Did we do anything with Harren's loot?
He had ashes that could improve undead during the original animation, a crown that was mostly related to Harrenhall as a location and a ring for Paladins/Antipaladins that we wanted to give THoros, but never did I think?
 
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Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 5, 2019 at 6:14 AM, finished with 60 posts and 14 votes.

  • [X] Clarification and background information for @DragonParadox's viewing pleasure; AKA "What we exactly are offering both House Bracken and House Blackwood, framed less indelicately or over time given the diplomatic fragility of the situation."
    -[X] To House Bracken, the following:
    --[X] Advance notice of, as part of formalization of de jure land claims, the Crown's intentions to uphold decided upon claims sorted through upon official establishment of those fiefdoms incumbent to the Lords in question, and under Imperial Mandate should any counter-claimant seek to usurp the rightful heir as declared by these terms, in Royal writ they shall have committed high crimes in accordance to the degree of such egregious breaches. (TL: Don't fuck with our vassals, it's our responsibility to ensure intended upon succession according to their will, interference will merely anger us and force us to fall upon you like a sack of shit-bricks.)
    ---[X] This means we fully intend on upholding Lady Barbara's succession, and we refuse to let her suffer as history relates to the wary, like Jeyne Arryn or Rhaenyra Targaryen had.
    --[X] *A city charter, part of our formulation of shipping infrastructure throughout the Riverlands to massively ease trade and direct industry in a productive manner.
    ---[X] *As there will be much arguing between Riverlander Lords otherwise, arbitration, security and organization of all river trade will fall to the Crown and likely a special economic council formed of both regional and non-regional authorities, each committed to ensuring ease of travel and trade and regulated tariffs. None of the same chicanery that Walder Frey is infamous for, to choke trade and cause more enmity. We will relate this information to those Lords we discuss the matter with in advance and at our planned Summit post-Reconquest. Note: This is the best compromise for the matter available, too many Lords will be building cities on either riverbank and the Crown will have to organize and maintain water infrastructure to limit pollution from human waste and industry. Also, of primary concern, while no one would think lightly to block a Legion from traveling across bridges they helped organize and engineer the construction of, that is not to say petty rivalries would not get in the way of what you deem your due given how much resources you intend to commit to the massive project.
    --[X] A royal education/fosterage at Lord Jonos' discretion. Having two daughters younger than Lady Catelyn could prove a boon here. An attendant for Rhaella, a friend for Rhaenys, though one of the two mostly too busy to get the most use out of them, they will hardly suffer neglect with how many opportunities are presented in a life at Court.
    -[X] Spacing.
    -[X] To House Blackwood, the following:
    --[X] Repeat of #1 from the previous, though this relating to formalizing their own House's claims on their side of the Red Fork.
    --[X] **Repeat of #2 from the previous alongside contingent terms for trade and travel across the rivers.
    ---[X] **We will offer to sanctify the Raven Tree with either a strong ward capable of shrugging off most mind control, alongside two other constant enchantments for all living within an area the size of a small city around Raventree Hall, or optionally a single ward capable of warding off most mind control across a potentially massive area (nine times the scope of a small city).
    --[X] ***Close instruction, personal counsel and royal oversight of Hoster Blackwood's magical and governmental education. Furthermore our ability to perhaps deepen his bond between himself and the Old Gods, the ability to perform Druidic magic.
    ----[X] ***It goes without saying but we are aware of how problematic for a dynastic alliance it is, even with the Crown going to great lengths to normalize relations with trade and security, if one of the two partners in it is easily bent to the other's will.
    -----[X] We are wary of placing a noble in a position of power if they have no intentions on exercising that influence responsibly and being worthy of their position, as our casting down of many not only corrupt but vile men and women from the ruling class directly attests.
    ------[X] If Hoster wants to marry his lady love, he will have to not only prove worthy of her but prove worthy of our trust in such a delicate matter, something which will hopefully go a long way to ensuring this potential Cadet House advances the cause of both their lines equally.
    -------[X] One with the will to master magic, we remind Lord Tytos, is not without the strength of character to change their mind, nor strive to improve themselves, should the situation call for it.
