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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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15,000 per month is quite insane. We should try to reduce that. I really dont see where such a high cost is coming from, we already have that massive volcanic dragon den network. To be precise I wouldn't mind a large one-time payment and then a small upkeep but 15k in consumables per month seems ridiculous.

Guys we may have a good war chest but our income does not match that all, we cant keep adding per month things that cost so much or we will go into deficit sooner or later. Our megacorps are simply not growing fast enough and our taxes barely provide anything.
 
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Trek said:
15,000 per month is quite insane. We should try to reduce that. I really dont see where such a high cost is coming from, we already have that massive volcanic dragon den network. To be precise I wouldn't mind a large one-time payment and then a small upkeep but 15k in consumables per month seems ridiculous.
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That includes food, guards, caretakers, facilities, etc., across multiple locations. We can reduce it significantly via Rings of Sustenance, I'm sure.
 
Goldfish said:
That includes food, guards, caretakers, facilities, etc., across multiple locations. We can reduce it significantly via Rings of Sustenance, I'm sure.
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The proposal is using people from the legion who we already pay so that cant add to the extra monthly upkeep. We can construct facilities for free with titan tools and lytes of building. Food is very cheap as we can buy it at cost from our own companies and even then food prices are really low and should be going down as the ritual goes around. We already have a central building made its the dragon habitat by SD. So I dont see where the 15k per month is going at all.
 
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[X] The Dragon Guard will take up an initial monthly budget of 7,500 IM which will increase as more facilities are added and more dragons are hatched.
-[X] Each Valyrian Dragon will be fitted with a Ring of Sustenance (7,500 IM each) to remove their need for food.
 
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People, Rings of Sustenance probably aren't worth it. The Dragons won't understand how they work, and will simply eat anyway because they're Dragons and they like eating and tearing stuff apart.
 
@Goldfish, must we? The position these 'Dragon Guards' would have is going to be very, very detrimental to their health if they fucked up just even once. Feral Dragons didn't have the best reputation on getting their caretakers (very different from Dragon Riders) stay in the land of the living.
 
Trek said:
The proposal is using people from the legion who we already pay so that cant add to the extra monthly upkeep. We can construct facilities for free with titan tools and lytes of building. Food is very cheap as we can buy it at cost from our own companies and even then food prices are really low. We already have a central building made its the dragon habitat by SD. So I dont see where the 15k per month is going at all.
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I don't have an issue with it, though I think it will come down a lot when food costs are removed. Food might be relatively cheap, but even our relatively small number of Valyrian Dragons likely eat enough food on a daily basis to feed thousands of people. And they're not eating fruits and grains, either, but huge quantities of meat, which must be raised on the hoof or fished from the sea.

Beyond the cost of the food itself, there is also the logistics of feeding and all that comes with it.
TalonofAnathrax said:
People, Rings of Sustenance probably aren't worth it. The Dragons won't understand how they work, and will simply eat anyway because they're Dragons and they like eating and tearing stuff apart.
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DP has already confirmed they work. That's why we made one for Balerion.

Of course the Valyrian Dragons may still want to eat occasionally, but they're animals, with the instincts to match. If they aren't hungry, they won't eat. They can still be fed snacks or treats for training purposes or as rewards, which I'm sure they'll appreciate.

They can still tear stuff apart. Some of the monthly budget will probably include replacement of Dragon scratching posts.
 
Jack vile Ripper said:
@Goldfish, must we? The position these 'Dragon Guards' would have is going to be very, very detrimental to their health if they fucked up just even once. Feral Dragons didn't have the best reputation on getting their caretakers (very different from Dragon Riders) stay in the land of the living.
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Proper training and equipment, along with magic, will make the job much less dangerous. The Valyrians knew their business when it came to raising and housing Dragons, and we've got several of them to provide their knowledge and assistance on the matter.
 
If this gonna bite us back on our ass...

Fine.

[X] Goldfish

Make sure they wore some Fire-Resistant Armour whenever they get close to those murdercats! I don't want to hear someone getting their ass on fire because Vhagar didn't have his 13th belly rub.
 
Goldfish said:
I don't have an issue with it, though I think it will come down a lot when food costs are removed. Food might be relatively cheap, but even our relatively small number of Valyrian Dragons likely eat enough food on a daily basis to feed thousands of people. And they're not eating fruits and grains, either, but huge quantities of meat, which must be raised on the hoof or fished from the sea.

Beyond the cost of the food itself, there is also the logistics of feeding and all that comes with it.
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Not sure that's true, at least I dont remember it being mentioned anywhere that they only eat meat and need thousands of people's worth of food. I don't mind it as long as where that money is going is explained because right now it seems to be going nowhere. If the majority of the cost is from food then we can just use rings.
Maybe we can make some flesh forged animals that can make rapid amounts of meat by eating grain to drive that cost down even more if rings dont work out.
 
