Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
@DragonParadox Does Viserys spend time with Balerion? Enough to get Background skill ranks in Riding would basically be requisite at this point.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
-
- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel (dragon) ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy (dragon) best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Argentina
Hmmm.
Progress will likely take care of that. It is not like we need to many goatherders once we become the industrial magitek potency we aim to be
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Accountant, lawyers, and magic?
- Location
- France
Your treasury are your savings. A Lord isn't actually part of government, it's his family money that he can spend as he wishes (and not just for the public good).
So yes, Lords will be taxed on their treasuries. Deal with it. Maybe put your treasuries in the Iron Bank, at least that way you'll get interest
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Good idea.Your treasury are your savings. A Lord isn't actually part of government, it's his family money that he can spend as he wishes (and not just for the public good).
So yes, Lords will be taxed on their treasuries. Deal with it. Maybe put your treasuries in the Iron Bank, at least that way you'll get interest
Not as much time as he would like this month but he tries to.
- Location
- United States
We might not eat regular meals, but I'm sure Rhaella has been making sure Viserys eats actual food from time to time, including meat and fish and poultry.
She does yes
This is a bit more rare since it is limited to meals that are not in full court.
- Location
- United States
I look forward to our next installment of food porn, btw.
- Location
- France
Thoughts?
[X] The new Inevitables
-[X] Inheritance :
--[X] PREAMBLE : In the public preamble of our law, we explicitly explain the long-term economic and social issues linked to Reincarnation, immortality and wealth concentration we're seeking to avoid, and we proclaim the following long-term objectives :
---[X] Long-term objective : Avoid monopolies and overly large private private businesses or trusts.
---[X] Long-term objective : Taxation is to be progressive, to an eventual soft-cap disincenvitizing hoarding.
---[X] Long-term objective : Limit appointments to high-level posts in the administration to try to stop a single group from having too much influence in one area if possible. Efficiency remains paramount, of course.
---[X] Long-term objective : Encourage the development of new colonies, avoiding the family domination of some Shaitan colonies.
---[X] Long-term objective : Guarantee a basic standard of living for all to limit unrest. This is to be done through sound economic policies as well as a government safety net for tasks that cannot be met by the market and that currently rely solely on rather disorganized charity.
---[X] Hidden long-term objective : Not indicated in writing anywhere, but shared with Companions. We hope to create an artificial Heaven and/or to fix the old one.
-[X] All exiting taxes are to be reassessed and revised to remove impediments to trade, innovation, setting up new businesses, travel, and taxes that are regressive. Some taxes on specific goods or practices can be maintained as incentives towards certain behaviors, or to fund the costs such activities entail for local authorities. However these taxes are to be as universal as possible : we seek to minimise variations in tax laws between parts of our Empire as much as possible. This goal is publicly announced, and local Lords who must raise additional taxes are advised to follow it as much as possible.
-[X] Tax collection : Local Lords remain in charge of collecting taxes, and their own tax obligations to the Crown ("the Crown's share") are unchanged, although they may have to pay personal taxes depending on their own wealth and holdings. However, in case of repeated problems or if the Lord desires, the Crown can provide tax collectors at cost. It is strongly suggested that tax farmers be paid a regular wage and not allowed to take as much as they desire. Should the Crown's share be waived or reduced in a specific area in times of crisis, it is not to be collected.
-[X] Raising local taxes : Local Lords can still raise extra taxes. However, they are not to tax goods listed by the Crown as fundamentally essential (bread, water, etc - first list to be listed soon). Should the list change in the future, all new changes must be announced a year before they come into effect. However, the Crown may rule such extra taxes unlawful, and new taxes may be appealed by anyone who pays them.
-[X] Paying taxes : Taxes may be paid in kind, or in service for those who cannot pay in kind. Tax collectors can offer to collect taxes in service at their discretion, but refusing and paying in kind or coin remains an option. However, Lords must pay the Crown's share in coin. Transporting the Crown's share can be done by the Lord, or the Lord may ask the Crown to collect it in times or war or crisis in which its safety would not be guaranteed on the roads.
-[X] Income Tax:
--[X] An Income Tax will be applied to all legal entities (private citizens, guilds, merchant consortiums, companies, etc) operating within the Imperium which are not wholly owned and operated by the state, with annual rates determined by the income generated by each entity. Income-based tax brackets and the rates associated with them are subject to periodic adjustment in response to various economic factors, though such adjustments must be announced at least one year in advance of implementation.