    -[X] To both Houses, the following:
    --[X] A Valyrian Steel weapon and armor set.
    --[X] Potential wedding hosted in the Capital, with all the pomp, prestige and ceremony that entails.
    ---[X] Pending agreement, likely a double-set of oaths presented within a Sept and before a Heart Tree, which is really just twice the celebration, and a commitment to the implicit message inherent in the lands we've chosen for them to rule over once we are certain they are ready for such (so a betrothal period).
    --[X] All of the obvious benefits of our rule in exchange for leal service and oaths of fealty. Protection from harm from all such sources, from the subtle and insidious to more overt and outward threats, of which there are numerous, and numerous reasons why the Usurper has proven inadequate.
    --[X] This includes but is not limited to highly efficient and organized governmental bureaus, extensive and high-quality infrastructure, access to trade routes never before seen , numerous skilled experts which can be called upon to improve local industry, sort through gaps in security and change how communications are conducted (from delivery of messages on well-trained couriers to secure point-to-point magical correspondence.
    ---[X] And a ruler who isn't a monster or a fool. Hint hint. There are many monsters and many fools who also happen to be rulers, and none of them have any good intentions toward either of their Houses.
    --[X] Tentatively, pending deliberations, a Cadet Branch of both Houses with rulership over the County of the Andal Coast, along with a seat worthy of a Great House.
    -[X]***IMPORTANT***
    -[X] Make sure to go through Rickard's mind to learn all of the short-term plots he had going on, saving the more intensive interrogation for later, to ensure we aren't letting the wheels spin on some paranoid contingency. Gods only know he would have had a long time to consider how to ruin his enemies even in the event of his death.
    [X] If the Rickard Fits, Viserys Does Not Acquit
    -[X] Assuming Lya has Rickard Stark made presentable as evidence of his misdeeds, alongside the Master of the Hunt in Stone Henge and the broken sword, it is best to start with Lord Jonos Bracken, whom it will be easiest to prove both the ultimate utility of our actions, as well as our good intentions.
    --[X] The information and accounts Rickard can provide along with our own information gathered is too intimate and knowledgeable to be easily dismissed, the picture it paints too horrific to fall back into the easy or comfortable, casting even these age old hatreds into a light of farce. How many horrific acts supposedly perpetrated by either House was actually the hand of this monster in man or beast's skin?
    --[X] Too many to count, just the short rattling off of the ones throughout the Post-Conquest period is enough to beggar imagination.
    -[X] At the end of the day Lady Catelyn does not seem interested in becoming more influential than she already will be, so there isn't too much else to note about how you would present the deal, if he can be made amenable in essence about what we desire.
    -[X] We admit that this all hinges on the response and behavior of Lord Tytos Blackwood who has already given insult to his daughter, but we point out reasonably that Lord Hoster was little interested in women before meeting Lady Catelyn, and though he is young and it is quite believable he simply hadn't met any woman with the right combination of intelligence (not empty flattery) and beauty to catch his eye at first blush, given the ongoing enmity between both Houses neither would view such an overture as coming from a place with well-intentions.
    -[X] Furthermore, it is likely that the anger placed toward the Lady is merely a stand-in for Lord Jonos himself, who has by this point made no secret or small bones about those claims he wished to press, or should he fail to in his lifetime, force his daughter Lady Barbara to press in turn.
    -[X] "The blame for all of this cannot, I admit, be cast merely at this old and bitter Warg's feet, but to divvy it up between the both of you implies that either should have known better and suspected such manipulations which had gone unseen for ages. It is as much luck and chance as anything else that even the most ham-fisted of such schemes he plotted did not ultimately result in the destruction of both your lines. It is inconceivable for justice to be rendered for crimes committed by those who suffered just as much at his hand, puppets in a macabre play, as each other who danced to the tune he played sight unseen."
    -[X] "My Lord, it is my sincerest hope that each of our Houses can step into this age more prosperous than in any other, not defined by the blood we've shed but instead, aye, by the trees we've planted and the stones we've lain. What is even the point of all of this if the world around us only remembers us for how quickly we've sewn our own destruction? To best please this beast?"
    -[X] "We are better than that. I know we are, or at least can be, whatever beings such as him think of us, feeble and easy prey to their lies and endless hunger."
 
