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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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[X] "Before aught else, I must admit that I am humbled... humbled and delighted, that through our efforts and your indomitable spirits, magnificent beings such as yourselves can now join us in the world of form." Viserys speaks, his sincerity and wonder plain to see on his face and hear in his voice. "You are each a marvel to behold, dragons newborn into the world of form, yet already you possess the wisdom and strength of conviction to deny She of Many Colors."
-[X] "This is no small thing to me, because of that which I would ask your aid in, requiring not only fortitude but the steadfast conviction of one who will ever seek to deny such beings, no matter how tempting the offer they make, and they will make offers, and threats." Viserys looks at Dany, expression darkening briefly. "They always make threats."
-[X] "There are a number of things with which the call for subtlety, not fire and rage holds the most importance, ones I think you would handle well. I seek to counter Asmodeus, Devils and spirits in the lands of my people as much as in those realms sorely tempted by their own offerings, however foolish the bargain."
-[X] "Moreover I seek to bring battle to She of Many Color's servants, both in the field and at the heart of their fastness so I might cast it down. And at last proof of the place of Dragons in a world changed. While I will strike down the infants she brought into this world if they think Her so worth following, none of our kindred rests comfortably under the shadow of Her wings, and in that I think they feel the same. All of this and more I would ask of you, for the mutual prosperity of Dragonkind not twisted along narrowing paths by mad or equally careless gods." You do not exclude Bahamut from that statement, it's true.
-[X] "At the heart of it all lies this: If you help me protect my Realm from that which seeks to cast it down, you and your descendants and like-minded siblings born of the same flesh and bone, will always have a place in my Imperium. Your foes shall be mine, your dreams as well."
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
I may have misremebered (there was a night's sleep in between me reading the discussion and me answering) but AFAIK the topic of Viserys reforming the nobility came up with Zioneer's prequel meme, and then people started saying that Viserys would never have said he would preserve the rights of the nobility. I disagree with that, of course, and think that while today Viserys isn't backing the nobility to the hilt in the past he absolutely would have. The point of character development is that it starts somewhere, after all.

And even here he doesn't seem opposed to nobility as an institution, just to incompetence and feudalism as a socioeconomic system.

[goes to reread that page]

You're right, I shouldn't have quoted you. I should have quoted @Smartphone and @Duesal, who did indeed say that Viserys wouldn't have defended the nobility at quest start.
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I said no such thing, I just asked for clarification on whether Viserys made a promise to that effect or not.
 
So is step two is to create four more, each playing off a virtue that Tiamat dislikes, then making a better version of her? :V

I kind of want to see if we can give her a heart attack from sheer rage.

Edit: grammar
 
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It makes sense. @DragonParadox Though that makes me think, Tiamat and Bahamut have the Dragon Domain and so they can make similar offers, with Bahamut being able to get there first with Metallics and Tiamat with Chromatics.

If we could tie the concept of Dragons to the Imperial Deity as well, could we have the mechanism insert a primer on what information they would need to know about the world and our realm, as well as the offers they might be tempted with, so long as they aren't either Chromatic and Metallic? Shutting either deity out from those, I don't see happening, but if they're a True Dragon of a different breed, shouldn't the "creator" get there first?
 
@Crake, can you please add this to the first part of your vote?

[] "Before aught else, I must admit that I am humbled...humbled and delighted, that through our efforts and your indomitable spirits, magnificent beings such as yourselves can now join us in the world of form." Viserys speaks, his sincerity and wonder plain to see on his face and hear in his voice. "You are each a marvel to behold, dragons newborn into the world of form, yet already you possess the wisdom and strength of conviction to deny She of Many Colors."

[X] Crake
 
Crake said:
It makes sense. @DragonParadox Though that makes me think, Tiamat and Bahamut have the Dragon Domain and so they can make similar offers, with Bahamut being able to get there first with Metallics and Tiamat with Chromatics.

If we could tie the concept of Dragons to the Imperial Deity as well, could we have the mechanism insert a primer on what information they would need to know about the world and our realm, as well as the offers they might be tempted with, so long as they aren't either Chromatic and Metallic? Shutting either deity out from those, I don't see happening, but if they're a True Dragon of a different breed, shouldn't the "creator" get there first?
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If you could somehow get the Imperial Deity the dragon Domain yes that would work.
 
Crake said:
It makes sense. @DragonParadox Though that makes me think, Tiamat and Bahamut have the Dragon Domain and so they can make similar offers, with Bahamut being able to get there first with Metallics and Tiamat with Chromatics.

If we could tie the concept of Dragons to the Imperial Deity as well, could we have the mechanism insert a primer on what information they would need to know about the world and our realm, as well as the offers they might be tempted with, so long as they aren't either Chromatic and Metallic? Shutting either deity out from those, I don't see happening, but if they're a True Dragon of a different breed, shouldn't the "creator" get there first?
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Mind Dragons are uniquely suited to resisting such efforts, too. Between their natural Alignments, high mental attributes and Will saves, and blanket immunity to Mind-Affecting effects, they have a much better chance of shrugging aside both Tiamat and Bahamut that most other newly created True Dragons. It also doesn't hurt that they can Mind Blank themselves from the moment they become conscious.

Other new Dragon types might not be so fortunate. :o
 
DragonParadox said:
If you could somehow get the Imperial Deity the dragon Domain yes that would work.
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How might we do such? Not all domains are stolen, right? Could Viserys' own strong association with the deity eventually allow it to manifest naturally?

I guess in the worst case scenario we could cannibalize a dead God for it.
 
