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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
Mind Dragons themselves would be excellent for the purpose of introducing new Dragons into the world and protecting them from outside interference. They're naturally Telepathic, so they can begin conversing with newly formed minds from the moment they first become conscious and they can use their Telepathic Bond SLA on them to communicate at range if they have to leave the Forge for some reason. They could maybe even use their Dream SLA to interact with them more wholly before their spirits in the Dreamlands come to rest fully in their corporeal bodies. And they can use their Mind Blank SLA to shield them from all but the most concerted of meddling.
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Kind, helpful chromatics...

Goldfish you might actually kill Tiamat before we get the chance to loot her next avatar.


[X] Crake
 
Abhishek M said:
That said non Might Mind Drgaons age into the CR15 type as their Elder Wyrm build right? Or are they stuck at CR10 from Adult onward?
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The CR 10 Adult form is the natural limit of their progression, but they're well suited to continue gaining class levels, especially as Sorcerers or any other spontaneous Arcane spellcasting class or PRC for which they meet the requirements.
 
Goldfish said:
The CR 10 Adult form is the natural limit of their progression, but they're well suited to continue gaining class levels, especially as Sorcerers or any other spontaneous Arcane spellcasting class or PRC for which they meet the requirements.
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Really? Dang, I though it was just an age thing. Would the mighty ones breed true? Or would their kids be limited to CR10 as well? Seems a bit weak for True Dragon max limits.

Thought the difference was just between printing a Wlder Wyrm and printing an Adult for the species. Ah well.
 
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Abhishek M said:
Really? Dang, I though it was just an age thing. Would the mighty ones breed true? Or would their kids be limited to CR10 as well? Seems a bit weak for True Dragon max limits.

Thought the difference was just between printing a Wlder Wyrm and printing an Adult for the species.
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CR 10 is the top level, but lower CR means it's easier to gain class levels. Not easy mind you, but the effort say, Relath has to go through in order to gain them essentially means he needs to participate in CR 20 brawls on the regular in order to make any gains, and he's not CR 20. In D&D, not all monsters are built equally.

Mighty is not an inheritable trait.
 
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Crake said:
CR 10 is the top level, but lower CR means it's easier to gain class levels. Not easy mind you, but the effort say, Relath has to go through in order to gain them essentially means he needs to participate in CR 20 brawls on the regular in order to make any gains, and he's not CR 20. In D&D, not all monsters are built equally.

Mighty is not an inheritable trait.
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Is that based on max CR for the species or thir own? If it's their own them still being able to grow with age shouldn't matter right? Well doesn't make any difference request time wise anyway.

[X] Crake
 
Abhishek M said:
Really? Dang, I though it was just an age thing. Would the mighty ones breed true? Or would their kids be limited to CR10 as well? Seems a bit weak for True Dragon max limits.

Thought the difference was just between printing a Wlder Wyrm and printing an Adult for the species.
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There are plenty of Dragon breeds that don't progress through all the Age Categories like the True Dragon types. The Mind Dragons which cap out at CR 10 as Adults are actually pretty well positioned to continue progressing through gaining class levels. For example, as the equivalent of 9th level Sorcerers, simply gaining a level of Sorcerer would be enough for them to reach 10th level and gain access to 5th level spells. They also reach full maturity much faster than True Dragons, meaning they don't spend several decades as little more than children, with spellcasting ability worse than a Scholarium Initiate.

EDIT: To put that into perspective, a Red Dragon doesn't gain spellcasting equal to a 9th level Sorcerer until they're Mature Adults, which is at 201+ years, and they won't be casting 5th level spells until they're Old, which is 401+ years. A Mind Dragon reaches adulthood in just 16 years.
 
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Abhishek M said:
Really? Dang, I though it was just an age thing. Would the mighty ones breed true? Or would their kids be limited to CR10 as well? Seems a bit weak for True Dragon max limits.

Thought the difference was just between printing a Wlder Wyrm and printing an Adult for the species. Ah well.
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It's not a True Dragon.