Part MMMCCXIV: The Weight of Old Wrongs
The Weight of Old Wrongs

Twenty Fourth Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC

"That's not mobile, is it?" you ask, looking at the results of Lya's work. For flesh-crafting performed in a matter of hours it is quite impressive, though you do not think many would appreciate the form. The body looks human in the most general sense, two arms, two legs, all the proportions are right, but that is where the similarities end. It is entirely hairless, the skin unnaturally pale with an unhealthy greenish tint and the joints hang unnaturally loose over the end of the chair, eyes pinkish-red from lack of pigment stare at you through a haze of enchantment. The cat shall be entirely fine, which is more than you can say of Rickard after he had been tricked into this form.

"It's not supposed to, no," Lya shrugs her eyes hard. "We are executing him anyway and I did not want to give him the smallest chance of escape. The things he did..." She shakes her head, as though to dispel memories, though you know she is far too proud of her perfect recall to ever wish forgetfulness upon herself. "I sympathize more with the Hungry Dead, at least they have the excuse of their appetite to feast upon the living. He could have stopped at any time, thought about stopping five times in all over the centuries, just lived and died as man or beast to the end of the body's life, but there was always more vengeance to be had, always another reason to delay death and the judgment of the Old Gods. "

"Were any of those plots recent, anything that needs handling?" you ask, wondering for a moment how you are going to present Rickard to Lords Bracken or Blackwood. This would be a rather more abrupt introduction to flesh-crafting than most get. There is always shapeshifting to make the body seem more fully human. It's not like either of them has mage sight.

"Two that need urgent handling," Lya replies somberly. "Lady Glynda Blackwood's face powder is poisonous, properly poisonous I mean, not the sort of nonsense you find so often in Lyseni circles. Rickard was responsible for suggesting the concoction in the guise of one of her now dead friends. He meant for her to suffer a slow wasting death just as he poisoned the Raventree again, preferably by goading a Bracken into it since he did not wish to come so close to a place the Old Gods were so close to. He knew enough of Greenseers to be wary of one watching. The other is a poison too, but more insidious, arsenic..."

"Ah... stop the poison and watch the victim wither and die." Though you are far from the expert Tyene is in such matters you know that much from your days in Braavos. Many there count it as a poison that was 'good enough' so long as no one had cause to look too hard, so it had half-in-jest developed a reputation of being a gauche means of dealing with one's enemies. "Who?"

"Not who, what, Jonos Bracken's favorite horse, the poor thing, apparently he dotes on horses," Lya replies. "He was going to have that timed to a trader or minstrel coming south and blame them for being Blackwood agents looking to strike at the pride and wealth of House Bracken."

"That doesn't sound like much of a dead man's plot," Dany muses. "A dead horse with no obvious suspect is just a dead horse."

"I don't think he is able to plot for his own death, not after surviving for so long. We shall just have to prove him wrong," you muse with grim satisfaction. "Lady Blackwood is unlikely to suffer any harm from a few more hours with poison among her powders, but Jonos Bracken will undoubtedly wonder what has become of his master of the hunt. I think Stone Hedge is still the wiser first choice to visit."

***​

The Lord of Stone Hedge greets you with a scowl, but greets you he does at least. The letter had given away but little of the cause you had to speak with him, that you have news of enemies of Blackwood and Bracken alike seeking to spark the age old feud for their own aims, mentioning nothing of magic or wargs. "Most kings wait until they have the throne to start trying to make us sit and heel like dogs, as though we did not know our own history and its ills," Thick white eyebrows meet in a stony expression.


"That you know your history I do not doubt, my lord," you reply, passing over the abrasive tone without comment, though noting that he had called you king and inclined that your ascension is a matter only of time. "But I fear that not even were one to bring together the history of House Bracken and House Blackwood would the full truth be revealed for there has been another darker power moving behind it all."

Light waxes in the widow and wine flows in the cups. It takes long indeed to explain what you have learned in a manner he would accept and longer still to prove it, though the empty face of the master of the hunt and even more so the poison in his stables shakes him. "Father above protect us... " he makes the sign of the Seven-Pointed Star over his heart. "I told Catelyn she was imperiling her soul, I told her and she would not listen! Wargs, woods witches, it's all..."