---[X] Income Brackets & Annual Tax Rates
----[X] Income below Imperial Median = 0%
----[X] Imperial Median to +70% Median = 20%
----[X] +71% Median to +80% Median = 30%
----[X] +81% Median to +100% Median = 40%
----[X] +101% Median to +200% Median = 45%
----[X] +201% Median to +500% Median = 50%
----[X] +501% Median to +2,000% Median = 60%
----[X] +2,001% Median to +10,000% Median = 70%
----[X] +10,001% Median to +100,000% Median = 80%
----[X] +100,001% Median to +1,000,000% Median = 90%
----[X] In excess of +1,000,000% = 95%
-[X] Property Tax:
--[X] A 1% Property Tax will be levied against the holdings of all legal entities (private citizens, guilds, merchant consortiums, companies, etc) operating within the Imperium which are not wholly owned and operated by the state if the total assessed value of their properties exceeds 1,000 IM.
--[X] This tax information is publicly available. All cadastral maps and land value estimates are to be shared with the Crown and must be publicly available to citizens.
-[X] Inheritance and Reincarnation Taxes:
--[X] Upon Reincarnation not sanctioned by the Imperium*, 80% of the value of one's estate is to be distributed to one's heirs after any outstanding debts have been settled.
---[X] In instances where the Reincarnated subject and his or her heirs are unable to agree upon the division of non-monetary assets, an impartial mediator will by appointed by the Imperium to oversee arbitration between the involved parties. Mediators will have binding authority to divide non-monetary assets should arbitration fail.
---[X] The assets a Reincarnated subject retains or accumulates after Reincarnation are not subject to further division among previous heirs, though any heirs produced following the latest Reincarnation do so benefit.
--[X] Upon Reincarnation not sanctioned by the Imperium*, 20% of the value of one's estate is to be paid as a tax to the Imperium should the Reincarnated subject have no living heirs.
---[X] Upon subsequent instances of Reincarnation without an heir, the rate of taxation will increase in 20% increments, to a maximum tax rate per Reincarnation of 80% of total assets.
--[X] *State-sanctioned Reincarnation includes any instance of an individual being Reincarnated after falling in service to the Imperium as part of their assigned duties.
-[X] Clarification of Inheritance:
--[X] An individual's children, both those legitimately born within the bounds of a marriage contract and those illegitimately born outside of such a contract, but who were later officially recognized, are considered their legal heirs. This ruling extends to any children one may have legally adopted into their family, but who do not share significant ties of blood relation.
---[X] Additionally, an individual has full control over the disbursement of their worldly assets to legal heirs, including the designation of a primary heir to receive inheritable titles of nobility.
[X] The new Inevitables
-[X] Inheritance :
--[X] PREAMBLE : In the public preamble of our law, we explicitly explain the long-term economic and social issues linked to Reincarnation, immortality and wealth concentration we're seeking to avoid, and we proclaim the following long-term objectives :
---[X] Long-term objective : Avoid monopolies and overly large private private businesses or trusts.
---[X] Long-term objective : Taxation is to be progressive, to an eventual soft-cap disincenvitizing hoarding.
---[X] Long-term objective : Limit appointments to high-level posts in the administration to try to stop a single group from having too much influence in one area if possible. Efficiency remains paramount, of course.
---[X] Long-term objective : Encourage the development of new colonies, avoiding the family domination of some Shaitan colonies.
---[X] Long-term objective : Guarantee a basic standard of living for all to limit unrest. This is to be done through sound economic policies as well as a government safety net for tasks that cannot be met by the market and that currently rely solely on rather disorganized charity.
---[X] Hidden long-term objective : Not indicated in writing anywhere, but shared with Companions. We hope to create an artificial Heaven and/or to fix the old one.
-[X] All exiting taxes are to be reassessed and revised to remove impediments to trade, innovation, setting up new businesses, travel, and taxes that are regressive. Some taxes on specific goods or practices can be maintained as incentives towards certain behaviors, or to fund the costs such activities entail for local authorities. However these taxes are to be as universal as possible : we seek to minimise variations in tax laws between parts of our Empire as much as possible. This goal is publicly announced, and local Lords who must raise additional taxes are advised to follow it as much as possible.
-[X] Tax collection : Local Lords remain in charge of collecting taxes, and their own tax obligations to the Crown ("the Crown's share") are unchanged, although they may have to pay personal taxes depending on their own wealth and holdings. However, in case of repeated problems or if the Lord desires, the Crown can provide tax collectors at cost. It is strongly suggested that tax farmers be paid a regular wage and not allowed to take as much as they desire. Should the Crown's share be waived or reduced in a specific area in times of crisis, it is not to be collected.
