- Location
- Germany
I think we recently unlocked them by brushing up on Saenena's research.
We could make some now.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
We could make some now.
- Location
- Germany
- Location
- Argentina
Still not hearing any kind of argument in favor of them
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Do we have a plan for the PR problems we talked about last time this came up? Not that the optics are a reason to avoid ever making them, but if that worshipful fixation on dragons comes through in our version it could be trouble.
Viserys has a lot of social credit, but he's still emperor of a nation with a huge population of first generation freed slaves. They'll get twitchy about it, and the less we do to remove that feature or otherwise reassure them the more credit we'll burn just having them around.
Viserys has a lot of social credit, but he's still emperor of a nation with a huge population of first generation freed slaves. They'll get twitchy about it, and the less we do to remove that feature or otherwise reassure them the more credit we'll burn just having them around.
- Location
- Germany
We could use some minor Clerics of Viserys though, from our next Mythic tier onwards.
That came up too.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
@DragonParadox, can you make my Forge Mechanics page into an information post? I've included all the information we have on the Forges, how they operate, and the various orders we placed last month.
I keep a link in my signature, but it might be easier for folks to find as an information post.
I keep a link in my signature, but it might be easier for folks to find as an information post.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm not particularly eager to recreate Kobolds, but if we do, there shouldn't be any issue with them being overly worshipful of Dragons. IIRC, that's a cultural trait rather than an inborn instinct.
- Location
- Germany
Kobolds are versatile, make good minions, grow and reproduce rather fast, have a hand for engineering, mining and industry in general, can be extremely loyal if treated well...
Also, why not? Nobody seems to mind the creation of full on True Dragons, so I'm not seeing the issue with creating some Kobolds as settlers and general purpose minions.
Also, why not? Nobody seems to mind the creation of full on True Dragons, so I'm not seeing the issue with creating some Kobolds as settlers and general purpose minions.
It's not about the utility, it's about how we want to reassure people we aren't going to create an underclass of purpose built slave creatures. This is an issue that will deeply touch one of the foundational cultural values and shared experiences of most imperial citizens.
If it's worth the trouble we should do it, but it'd be foolish to not pay attention to the risks and costs of doing so. If we proceed we need a solid plan on how we'll influence the politics of it if we can't remove the feature.
It's one of those basic precepts of dnd parties writ large; no loot is worth losing party cohesion. Just letting critters loose who openly worship us as a god will create religious schismatics internally, increase resistance and unrest in Westeros, and shake the trust we've built with the legions and the Imperium as a whole.
Ideally we never want to create a situation where the average person even needs to think on the idea that we make good decisions, and have their best interests in mind. I'm not saying we should write them off completely, but we need to have a game plan and be on top of the whole proceeding.
I can't find anything specifying it as a racial trait, but I'm pretty sure it was brought up as one last time we talked about it. Maybe something to do with the creation process? If it doesn't then all of this is moot, but I thought not knowing how to deal with this problem was part of why we haven't made them yet.
- Location
- France
Kobold are infamously the most OP race in all of D&D 3.5 (arguably).
Creating kobolds will immediately require a bunch of WOG relating to True Dragon cheese that was meant for boss monster but can now be applied to PC minions.
Edit : to be clear, I don't really want to create Kobolds. Although it would be cool to use them as handlers for our island of Valyrian Dragons... But now we have a Legion order for that!
Creating kobolds will immediately require a bunch of WOG relating to True Dragon cheese that was meant for boss monster but can now be applied to PC minions.
Edit : to be clear, I don't really want to create Kobolds. Although it would be cool to use them as handlers for our island of Valyrian Dragons... But now we have a Legion order for that!
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Done, thanks again for organizing all this.
- Location
- Germany
The purpose build slave race that works tirelessly without complaint or payment would be the Leshies.
I would simply pay the kobolds for whatever jobs they do.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'm not opposed to creating them, but if we do it, we need to do it right. Kobolds can be really obnoxious, so indoctrinating them into the Imperial culture is important.
Lethy are not really a slave underclass, they get paid, at least the ones that cared about such things do, and if any of them get bored of material existence they can just walk into a forge and recycle their body into a new leshy while they join the Greendream again.
- Location
- Germany
Well, obviously. Dumping your children wrought by SCIENCE into the wilderness to fend for themselves is how you get killed by them.
Which makes the argument about Kobolds becoming a slave underclass for no reason hold even less water.
My point was less about morality (though I do have issues with the idea of things that can think being produced with built in slave collars) and more about appearances.
The truth is only as important as it is believed in cases like this. If we make a species that openly worships Viserys as a god from the proverbial womb, and don't take some steps to mitigate the political fallout, their actual level of freedom or payment won't matter.
Viserys has enough good will with his own people that they wouldn't immediately flip out, but just dumping them out there would seriously lean on it.
Assuming that this applies at all anyway. If goldfish is right then this isn't an issue. I don't have any problems with Kobolds specifically, I just want to avoid creating a mess we'll need to waste time cleaning up later.
@DragonParadox would fleshforged Kobolds have any inherit servility towards dragons, or is that a cultural thing?
[X] goldfish
- Location
- Germany
Okay... what?
Where are you getting the "inbuilt slave collar" from? I've mentioned no such thing at all.
Where are you getting the idea that they will be "just dumped out there"? I do have some plans, but they rely on larger populations and 10,000 units is a good trial run if you make screws, not expensive sentients.
Lastly, a lot of culture and attitude information is not transferable to ASWAH. Our kobolds wouldn't live as oppressed and ignored gutter rats for millennia and turn largely CE for it. They would grow up in imperial culture as respected citizens and likely tend slightly towards LN.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Pretty sure @BronzeTongue was commenting on whether or not the Kobolds would instinctively see Dragons as their gods, and if they did, would basically obey them as if they were slaves by default. That shouldn't be a concern, though.
10,000 Kobolds is way too many, though. Even at just 1/4 CR each, meaning we could grow four of them for just 225 IM, that would be 525,500 IM. Not only is that a huge amount of money to spend on Kobolds of all things, but it would simply be too many to properly introduce to Planetos at any given time. There aren't sufficient facilities to care for them or things for them to do. They'd end up running wild with little supervision.
I would much rather grow a smaller number, something like 1,000, then properly educate and acculturate them. Those 1,000 could then serve as the nucleus for future Kobold society, teaching those who come later, either through natural hatchings or additional Forge-grown generations, how to be, well, Imperial Kobolds. They reproduce and mature extremely fast, after all.
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Kobolds to not inherently see dragons as gods, if they did the Valyrians would never have used them in however limited a manner.
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- Location
- florida
Alien hive mind god things. Very relatable to mortals, very understandable.
I figured the leshy consisted mostly of green dreamers who wanted a break from the green dream, or just wanted some legs to stretch after however many millenia as formless spirits.
Edit:
Kobolds are cool, and super useful.
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I have good memories of Kobold's from what little D&D I played prior to this quest. So as per the QM's last post there is no risk of them worshipping us out of the box, I would like to make a few of them, provided a decent plan is written up for it.
[X] goldfish
[X] goldfish