"It most certainly is not all anything, my lord," your mother cuts him off. "It is through the power of the Old Gods that you see me alive today, and many other deeds great and small to the betterment of people throughout Essos. The Old Gods count deeds such as the taking of a man's mind among the most foul, slavery in which the slave's mind is consumed. You might as well say that the Seven are responsible with every crime ever committed with a steel sword because it was the Andals that brought steel to these shores."

"Father... this has to end, for all our sake," Lady Barbara interjects. She had been a calming presence throughout the discussion, the one to close the staring eyes to the huntsmaster, and time and again the one to call on her father to listen, but this time he is not minded to do so.

"No!" he growls. "You said it yourself, Your Grace, it was the deeds of a Blackwood that started this madness. If it had not been for his betrayal this monster would never have dragged our House into its plot for revenge."

"It was also the better part of two thousand years ago, my lord," you interject bluntly. There is a time and a place for that even in diplomacy, particularly of this sort. "I would be careful in saying that the Blackwoods deserve to be hounded for so long, for it does not place you in company that does you honor."

For a moment there is silence, then the old man sighs almost lower than you can hear: "Damn them, and damn me too for a fool." More loudly. "Just how would you see this ended then?"

So you lay out your accounting yet again, as part of formalization of de jure land claims, the Crown's intentions to uphold decided upon claims sorted through upon official establishment of those fiefdoms incumbent to the lords in question, and under Imperial Mandate should any counter-claimant seek to usurp the rightful heir as declared by these terms, in Royal Writ they shall have committed high crimes in accordance to the degree of such egregious breaches. Thus you will uphold Lady Barbara's succession. She will not suffer as history relates to the wary, like Jeyne Arryn or Rhaenyra Targaryen had. To that, of course, he has not objection.

Secondly you offer a city charter to ease trade and direct craftsmanship in a productive manner, though he grumbles at the special economic council to arbitrate that trade and any disputes between the lords. "Essosi nonsense," Lord Jonos calls it, though he obviously has far less objection to foreigners from the east than with the people just across the Red Fork. "It will turn into a pit of snakes all scheming to stab their neighbors in the back."

"Someone is going to have to make those rules to ensure the rise in trade and industry does no harm the land and other matters of common interest. Better that it be a council and not a stroke of the pen from me, surely?" you point out without any particular emphasis, but the message is clear just the same. He nods only a touch sourly.

"Now, as to the matter of Lady Catelyn and young Lord Hoster. I think it would be wisest to see them wed, but not on lands nearby where it might cause contention. I am willing to..."

"I want the boy to apologize to my face, publicly for... ruining her chances of any other match," the lord interrupts. He had obviously been about to use stronger words, but checked himself. "If he wants to wed my daughter he can damn well face me and not hide behind your natural desire to see peace in the Riverlands, Your Grace."

What do you reply?

[] A public apology would be too much of a blow and likely to ignite the very feud you mean to see an end to, offer to arrange a private one

[] Refuse altogether, it is clear that any responsibility for the secret courtship rests with both parties

[] Write in


OOC: Ignore the armor on Lord Bracken, that was the best face I could find for him but he is otherwise dressed normally for a Westerosi lord expecting an audience.
 
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"I want the boy to apologize to my face, publicly for... ruining her chances of any other match," the lord interrupts. He had obviously been about to use stronger words, but checked himself. "If he wants to wed my daughter he can damn well face me and not hide behind your natural desire to see peace in the Riverlands Your Grace."

I don't know why but this irritates me for some reason.
 
This is a good chapter. Finally some history to these plots. If a plot doesn't strech 1000 years i am less intrigued.😂😂
 
[X] "Lord Jonos, the idea for the match was Lady Catelyn's, if not the intent to gain further influence and power by it as Lord Blackwood might assume, and Hoster isn't the sort to come up with this kind of idea. You can take one look in his face and anyone witnessing the apology would be able to attest the same, but laugh at him they would just the same, and all Tytos Blackwood would hear is that laughter years afterward. A private apology, for not thinking things through, for contributing his own part in the folly of youth, that can easily be arranged, if he was not willing to face you directly, maybe weather a spot of reaming over the mess, this wouldn't hold any chance of success. But if we are counting slights right up until the end of this... that slight is going to be the only thing either side remembers." Look at him pointedly. Lord Hoster's mockery is near enough to being Lady Catelyn's mockery. This is just shooting oneself in the foot, as far as it goes.
 