Trek said:
Not sure that's true, at least I dont remember it being mentioned anywhere that they only eat meat and need thousands of people's worth of food. I don't mind it as long as where that money is going is explained because right now it seems to be going nowhere. If the majority of the cost is from food then we can just use rings.
Maybe we can make some flesh forged animals that can make rapid amounts of meat by eating grain to drive that cost down even more if rings dont work out.
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A organization designed to both protect the giant murder-beasts from posion and other underhanded dealings and protect the general public from them would have personnel, equipment housing cost etc..
 
DragonParadox said:
A organization designed to both protect the giant murder-beasts from posion and other underhanded dealings and protect the general public from them would have personnel, equipment housing cost etc..
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Ya I expect that. But we already pay the personnel that we would be taking form the legion. Equipment and housing are one time costs. Building costs are also minuscule with our current magic items. Even checking for poison is just a onetime cost of a number of magic items.
 
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Goldfish said:
[X] The Dragon Guard will take up an initial monthly budget of (pending response from @DragonParadox on how Rings of Sustenance will affect budget) which will increase as more facilities are added and more dragons are hatched.
-[X] Each Valyrian Dragon will be fitted with a Ring of Sustenance (2,500 IM each) to remove their need for food.
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@DragonParadox?
 
Trek said:
Ya I expect that. But we already pay the personnel that we would be taking form the legion. Equipment and housing are one time costs. Building costs are also minuscule with our current magic items. Even checking for poison is just a onetime cost of a number of magic items.
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They would need rather different training to handle dragons and assassins rather than being line troops, also considering the magi-tech complexity of building proper dragon habitats and not the disaster of the dragonpit construction would not be trivial.
 
DragonParadox said:
They would need rather different training to handle dragons and assassins rather than being line troops, also considering the magi-tech complexity of building proper dragon habitats and not the disaster of the dragonpit construction would not be trivial.
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I think we already discussed this and have a writeup for this. Training is also a onetime cost with low upkeep.

Goldfish said:
Spoiler: Claw Island, Dragon Habitat - INCOMPLETE WRITE-UP My plan for the dragon habitat would be to use the Titan Tools to dig a network of caverns into the mountain, then using 8,000 IM to create 4 "smelters" in there, that heat the air like volcanic vents. This would lead to a constant, searing hot wind going through the mountain. Additionally, one more "smelter" would be installed below sea level and connected to the ocean so that it constantly boils water. That steam would condense at some places in the caves, providing fresh water and humidity for those dragons that prefer wet to dry heat.

On top of the mountain would be the garrison bunkers, sporting 10 steam cannons for defense and housing the handler crews and any guests on the island. Everything will be supplied from a harbor that is also built into a cave, so that it's protected from aerial attacks.
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DragonParadox said:
For the sake of balance call the rings 7500 IM/dragon, because they are magical and/or large and we can call it a day. Getting every dragon a ring cuts the monthly budget in half., so you will get more and more savings out of it as you expand.
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Pricey, but well worth the expense in the long run.

We'll start enchanting the Dragon-sized Rings of Sustenance this coming month. I'll also dedicate another 5,000 IM in crafting to bring Balerion's Ring of Sustenance up to spec.
 
DragonParadox said:
You guys did yes and that place we so built, the thing is I don't want to add to the spreadsheet workload by following each construction individually which is why I went with and operating budget.
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7500 IM per month (after Rings of Sustenance are accounted for) is reasonable, IMO. There would be a lot of background stuff happening to make this work, including ships regularly patrolling the island habitats, specialized equipment, Dragon scratching post replacement, etc. We might also be pulling from the Legion ranks, but I would expect some of the operating budget to be a higher salary, both to account for the danger of the job and to discourage bribery as an effective means of subverting them.
 
Okay it seems I need to explain my reasoning better.
Let me do a full breakdown of worst case scenario.
Number of valerian dragons we currently have - 9
We can ignore the building costs because of the lyte of building and titan tools. Even if we need giant specially designed buildings for each dragon the costs are negligible and onetime expenses.

Lets say we need 30 people(very big overestimate) per dragon.
Thats 270 people in total.

Lets assume they need entirely new kind of training that we will have to make from scratch. Worst case is onetime cost needed to train 270 people and a low upkeep for the new dragon handlers as more hatch.

Food is taken care of by rings which are onetime cost.
Lets tack on 1k for misc stuff.
So the main cost is personal. Lets say worst case 10 extra IM per person per month n top of legion salary. 2700 IM +300 IM per new dragon.

Total costs ignoring onetime costs are as follows -
2700(personal)+1000(misc consumables)+500(new training upkeep) = 4200IM per month + 400~ per new dragon

Thats a worst case analysis and its still lower than 7500IM.

But nevermind, It seems you guys are set on this, just be careful of accepting massive recurring expenses so easily in the future 15k is not an insignificant fraction of our monthly profits even if its negligible to our current hoard.
[X] Goldfish
 
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