We made a good first effort in creating dragons, but unless we get a goody from robbing Tiamat that is thematically appropriate to the task we likely won't make True Dragons soon.
 
Neat, say where do you keep the sheets for the new creature builds anyway? Is there a tab for that? And did you guys like the images?

Artemis1992 said:
It's not a True Dragon.

We made a good first effort in creating dragons, but unless we get a goody from robbing Tiamat that is thematically appropriate to the task we likely won't make True Dragons soon.
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Did I misinterpret that update?
 
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Abhishek M said:
Did I misinterpret that update?
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The thing is that they technically are true dragons (they count enough for Tiamat, and enough for us, so that's independent confirmation from 2 sources who don't really agree on anything unless they have to) but they're not the equals of chromatic breeds in power because we're not a God so we can't make them that good.

This is not uncommon really, as someone else said, not all Dragons are equal.
 
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Abhishek M said:
Neat, say where do you keep the sheets for the new creature builds anyway? Is there a tab for that? And did you guys like the images?


Did I misinterpret that update?
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We will be able to make True Dragons after we explore the limits of Saenena's research. However, since we have not yet completed it, we can't make anything beyond the not-quite-true-dragon Mind Dragons.

We shouldn't need to mug Tiamat again for this, we've got everything we need. It's more us sitting down and properly unlocking it.
 
065tdsa said:
The thing is that they technically are true dragons (they count enough for Tiamat, and enough for us, so that's independent confirmation from 2 sources who don't really agree on anything unless they have to) but they're not the equals of chromatic breeds in power because we're not a God making them.
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Pretty much yes, they are true dragons, but they are not the peers of Chromatics and Metalics, though they posses many abilities which both would envy.
 
Duesal said:
We will be able to make True Dragons after we explore the limits of Saenena's research. However, since we have not yet completed it, we can't make anything beyond the not-quite-true-dragon Mind Dragons.

We shouldn't need to mug Tiamat again for this, we've got everything we need. It's more us sitting down and properly unlocking it.
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It does bring up the question of whether we can make upgrades later, but the answer is probably not because modifying existing beings very hard.
 
A true dragon is generally defined by five things:
  1. The Draconic form
  2. Growing though the standard age categories
  3. Innate sorcery
  4. Innate shape-shifting and SLAs
  5. A Breath Weapon
Not every true dragon has all those qualities. Mind Dragons check 3 of 5. They are very much an edge case, but one that falls on the side of true dragon hence Tiamat being able to have a chat with them.
 
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065tdsa said:
It does bring up the question of whether we can make upgrades later, but the answer is probably not because modifying existing beings very hard.
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That'll probably be counted as grafting. And if the Mind Dragons would like grafts -- like Breathweapons, which IIRC they don't have, they're free to purchase them from the Flesh Forgers.
 
DragonParadox said:
Pretty much yes, they are true dragons, but they are not the peers of Chromatics and Metalics, though they posses many abilities which both would envy.
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I am adding "make True Dragons proper Dragons with 9 age categories" to my objective-list, then.
Just after "steal that anti-DeepOne mass-productible research project the Lannisters were working on".

Remember that Lannister research project, everyone? The one we got from Varys' brain? They were trying to find the connection between Deep One thralls, the Far Realm and their "Gods" and find a way to detect or disrupt that on a huge scale, I believe. It's been a while : time to investigate further and potentially loot it for ourselves!
Or we could simply ask Dannelle to try to buy it off them and then sell it to us, if you want to avoid contact for now.
 
@DragonParadox, what's the full extent of Saenena's "make dragons" research? Would we get the ability to make genuine True Dragons that satisfy all requirements? Granted of course there's still the CR 15 cap, so we'd be naturally limited to Adult or lower on average depending on the species.
 
Duesal said:
@DragonParadox, what's the full extent of Saenena's "make dragons" research? Would we get the ability to make genuine True Dragons that satisfy all requirements? Granted of course there's still the CR 15 cap, so we'd be naturally limited to Adult or lower on average depending on the species.
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You would be able to recreate chromatic dragons, but making new breeds would be another long complex and probably dangerous research project.
 
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