be against it, mainly because I don't trust people not to abuse it. Our governors are one thing, they're under our direct jurisdiction. Some random dragon far outside our influence is another matter entirely.
Viserys: *gives a ritual to grow Heart Trees to a 3rd party*
3rd party: *does some heretical shit on par with Warlocks of Qarth to the trees*
Viserys:
 
I thought the forges were powered by Leylines, but that the technical aspects didn't entirely rely on them. Don't we have all these centuries-old expert Flesh-Forgers who've been greedily drinking in Knowledge from the Greendream?
@DragonParadox, does Viseys think that his Fleshforger minions have any interesting technical intel to sell? Or perhaps some Valyrian construct designs that don't entirely rely on live babies for raw material?
I mean sure, you could build a forge outside of Prime Material, but it's not going to have a Genius Loci bound to it, and it wouldn't have a convenient Weirwood attached to keep the Genius Loci under control. There's a lot of work involved in setting up a Fungus Forge that the Old Gods mercifully spared us from.

Look at it this way -- if we were the ones trying to set up a Fungus Forge outside of Prime Material, would you be arguing for us to be able to bypass the probably considerable progress to set something like that up in absence of ley lines?

And all that aside, I don't really want to give this dragon plant-forging lore in the first place. I'm already nervous about his Sea Trolls, and I don't want to give him more means of raiding us in the future.
 
I'd be against it, mainly because I don't trust people not to abuse it. Our governors are one thing, they're under our direct jurisdiction. Some random dragon far outside our influence is another matter entirely.
If he do that we have a reason to kill him, if he don't the old gods get extra Heart trees.

But ultimately I'm just against the idea that we own Heart tree lore, it belongs to the old gods, while I'm certainly up for profiting from selling it, as the old gods wont care about us making a profit, I don't believe we have the right to forbid someone from growing Heart trees, that's the right of the old gods, it's them you ultimately have to negotiate with, we are merely the middleman, and while a good middleman can certainly seek to profit from the job, not putting the seller in contact with prospective clients, make you a bad middleman.
 
If he do that we have a reason to kill him, if he don't the old gods get extra Heart trees.

But ultimately I'm just against the idea that we own Heart tree lore, it belongs to the old gods, while I'm certainly up for profiting from selling it, as the old gods wont care about us making a profit, I don't believe we have the right to forbid someone from growing Heart trees, that's the right of the old gods, it's them you ultimately have to negotiate with, we are merely the middleman, and while a good middleman can certainly seek to profit from the job, not putting the seller in contact with prospective clients, make you a bad middleman.
We don't own the lore, but we have every right to decide not to sell it.

Ultimately I don't see it as a good trade for us to sell the lore to those who might potentially abuse it. We're already growing plenty of trees for the Old Gods, they're fine. We don't need convoluted schemes to squeeze every bit of potential HD out of everyone and every thing.
 
so back again with random questions while catching up (at the start of month 7 now) but i just wanted to know if the map of sorcerers deep has had any major updates recently becouse the last change for it's post was in januari 2019 according to the post. anyway back to binging
 
We don't own the lore, but we have every right to decide not to sell it.

Ultimately I don't see it as a good trade for us to sell the lore to those who might potentially abuse it. We're already growing plenty of trees for the Old Gods, they're fine. We don't need convoluted schemes to squeeze every bit of potential HD out of everyone and every thing.
If people don't ask for it we don't need to offer it, but if they ask for it, I think we should at least ask the old gods about it, because growing Heart trees are ultimately their equivalent of worship, and when your allies ask for the ways to worship your gods, it's kind of rude to your gods, not to give them the opportunity to get new worshippers.

Although I of course far prefer just offering to grow Heart Trees for our allies, for a modest fee and only with sacrifices legal by imperial law, if we sell the lore to this dragon, he might sacrifice innocents to grow Heart trees.
 
If people don't ask for it we don't need to offer it, but if they ask for it, I think we should at least ask the old gods about it, because growing Heart trees are ultimately their equivalent of worship, and when your allies ask for the ways to worship your gods, it's kind of rude to your gods, not to give them the opportunity to get new worshippers.

Although I of course far prefer just offering to grow Heart Trees for our allies, for a modest fee and only with sacrifices legal by imperial law, if we sell the lore to this dragon, he might sacrifice innocents to grow Heart trees.
We have radically different perspectives here.

We are not the Old Gods' servants, we're their allies. And more than that, they and Bloodraven trust us to handle this lore at our own discretion. There are no complaint or requests from them to share their Heart Tree lore precisely because there is a history of trees being defiled if in the wrong hands. Viserys on the other hand is trusted.

We are under absolutely no obligation to share this lore with anyone.
 
@Duesal, I'm not talking about setting up a Forge. I'm talking about the internal specs for one individual type of bio-construct or poison weapon or something. He clearly has his own type of bioengineering, so he'll then work on adapting that to his way of doing things (presumably he'll make it part of his current symbiotic and self-replicating enhancement organism or something, I dunno).
 