-[X] Raising local taxes : Local Lords can still raise extra taxes. However, they are not to tax goods listed by the Crown as fundamentally essential (bread, water, etc - first list to be listed soon). Should the list change in the future, all new changes must be announced a year before they come into effect. However, the Crown may rule such extra taxes unlawful, and new taxes may be appealed by anyone who pays them.
-[X] Paying taxes : Taxes may be paid in kind, or in service for those who cannot pay in kind. Tax collectors can offer to collect taxes in service at their discretion, but refusing and paying in kind or coin remains an option. However, Lords must pay the Crown's share in coin. Transporting the Crown's share can be done by the Lord, or the Lord may ask the Crown to collect it in times or war or crisis in which its safety would not be guaranteed on the roads.
-[X] Income Tax:
--[X] An Income Tax will be applied to all legal entities (private citizens, guilds, merchant consortiums, companies, etc) operating within the Imperium which are not wholly owned and operated by the state, with annual rates determined by the income generated by each entity. Income-based tax brackets and the rates associated with them are subject to periodic adjustment in response to various economic factors, though such adjustments must be announced at least one year in advance of implementation.
---[X] Income Brackets & Annual Tax Rates
----[X] Income below Imperial Median = 0%
----[X] Imperial Median to +70% Median = 20%
----[X] +71% Median to +80% Median = 30%
----[X] +81% Median to +100% Median = 40%
----[X] +101% Median to +200% Median = 45%
----[X] +201% Median to +500% Median = 50%
----[X] +501% Median to +2,000% Median = 60%
----[X] +2,001% Median to +10,000% Median = 70%
----[X] +10,001% Median to +100,000% Median = 80%
----[X] +100,001% Median to +1,000,000% Median = 90%
----[X] In excess of +1,000,000% = 95%
-[X] Property Tax:
--[X] A 1% Property Tax will be levied against the holdings of all legal entities (private citizens, guilds, merchant consortiums, companies, etc) operating within the Imperium which are not wholly owned and operated by the state if the total assessed value of their properties exceeds 1,000 IM.
--[X] This tax information is publicly available. All cadastral maps and land value estimates are to be shared with the Crown and must be publicly available to citizens.
-[X] Inheritance and Reincarnation Taxes:
--[X] Upon Reincarnation not sanctioned by the Imperium*, 80% of the value of one's estate is to be distributed to one's heirs after any outstanding debts have been settled.
---[X] In instances where the Reincarnated subject and his or her heirs are unable to agree upon the division of non-monetary assets, an impartial mediator will by appointed by the Imperium to oversee arbitration between the involved parties. Mediators will have binding authority to divide non-monetary assets should arbitration fail.
---[X] The assets a Reincarnated subject retains or accumulates after Reincarnation are not subject to further division among previous heirs, though any heirs produced following the latest Reincarnation do so benefit.
--[X] Upon Reincarnation not sanctioned by the Imperium*, 20% of the value of one's estate is to be paid as a tax to the Imperium should the Reincarnated subject have no living heirs.
---[X] Upon subsequent instances of Reincarnation without an heir, the rate of taxation will increase in 20% increments, to a maximum tax rate per Reincarnation of 80% of total assets.
--[X] *State-sanctioned Reincarnation includes any instance of an individual being Reincarnated after falling in service to the Imperium as part of their assigned duties.
-[X] Clarification of Inheritance:
--[X] An individual's children, both those legitimately born within the bounds of a marriage contract and those illegitimately born outside of such a contract, but who were later officially recognized, are considered their legal heirs. This ruling extends to any children one may have legally adopted into their family, but who do not share significant ties of blood relation.
---[X] Additionally, an individual has full control over the disbursement of their worldly assets to legal heirs, including the designation of a primary heir to receive inheritable titles of nobility.
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egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
Gee.
Someone remembering to tag me when talking about plans for the foreseeable future, yet for such a... petty reason.
Added.
...Do we have to?
Not enough colors in the plan
@Goldfish, cometh and saveth this colorless mess!
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That's not exactly what I was proposing, I was just trying to post something before I got busy again. Not the best decision when trying to articulate an economic position I suppose.
Viserys is an absolute monarch, the state is his property and his property is the state. Depending on how you look at it, he's either cynically using his position to build a personal megacorp piggy bank or creating strong nationalized corporations to generate revenue and fill important economic roles. Either way, the system as it stands is a stable effective government.
Its not that governments/taxes are evil, or some similarly nonsense, but I take issue with the reasoning behind these ones.