He's being a dad. Let him have his dad moment.

This isn't being a dad. This is being an obstinate prick who wants to add more to the burning trash heap that is the Blackwood-Bracken feud. If he wanted an apology he could have it all dealt with in private. He wants this in public to humiliate the Blackwoods...which helps no one and add more resentment.

I finally realize why I am so irritated now. This dude, after hearing everything that has happened, still wants to stick it to the Blackwoods. Like it isn't bad enough to hear that your entire ancestral line was manipulated to continue a feud that has gone on for a near millennia now but you want to keep adding to it? It is like having your strings cut and still dancing to the dam tune.
 
This isn't being a dad. This is being an obstinate prick who wants to add more to the burning trash heap that is the Blackwood-Bracken feud. If he wanted an apology he could have it all dealt with in private. He wants this in public to humiliate the Blackwoods...which helps no one and add more resentment.

I finally realize why I am so irritated now. This dude, after hearing everything that has happened, still wants to stick it to the Blackwoods. Like it isn't bad enough to hear that your entire ancestral line was manipulated to continue a feud that has gone on for a near millennia now but you want to keep adding to it? It is like having your strings cut and still dancing to the dam tune.

It's Westeros.
 
Honestly, if Hoster loves her as much as it seems he does I don't think he would mind taking humble route if it means they can be together.
 
This isn't being a dad. This is being an obstinate prick who wants to add more to the burning trash heap that is the Blackwood-Bracken feud. If he wanted an apology he could have it all dealt with in private. He wants this in public to humiliate the Blackwoods...which helps no one and add more resentment.

I finally realize why I am so irritated now. This dude, after hearing everything that has happened, still wants to stick it to the Blackwoods. Like it isn't bad enough to hear that your entire ancestral line was manipulated to continue a feud that has gone on for a near millennia now but you want to keep adding to it? It is like having your strings cut and still dancing to the dam tune.

From his perspective manipulation or no manipulation Hoster seduced his daughter (since thanks to a hearty dose of misogyny he can't really see his daughter as having equal agency) so he should pay the piper and not just get rewarded for the deed. Whether that makes it better or worse depends on one's perspective on the greater and lesser sins of medieval lords.
 
From his perspective manipulation or no manipulation Hoster seduced his daughter (since thanks to a hearty dose of misogyny he can't really see his daughter as having equal agency) so he should pay the piper and not just get rewarded for the deed. Whether that makes it better or worse depends on one's perspective on the greater and lesser sins of medieval lords.
And pragmatically, humiliating Hoster would basically just make his daughter come across as a whore.

That's humiliating for her, and humiliating for Hoster. I think this is one of those "oh shit I didn't think about that moments" because of fury at getting wrapped up in intrigues related to this one fucking House.

If this was any other family he would have thought it through even further, if only because Brackens definitely know how to plot things to their advantage, as good as any Blackwood.
 
From his perspective manipulation or no manipulation Hoster seduced his daughter (since thanks to a hearty dose of misogyny he can't really see his daughter as having equal agency) so he should pay the piper and not just get rewarded for the deed. Whether that makes it better or worse depends on one's perspective on the greater and lesser sins of medieval lords.
:facepalm:

Well, that's one more shitty person in the collection.

[X] Crake
 
He's... eh. Less than stellar, but not the worst we've dealt with by far.
 
And pragmatically, humiliating Hoster would basically just make his daughter come across as a whore.

That's humiliating for her, and humiliating for Hoster. I think this is one of those "oh shit I didn't think about that moments" because of fury at getting wrapped up in intrigues related to this one fucking House.

If this was any other family he would have thought it through even further, if only because Brackens definitely know how to plot things to their advantage, as good as any Blackwood.

Yeah, that's Viserys' call on that too, there is a lot of old resentment there and that sort of thing does not just magically evaporate from a few hours of talking.
 
Honestly, I'm just happy we are through with Westeros for this month.

We have God-wrangling, Faceless-bartering, Chosen-swaying things to do, still.
 
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