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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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egoo said:
@DragonParadox, it contains the recollections of what the Hellven was before it all gone to shit, yes?
Would it make sense then to grant a minor bonus on knowledge chaecks related to Good Outsiders and (a miniscule one) on Empire of Dawn?
I don't see much point to give mechanical bonuses to this, it is not a reference-book of magical beasts, nor a scripture with secrets of countering mind-affecting attacks, to really do that, imo.
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It contains an account of the Empire of Dawn it's focus is very much on the material mortal world though the perspective may be that of immortals.
 
Azel said:
@Goldfish, since I promised to remind you, next Fungus Forge batch was meant to include some shadow cats.
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Thanks for the reminder. I've added them to the proposed creations section of my Forge Orders page.

EDIT: We'll probably add 4 Racial HD to them when we grow the Shadow Cats. As Plant Creatures, that will only increase their CR from 5 to 6, and it will help them a lot, especially in HP and skill ranks.
 
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Azel said:
No, it focuses mostly on the Empire of the Dawn on Planetos. If you want accounts of the Fall of Heaven, you are better looking in Heavens Shore.
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DragonParadox said:
It contains an account of the Empire of Dawn it's focus is very much on the material mortal world though the perspective may be that of immortals.
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...okay, now I have even less of an idea of who, and why, sent us this.
The reaction of the Archon carrying it doesn't reassure me.

Ah, the sweet sweet taste of "I don't even want to deal with this bullshit but we are ears-deep already".
:V

For real though, I guess either someone from Axis, an ancient Age-of-Dawn-old-entity (restricted in how much it can interact with the world, or something), or...
yeah, pretty much it for my guesses.
:/

Still, the thing is as a unique compilation of lore as it gets.
It'll surely be of use someday.

Worst case, we can trade these stories.
@DragonParadox, I dare to assume these would cost a shitload to Fey, yes? :V
 
@egoo, you are definitely aware of at least Yrael and probably quite a few of his allies having lived through the fall of the Empire of the Dawn. They just don't like to talk about it. After seeing Heaven and reading 3 books worth of Depression, Viserys gets why.
 
Azel said:
@egoo, you are definitely aware of at least Yrael and probably quite a few of his allies having lived through the fall of the Empire of the Dawn. They just don't like to talk about it. After seeing Heaven and reading 3 books worth of Depression, Viserys gets why.
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...are you saying I'm overthinking this?
Because I'm sleepy and I can't tell right now either way :V

G'night everyone.
 
egoo said:
...okay, now I have even less of an idea of who, and why, sent us this.
The reaction of the Archon carrying it doesn't reassure me.

Ah, the sweet sweet taste of "I don't even want to deal with this bullshit but we are ears-deep already".
:V

For real though, I guess either someone from Axis, an ancient Age-of-Dawn-old-entity (restricted in how much it can interact with the world, or something), or...
yeah, pretty much it for my guesses.
:/

Still, the thing is as a unique compilation of lore as it gets.
It'll surely be of use someday.

Worst case, we can trade these stories.
@DragonParadox, I dare to assume these would cost a shitload to Fey, yes? :V
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I'm pretty sure the Empire of the Dawn was a large polity which probably controlled a significant portion of Planetos, was fairly advanced as such things are measured, and was highly magical. They were powerful, knowledgeable, and had ruled for thousands of years, yet they still perished, their empire crumbled to nothing, their great works forgotten, and nothing but the vaguest hints of legends of the time remaining to be told. As we recently learned from R'hllor, that first surprise Long Winter, the one that came before the Long Night 8,000 years ago, and maybe even before the one which saw the Red Dragons fight off the Others and other Void-tainted minions, really fucked over the Empire of the Dawn. It was the first real Planetosi Winter as they are understood now, but with no one prepared for it, no food stores readied for the lean times, no fuel to keep the fires burnings, etc.

Basically, I think the books are a lesson that shit is cyclical and that no matter how far we come, how great the Imperium ends up being, it will eventually fall, as all things do. But we aren't supposed to let that discourage us, because there is worth in the doing and what falls will always rise again.