Its one thing for a government to lay out a set of tasks and duties it must preform and levy taxes based on what it reasonably thinks it needs to do so. It's quite another for one to levy taxes for the sake of levying taxes. I wouldn't be criticizing this set up if it weren't for the fact that we picked effectively arbitrary numbers against no specific goal or budgetary shortfall.
The fact that massive public assets generate wealth for the budgetary pool is part of the equation here, it's not some weird other thing that could go away at any time, they're critical public assets in the same way roads and post offices are. In my view this is similar to a real world government announcing a 40% income tax increase, but not explaining why it's necessary or what it'll do with it beyond "we'll find something ". That's mostly what was grinding my gears about this.
I'm not disputing that, just that instituting a wide ranging tax plan because we remembered we could do that today isn't the basis for a fair or solid tax system. Especially since most of this conversation has been about how to keep people from getting too rich, and not how to stop them from being poor.
... We use shell corporations and puppet banks to mask hostile takeovers of foreign powers, and routinely give control of significant industries to our closest friends (like the Royce alchemy works). I don't mind the idea of high taxes for the sake of instituting economic controls, but we might be a little late to completely avoid military megacorp stuff.
As long as we make decent policy on the use of these funds it's not a huge salt fest for me, but can you guys see where I'm coming from with the order of operations here?
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Needs more color.
Also wouldn't mind a mention that those tax collectors, as well any other official involved in the taxation process, found to be deliberately perverting their duties to enrich themselves or others will be fed to the OG. I don't expect y 'all to agree with that, though, so I didn't bother to include it in my earlier drafts.
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Good night guys, see you tomorrow with more minor actions. There might be less than the usual three updates though since it is Christmas Eve, but I'll try to make the most of the time I have to write.
- Location
- France
@Goldfish, @egoo, I'm adding colors now.
I'm not going to drop my tax reform idea (medieval taxes sucked hard for everyone involved and can be accused of stifling innovation and trade, if we're centralising everythign else we may as well centralize taxes too) but I now have a better understanding of where you're coming from.
But yeah, we are indeed corrupt as fuck.
Royce alchemy works makes sense though when you realize that Waymar Royce is the one who designed it, set it up, and recreated many of the Alchemical stuff they sell.
Okay, this makes sense.
I'm not going to drop my tax reform idea (medieval taxes sucked hard for everyone involved and can be accused of stifling innovation and trade, if we're centralising everythign else we may as well centralize taxes too) but I now have a better understanding of where you're coming from.
Two good points here :
- Yes, this isn't the best way to go about rewriting the Empire's tax code. But that's why we're not doing that. We're not writing out a whole tax code, we're just writing key parts and then offscreening a lot of the rest. Viserys will handle the details according to the principles laid out in my proposal (and feel free to suggest changes to them!). I don't want to spend months writing a full tax code and debating it, I'm sure I'd get bored after 6 hours, let alone 6 weeks.
- Fighting poverty is indeed absolutely crucial. However that has so far almost always been off-screened. @egoo, maybe add it to our minor actions list? We could have an update or two about that, show it onscreen and have a general policy vote if more people care. AFAIK here is what we already do in SD and really should try to make more widespread:
- We provide the basics to the needy (food, housing)
- We have a job board for jobseekers and employers looking to make job offers more visible
- We provide various forms of education for children and criminals (reading and writing, a trade skill)
- We run massive businesses and government services which employ people
- And we have doing this as a general policy that Viserys keeps in mind while doing his job offscreen
- Ideas for more ways to help people get out of poverty :
- Get the Iron Bank to do microcredit (possibly backed by Divination?) or facilitate investor/entrepreneur links
- Have a vote on how to stop rampant magitech from crashing huge swathes of our economy
- ???
By "military megacorp" I meant "having profit be a strategic imperative" and "have private interests with strong armies capable of challenging the state".
But yeah, we are indeed corrupt as fuck.
Royce alchemy works makes sense though when you realize that Waymar Royce is the one who designed it, set it up, and recreated many of the Alchemical stuff they sell.
Yes. Thank you for posting.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
...I just remembered about the background having variants, now.
It... just doesn't look right in lightmode.
*curls up and rocks back-and-forth in a lot of discomfort and confusion*
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Ah, I see. You've been doing it wrong all this time. You're supposed to be using a dark background like me...
The colors you added are fine, though the top blue section is just slightly eye searing.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Half the Stepstones burnt to the ground is very petty, I'm sure.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
We could always threaten to roll back the tax code... and then disarm the nobility. They clearly hate military spending, so they won't mind, right?