Nice, like them already and it looks like we might have just broke Tiamats legend a little bit.

Say @DragonParadoz I know it snot like the cannon image but what would you say to a design like this for our Pyrausta? And something like this if we make high CR true dragon versions later on?
 
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Crake said:
It makes sense. @DragonParadox Though that makes me think, Tiamat and Bahamut have the Dragon Domain and so they can make similar offers, with Bahamut being able to get there first with Metallics and Tiamat with Chromatics.

If we could tie the concept of Dragons to the Imperial Deity as well, could we have the mechanism insert a primer on what information they would need to know about the world and our realm, as well as the offers they might be tempted with, so long as they aren't either Chromatic and Metallic? Shutting either deity out from those, I don't see happening, but if they're a True Dragon of a different breed, shouldn't the "creator" get there first?
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Maybe we could try adding it to the dragon dreams instead? Trying inject ourselves into whatever divine mechanism they're using will probably be difficult and possibly contestable.

On the other hand, dragons already have a natural mechanism for sharing information that we could use as a channel. It might even have some sort of insulation from Tiamat considering that she doesn't use it to indoctrinate young dragons.
 
Crake said:
How might we do such? Not all domains are stolen, right? Could Viserys' own strong association with the deity eventually allow it to manifest naturally?

I guess in the worst case scenario we could cannibalize a dead God for it.
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Well we're already putting dragons everywhere so in this case the association really should be natural. If more than that is required, we know exactly who to beat up for it.
BronzeTongue said:
So is step two is to create four more, each playing off a virtues that Tiamat dislikes, then making a better version of her? :V

I kind of want to see if we can give her a heart attack from sheer rage.
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This, I find plain funny. We may want 5 more instead of just 4, since the Mind Dragons' virtue is apparently Friendship :p
 
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Abhishek M said:
Nice, like them already and it looks like we might have just broke Tiamats legend a little bit.

Say @DeagonParadoz I know it snot like the cannon image but what would you say to a design like this for our Pyrausta? And something like this if we make high CR true dragon versions later on?
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Those are really neat! The first is definitely a better pic for Faerie Dragons than the stock images, at the very least.

Also wanted to preserve a really nice example of an awful autocorrect mishap. Glad to see I'm not the only one who it happens to around here. :p
 
Crake said:
How might we do such? Not all domains are stolen, right? Could Viserys' own strong association with the deity eventually allow it to manifest naturally?

I guess in the worst case scenario we could cannibalize a dead God for it.
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Domains can grow from sufficiently grand deeds and associations, but you would need mythic rank 10 as a minimum for going down that path.
 
Goldfish said:
Those are really neat! The first is definitely a better pic for Faerie Dragons than the stock images, at the very least.

Also wanted to preserve a really nice example of an awful autocorrect mishap. Glad to see I'm not the only one who it happens to around here. :p
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Eh, they can stay ugly. I want nice Pyrausta. No Fey there but the text does say they are slightly bug like wings. Those two fit. Small have butterfly like patterns on wings and large true dragon ones have dragonfly wing like protruding scales.

The base creature is pretty nice too. Kinda like Pseudodragons so I'd feel nice making them our second true dragon race if we go down that route.


Isnt the Imperial Deity basically Viserys's Divine Alter Ego ala his Mystic Path? Would it not be kinda Dragonic by default given that? Well if not we could just eat chunks of Toamat until Biserys gains enough to add it himself.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Maybe we could try adding it to the dragon dreams instead? Trying inject ourselves into whatever divine mechanism they're using will probably be difficult and possibly contestable.

On the other hand, dragons already have a natural mechanism for sharing information that we could use as a channel. It might even have some sort of insulation from Tiamat considering that she doesn't use it to indoctrinate young dragons.
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Mind Dragons themselves would be excellent for the purpose of introducing new Dragons into the world and protecting them from outside interference. They're naturally Telepathic, so they can begin conversing with newly formed minds from the moment they first become conscious and they can use their Telepathic Bond SLA on them to communicate at range if they have to leave the Forge for some reason. They could maybe even use their Dream SLA to interact with them more wholly before their spirits in the Dreamlands come to rest fully in their corporeal bodies. And they can use their Mind Blank SLA to shield them from all but the most concerted of meddling.
 
Goldfish said:
Mind Dragons themselves would be excellent for the purpose of introducing new Dragons into the world and protecting them from outside interference. They're naturally Telepathic, so they can begin conversing with newly formed minds from the moment they first become conscious, they can use their Telepathic Bond SLA on them to communicate at range if they have to leave the Forge for some reason. They could maybe even use their Dream SLA to interact with them more wholly before their spirits in the Dreamlands come to rest fully in their corporeal bodies. And they can use their Mind Blank SLA to shield them from all but the most concerted of meddling.
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That said non Mighty Mind Drgaons age into the CR15 type as their Elder Wyrm build right? Or are they stuck at CR10 from Adult onward?
 
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Goldfish said:
Mind Dragons are uniquely suited to resisting such efforts, too. Between their natural Alignments, high mental attributes and Will saves, and blanket immunity to Mind-Affecting effects, they have a much better chance of shrugging aside both Tiamat and Bahamut that most other newly created True Dragons. It also doesn't hurt that they can Mind Blank themselves from the moment they become conscious.

Other new Dragon types might not be so fortunate.
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Does help versus divine Diplomacy and Bluff, but it's no guarantee. We were lucky here - that grandma is chaotic evil.
[X] Crake
 
Other dragon types exist so we could have our empire associated with dragons just by making more of them and then having them fly around. All the dragon iconography could probably also assist greatly with that.
 
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