It's just another check mark in the Earthdawn/Shadowrun cycles of magic thing I've mentioned on and off throughout the quest. For anyone familiar with the settings, we're sorta rolling into the Sixth World now, the previous Age of Heroes was the 4th World (Long Night Era), and the 2nd World would have been the time of the Empire of the Dawn.
 
Goldfish said:
I'm pretty sure the Empire of the Dawn was a large polity which probably controlled a significant portion of Planetos, was fairly advanced as such things are measured, and was highly magical. They were powerful, knowledgeable, and had ruled for thousands of years, yet they still perished, their empire crumbled to nothing, their great works forgotten, and nothing but the vaguest hints of legends of the time remaining to be told. As we recently learned from R'hllor, that first surprise Long Winter, the one that came before the Long Night 8,000 years ago, and maybe even before the one which saw the Red Dragons fight off the Others and other Void-tainted minions, really fucked over the Empire of the Dawn. It was the first real Planetosi Winter as they are understood now, but with no one prepared for it, no food stores readied for the lean times, no fuel to keep the fires burnings, etc.

Basically, I think the books are a lesson that shit is cyclical and that no matter how far we come, how great the Imperium ends up being, it will eventually fall, as all things do. But we aren't supposed to let that discourage us, because there is worth in the doing and what falls will always rise again.

It's just another check mark in the Earthdawn/Shadowrun cycles of magic thing I've mentioned on and off throughout the quest. For anyone familiar with the settings, we're sorta rolling into the Sixth World now, the previous Age of Heroes was the 4th World (Long Night Era), and the 2nd World would have been the time of the Empire of the Dawn.
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While cycles are a significant part of how the tides of magic ebb and flow I can say with OOC that I did not design a world that makes perfect cycles, ones where you cannot change anything lasting. That is just naratively unsatisfying much like the idea of an over-god.
 
DragonParadox said:
While cycles are a significant part of how the tides of magic ebb and flow I can say with OOC that I did not design a world that makes perfect cycles, ones where you cannot change anything lasting. That is just naratively unsatisfying much like the idea of an over-god.
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Didn't doubt ya for a second, DP. Just speculating on the message the author of those books was trying to convey. ;)
 
egoo said:
...okay, now I have even less of an idea of who, and why, sent us this.
The reaction of the Archon carrying it doesn't reassure me.

Ah, the sweet sweet taste of "I don't even want to deal with this bullshit but we are ears-deep already".
:V

For real though, I guess either someone from Axis, an ancient Age-of-Dawn-old-entity (restricted in how much it can interact with the world, or something), or...
yeah, pretty much it for my guesses.
:/

Still, the thing is as a unique compilation of lore as it gets.
It'll surely be of use someday.

Worst case, we can trade these stories.
@DragonParadox, I dare to assume these would cost a shitload to Fey, yes? :V
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This doesn't feel like the sort of thing we should trade even if we could. It feels disrespectful to the contents of the books, and the special sort of courage each author needed to write about what they lost for the sake of future generations.

Normally I'd be all over maximizing our returns, but this deserves a bit of reverence if anything ever did.
 
@DragonParadox, is there any progress on:
1. Glyra's troupe growing
2. The joint court of the Pech and Bulabar
3. Moonsong getting her own court
4. The Queen Rhaella getting her own court
?
 
egoo said:
[] Meet with the Candlekeep Courtier, hash out what he needs for him and his Fey to be more effective at the task we put him on - we are talking gear, we are talking consumables, we are talking potential House of Mirrors support.
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@Goldfish, good enough?
egoo said:
[] Arrange a personal meeting(s) with the remaining 2 rulers of Lorath - attempt to persuade them into joining the Empire, claiming economic growth and stability as reasons, grease the wheels where necessary by bribes.
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@Crake, good enough?

*sleps *
 
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Rabble and Rule: Voices and Councils in the Empire
  • Informational
    • I promised an informational post about Voices and Councils, and here it is:

    Rabble and Rule : Voices and Councils in the Empire

    ​

    Among the many other changes brought to you by Imperial conquest and the passing of your late Lord father, you must be prepared for a new challenge : peasants in politics. The three-headed Dragon has a fondness for three-headed leadership, and one of these heads will be chosen by your lessers. These mewling fools who failed to secure real influence can now select a full third of every single district Council, the elected Voice who is meant to represent the interests of the commoners living in your lands. How does this work, and what does this mean? In this TED talk lesson in leadership, I will explain the dangers of mob rule and the ways for proper Lords to keep them in their place. Your late father would have taught you this in due time, young Lord - today shall simply be an accelerated course! This very night, you shall be able to speak with confidence to even the wildest Voice, knowing the precise extent of their relevance despite their lies and tendency to pretend at actual importance !