@Duesal, I'm not talking about setting up a Forge. I'm talking about the internal specs for one individual type of bio-construct or poison weapon or something. He clearly has his own type of bioengineering, so he'll then work on adapting that to his way of doing things (presumably he'll make it part of his current symbiotic and self-replicating enhancement organism or something, I dunno).
This is valuable information but not so valuable as to be overly detrimental to us. He can't employ it on as wide a scale as we can but he will get some very good use out of it in selective amounts. I agree with this idea.
 
Interlude DCCIII: On the Edge of the World
On the Edge of the World

Sixth Day of the Twelfth Month 293 AC

Sea Dragon Point, the North


Mors Umber was not in the habit of second guessing his new liege lord when it came to finding haunts, wights and other horrors, he'd seen enough up in the Frostfangs to know the King had a nose for it. But as he looked back at his traveling companions on the windswept sore of the Sunset Sea he had to wonder about how they'd been chosen for the job.

Three witches and some sort of foreign warlock who blotted out the bloody sun wherever he trod, well... alright, more like dimmed the light of midday a touch. He must still be training, the Northerner thought with a bit of a chuckle at his own jest. "Is there anything you can do to not send most godsfearing folk drawing steel or run into the woods?" he asked, not expecting much.

"We... all possess glamours Lord... Crowfood," the sorcerer said with just enough of a pause to draw a spark of anger without giving proper cause to take offense.

"There's witches growing in the trees these days, if you hadn't noticed," Mors replied. "and that's not just in the King's fine orchards, but out in the woods and hills. If some woods witch gets an eyefull of you looking like a silk merchant's ghost come to haunt them all with shit deals from the grave..."

The gold-haired girl giggled. What was her name again... ah Goldenhammer, that was it on account of being some sort of enchantress. Sadly, Mors did not have any more time to admire the sound of her voice or the look of her smile because the wizard took the moment to turn into a snake. "Will this be a better disguise then?" he hissed.

"I don't think that species is native to the North," Lady Mia said tightly. Looks like I'm not the only one who can do without the bloody... snake. Mors wondered if this Tor being able to change into a snake's skin in the blink of an eye said something about the sort of man he was, but he thought better of that. The pair of snake-men he'd met back in Sorcerer's Deep were as straightforward as a man could ask for.

"We don't need to all be wandering around talking to people either," the the last and quietest of the sorceresses spoke up. "Tor can keep watch on the tower itself and report if there is anything unusual going on with it while the rest of us split up to talk to the folk hereabouts. I can go with Leila, Lord Umber can accompany Mia, so there is someone skilled at the sword and someone knowledgeable in magic with both groups."

"I ain't Lord Umber lass, that's the Greatjon, Old Gods give him many more years of lordship, I'm just Crowfood," Mors replied. "Still, that sounds like a fair pairing to me..."

The wizard in snake's skin hisses his agreement.

***​

Most folk thought Last Hearth was the end of the world, and it was hard to argue with them in some ways with nothing but the Wall and the wildlings further north, if you didn't count Thennhold which was hardly known outside the Thenns themselves, but Crowfood figured the lonely shore around Sea Dragon Point had a fairer claim to the title. After all, at least there was the Wall between Umber lands and the damn wildlings, but there wasn't anything between here and the Iron Islands except the sea.

The Fisher Kings had ruled here once, then sworn their oaths to the Starks of Winterfell, but they were long gone, and the only fish the smallfolk cared about were the ones that got hauled in with the evening tide to add to the poor harvest of the stony earth. They didn't much care for foreigners either since foreigners usually meant Ironborn, but they were poor enough that you could usually buy tales from someone who looked down on their luck and so they did, going from visage to village talking to farmers, fishers and hunters that set snares through the empty woods until they came to a blind net weaver whose fingers still knew the craft.

"Salt wives' Lament ye say... eye, there was a fair anchorage there in my day, but 'twas bad luck to use it unless there was at least one woman aboard, these days no one uses it 'cause they're afraid of the ghosts getting stronger. Fools I say, stronger ain't different in their hearts and whose to say the dead can't be kindly, eh?" the old woman asked loud enough that half the village could hear her.

"You've been there before?" Mia asked. "Would you guide us if we paid you?"

"And what sort of pay would that be?" the net weaver asked, clinking the coppers she'd already been paid in hand.

"Your sight," Mia replied softly.

OOC: I hope all the set-up chapters are not making things drag.
 
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I mean sure, you could build a forge outside of Prime Material, but it's not going to have a Genius Loci bound to it, and it wouldn't have a convenient Weirwood attached to keep the Genius Loci under control. There's a lot of work involved in setting up a Fungus Forge that the Old Gods mercifully spared us from.

It would be impossible to replicate fleshh-forge without a leyline, nexus without re--writing the plans almost for it from first principles. The ley lines are important.
 
Three witches and some sort of foreign warlock who blotted out the bloody sun where he trod, well alright more like dimmed the light of midday a touch. He must still be training, the northerner thought with a bit of a chuckle at his own jest. "Is there anything you can do not to send most godsfearing folk draw steel or run into the woods?" he asked, not expecting much.
Okay now I'm curious, how does shadow Tor look in his usual disguises?
 
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