    The Voices :
    • A Voice is a mere burgher with the cunning to convince his fellow voters to choose him over another. His inferior breeding and poor education make him unsuited to politics, but his base instincts may lead him to attempt to use his new "position" to oppose you. Have no fear : despite their often shockingly ambitious promises, he is in fact little more than an advisor to you. An advisor that you can ignore, send away from your sight, and whose every decision is submitted to the vote of the district council which can be overruled by proper local Lords like you.
    • A Voice is useful to Lords who need to know the feelings and desires of the peasantry and small merchants. However, beware their tendency towards hyperbole and alarmist rhetoric! They must campaign for election, and therefore cannot access proper long-term thought befitting of a true leader. In the aggregate this can lead to interesting insight into the limited minds of the commoners, and can even force some to consult various learned men and produce something resembling useful ideas. Learning to spot these amidst the usual drivel spouted by mob-chosen Voices is a skill that any truly perfect Lord should develop.
    • A Voice is a third of a district Council, but it can be chosen to represent the district Council upon the County Council or even in the Crown Council. Beware these Voices, for they may try to turn other people who actually matter against you! Of course as you will see, a proper Lord should be able to stop a district Council from selecting a problematic Voice.
    • A Voice is elected by those peasants with the skill and discipline to own some small amount of property. However, it seems likely that someday the entire peasantry shall be given the right to vote! Beware the worsening of the flaws of Voices which such a shift will surely cause.
    The Councils :
    • The local district Council exists to advise and aid you, my Lord! The local Voice, the local Lawman head, and the local Clerk are always on it, but sometimes a Scholarum representative may be included. Together they take the burden of petitions from you, can aid you in drafting local laws and taxes, and can participate in the organization of local events.
    • The local Council can act in your stead should you be deceased (permanently or temporarily) or should you be absent.
    • The local Council are advisors : you can of course overrule them at every turn should you need to keep them in their place!
    • The local Council can whithold its approval from your decisions, but cannot countermand them. It can clarify them, but you can of course veto their clarification. They can offer suggestions, which you may of course refuse. Should they suggest otherwise, they are liars and traitors!
    • You cannot forbid the Council from meeting, nor can you refuse an elected Voice (no matter how stupid they may be). Thankfully you do not have to participate in Council meetings.
    • A Council holds a very important role : they dispense justice. Thankfully the head of the Lawmen is always on the Council, and can bring some proper legal experience and knowledge to an especially uneducated Voice who would attempt to disrupt proper Lordly justice.
    You see, young Lord, you have nothing to fear from these Voices! Indeed, sometimes their advice may even be useful. Merchants and traders are generally elected, and they may have heard some news that your own faithful advisors may not have received yet. It will then be up to you, and your ever-useful Clerk and head Lawman who enact your will, to properly act upon this knowledge. Such is rulership, my Lord.
     
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  • Informational
    • TalonofAnathrax said:
    I promised an international post about Voices and Councils, and here it is:

    Rabble and Rule : Voices and Councils in the Empire

    ​

    Among the many other changes brought to you by Imperial conquest and the passing of your late Lord father, you must be prepared for a new challenge : peasants in politics. The three-headed Dragon has a fondness for three-headed leadership, and one of these heads will be chosen by your lessers. These mewling fools who failed to secure real influence can now select a full third of every single district Council, the elected Voice who is meant to represent the interests of the commoners living in your lands. How does this work, and what does this mean? In this TED talk lesson in leadership, I will explain the dangers of mob rule and the ways for proper Lords to keep them in their place. Your late father would have taught you this in due time, young Lord - today shall simply be an accelerated course! This very night, you shall be able to speak with confidence to even the wildest Voice, knowing the precise extent of their real least despite their lies and tendency to pretend at actual importance !

    The Voices :
    • A Voice is a mere burgher with the cunning to convince his fellow voters to choose him over another. His inferior breeding and poor education make him unsuited to politics, but his base instincts may lead him to attempt to use his new "position" to oppose you. Have no fear : despite their often shockingly ambitious promises, he is in fact little more than an advisor to you. An advisor that you can ignore, send away from your sight, and whose every decision is submitted to the vote of the district council which can be overruled by proper local Lords like you.
    • A Voice is useful to Lords who need to know the feelings and desires of the peasantry and small merchants. However, beware their tendency towards hyperbole and alarmist rhetoric! They must campaign for election, and therefore cannot access proper long-term thought befitting of a true leader. In the aggregate this can lead to interesting insight into the limited minds of the commoners, and can even force some to consult various learned men and produce something resembling useful ideas. Learning to spot these amidst the usual drivel spouted by mob-chosen Voices is a skill that any truly perfect Lord should develop.
    • A Voice is a third of a district Council, but it can be chosen to represent the district Council upon the County Council or even in the Crown Council. Beware these Voices, for they may try to turn other people who actually matter against you! Of course as you will see, a proper Lord should be able to stop a district Council from selecting a problematic Voice.
    • A Voice is elected by those peasants with the skill and discipline to own some small amount of property. However, it seems likely that someday the entire peasantry shall be given the right to vote! Beware the worsening of the flaws of Voices which such a shift will surely cause.
    The Councils :
    • The local district Council exists to advise and aid you, my Lord! The local Voice, the local Lawman head, and the local Clerk are always on it, but sometimes a Scholarum representative may be included. Together they take the burden of petitions from you, can aid you in drafting local laws and taxes, and can participate in the organization of local events.
    • The local Council can act in your stead should you be deceased (permanently or temporarily) or should you be absent.
    • The local Council are advisors : you can of course overrule them at every turn should you need to keep them in their place!
    • The local Council can whithold its approval from your decisions, but cannot countermand them. It can clarify them, but you can of course veto their clarification. They can suggest suggestions, which you may of course refuse. Should they suggest otherwise, they are liars and traitors!
    • You cannot forbid the Council from meeting, nor can you refuse an elected Voice (no matter how stupid they may be). Thankfully you do not have to participate in Council meetings.
    • A Council holds a very important role : they dispense justice. Thankfully the head of the Lawmen is always on the Council, and can bring some proper legal experience and knowledge to an especially uneducated Voice who would attempt to disrupt proper Lordly justice.
    You see, young Lord, you have nothing to fear from these Voices! Indeed, sometimes their advice may even be useful. Merchants and traders are generally elected, and they may have heard some news that your own faithful advisors may not have received yet. It will then be up to you, and your ever-useful Clerk and head Lawman who enact your will, to properly act upon this knowledge. Such is rulership, my Lord.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Laying it on a bit too thick, IMO, but I can imagine a less tongue-in-cheek version of this becoming a relatively common lesson taught to young lords and ladies throughout the Imperium.
     
    TalonofAnathrax said:
    I promised an international post about Voices and Councils, and here it is:

    Rabble and Rule : Voices and Councils in the Empire

    ​

    Among the many other changes brought to you by Imperial conquest and the passing of your late Lord father, you must be prepared for a new challenge : peasants in politics. The three-headed Dragon has a fondness for three-headed leadership, and one of these heads will be chosen by your lessers. These mewling fools who failed to secure real influence can now select a full third of every single district Council, the elected Voice who is meant to represent the interests of the commoners living in your lands. How does this work, and what does this mean? In this TED talk lesson in leadership, I will explain the dangers of mob rule and the ways for proper Lords to keep them in their place. Your late father would have taught you this in due time, young Lord - today shall simply be an accelerated course! This very night, you shall be able to speak with confidence to even the wildest Voice, knowing the precise extent of their real least despite their lies and tendency to pretend at actual importance !

    The Voices :
    • A Voice is a mere burgher with the cunning to convince his fellow voters to choose him over another. His inferior breeding and poor education make him unsuited to politics, but his base instincts may lead him to attempt to use his new "position" to oppose you. Have no fear : despite their often shockingly ambitious promises, he is in fact little more than an advisor to you. An advisor that you can ignore, send away from your sight, and whose every decision is submitted to the vote of the district council which can be overruled by proper local Lords like you.
    • A Voice is useful to Lords who need to know the feelings and desires of the peasantry and small merchants. However, beware their tendency towards hyperbole and alarmist rhetoric! They must campaign for election, and therefore cannot access proper long-term thought befitting of a true leader. In the aggregate this can lead to interesting insight into the limited minds of the commoners, and can even force some to consult various learned men and produce something resembling useful ideas. Learning to spot these amidst the usual drivel spouted by mob-chosen Voices is a skill that any truly perfect Lord should develop.
    • A Voice is a third of a district Council, but it can be chosen to represent the district Council upon the County Council or even in the Crown Council. Beware these Voices, for they may try to turn other people who actually matter against you! Of course as you will see, a proper Lord should be able to stop a district Council from selecting a problematic Voice.
    • A Voice is elected by those peasants with the skill and discipline to own some small amount of property. However, it seems likely that someday the entire peasantry shall be given the right to vote! Beware the worsening of the flaws of Voices which such a shift will surely cause.
    The Councils :
    • The local district Council exists to advise and aid you, my Lord! The local Voice, the local Lawman head, and the local Clerk are always on it, but sometimes a Scholarum representative may be included. Together they take the burden of petitions from you, can aid you in drafting local laws and taxes, and can participate in the organization of local events.
    • The local Council can act in your stead should you be deceased (permanently or temporarily) or should you be absent.
    • The local Council are advisors : you can of course overrule them at every turn should you need to keep them in their place!
    • The local Council can whithold its approval from your decisions, but cannot countermand them. It can clarify them, but you can of course veto their clarification. They can suggest suggestions, which you may of course refuse. Should they suggest otherwise, they are liars and traitors!
    • You cannot forbid the Council from meeting, nor can you refuse an elected Voice (no matter how stupid they may be). Thankfully you do not have to participate in Council meetings.
    • A Council holds a very important role : they dispense justice. Thankfully the head of the Lawmen is always on the Council, and can bring some proper legal experience and knowledge to an especially uneducated Voice who would attempt to disrupt proper Lordly justice.
    You see, young Lord, you have nothing to fear from these Voices! Indeed, sometimes their advice may even be useful. Merchants and traders are generally elected, and they may have heard some news that your own faithful advisors may not have received yet. It will then be up to you, and your ever-useful Clerk and head Lawman who enact your will, to properly act upon this knowledge. Such is rulership, my Lord.
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    ... are they gone?

    Alright, good work folks.

    So let's have the real meeting.

    Viserys Targaryen and the Constitutional Monarchy

    Or that would be the ideal. Obviously reality isn't quite so rosy. What we have now is an Absolute Monarchy with a constitution. In theory the rule of law holds firm but only contingent of the Sovereign upholding that law as written in spirit and word.

    Thankfully I have absolutely no intention of writing a law and then promptly violating it, or ignoring people who suggest sensible ones that are meant to protect and enrich the lives of my citizens. Yes, citizens. Eventually the Lords will get used to the term, but until then we will lean into their delusions for however long they remain.

    One day, rule by the strength at the end of your claw and however many people you can convince of it will be a distant memory. That day isn't now, or even soon, but why invest you with any real authority or agency if that wasn't my original intention all along? Bide away. Trust in the system. Petition for redress if you think it has failed you. Protect your neighbors, defend the realm. In a thousand years your descendants will inherit it. Perhaps they will speak fondly of me. Perhaps they will use me as a cautionary tale. I have to assume the former on the basis that the latter would suggest my system failed.

    The nobility will cling to their power, might even make you pay for the privilege to fail to move them from their moss-grown rock of blissful ignorance.

    No one will remember the ones who fail. It is the nature of myths and legends.

    But they will remember the world world we saved and the empire we built.
     
    Goldfish said:
    Laying it on a bit too thick, IMO, but I can imagine a less tongue-in-cheek version of this becoming a relatively common lesson taught to young lords and ladies throughout the Imperium.
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    My post isn't IC, it's meant to be comedic. It's not an interlude, it's meant to go into informational. Of course I'm laying it on super thick.
     
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