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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
@Crake, any ideas for a Ting and Adamantine Golem omake? Perhaps a training montage?
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No. No training. It's a little more complicated than that, because that's how he was taught, though it doesn't need to be.

Pursuing martial skill without grasping the underlying lesson means you will either leave disappointed and never advance, or worse, you will master yourself and pollute the world with ill humors.

Admittedly this is much less of a problem for the Iron Golem, since he takes everything in with a childlike credulousness that makes Ting focus more on teaching him how to discern other people's motives.

Edit: To clarify, Ting is teaching them, but it's... unorthodox. Martial skill will eventually come when the person approaches the subject with the correct mindset.

Edit 2: Damn, you made me want to write a Ting Omake. Was getting caught part of your plan?
 
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Crake said:
No. No training. It's a little more complicated than that, because that's how he was taught, though it doesn't need to be.

Pursuing martial skill without grasping the underlying lesson means you will either leave disappointed and never advance, or worse, you will master yourself and pollute the world with ill humors.

Admittedly this is much less of a problem for the Iron Golem, since he takes everything in with a childlike credulousness that makes Ting focus more on teaching him how to discern other people's motives.

Edit: To clarify, Ting is teaching them, but it's... unorthodox. Martial skill will eventually come when the person approaches the subject with the correct mindset.
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Ahhh, he's one of those.

Well, eventually we'll find more trainers or an apprentice will see the truth that a tool is a tool and philosophy is philosophy, much as we have done with our magical initiates.

I get the intent but tying the two to each other when it's not necessary does more harm than good in the long run when people realise they were "lied" to by the "light side" and turn away from it still believing that power and philosophy are inexorably entertwined.

That's how you get Fallen.
 
Deliste said:
Ahhh, he's one of those.

Well, eventually we'll find more trainers or an apprentice will see the truth that a tool is a tool and philosophy is philosophy, much as we have done with our magical initiates.

I get the intent but tying the two to each other when it's not necessary does more harm than good in the long run when people realise they were "lied" to by the "light side" and turn away from it still believing that power and philosophy are inexorably entertwined.

That's how you get Fallen.
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I mean in general I would agree with this, but this is about being a monk, the philosophy and understanding of oneself it brings is in part the source of the power.

Seriously what do you think the in universe explanation for adding wisdom to AC, and the related abilities is?
 
Deliste said:
Ahhh, he's one of those.

Well, eventually we'll find more trainers or an apprentice will see the truth that a tool is a tool and philosophy is philosophy, much as we have done with our magical initiates.

I get the intent but tying the two to each other when it's not necessary does more harm than good in the long run when people realise they were "lied" to by the "light side" and turn away from it still believing that power and philosophy are inexorably entertwined.

That's how you get Fallen.
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The thing is, Ting is an ascetic, or at least, if not an ascetic, was trained by one. He's surprisingly practical for one from a school that eschews possessions and material ties (he is fine with both of those things, but he was from a wealthy clan so this is to be expected).

Abandoning aspects of his Dao and pruning the entire thing down to a tool is from his point of view an easy way to create a bunch of Sith wannabes, which is a real concern only these guys are more dangerous with the lack of corrupting and corrosive influence from where they tap into their power.

Philosophical differences even within a School or Sect is common as anything else.
 
To clarify one thing @Deliste, you can't just cut the whole of being a Monk down to mastery of the body. It's mastery of the body, of the mind, of the spirit, with all three aspects entwined in a holistic doctrine that allows a person to center themselves. The more you understand, the more you can do. Basic training, muscle memory and rote memorization of concepts are present but being that cultivation is a thing in this setting probably only the boring, less focused on portions of the whole concept of being a Monk.

It is possible to treat the whole thing like a means to an end and decide to utterly pursue self mastery in order to achieve self-actualization through the means of advancing ones goals or path to power, but this reinforces habits the same as an ascetics moral philosophies would reinforce habits.

Needless to say, this tends to create a ruthless individual with a lot of ability to cause harm to others. While the Imperium can channel that, and you will likely encounter some of those, Ting finds it to be deplorable. No getting around it.
 
Smartphone said:
I mean in general I would agree with this, but this is about being a monk, the philosophy and understanding of oneself it brings is in part the source of the power.

Seriously what do you think the in universe explanation for adding wisdom to AC, and the related abilities is?
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The man himself says it's possible, he just fears the consequences but the fear is misplaced in my opinion, see below.

Crake said:
Abandoning aspects of his Dao and pruning the entire thing down to a tool is from his point of view an easy way to create a bunch of Sith wannabes
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In a vacuum sure but you can teach both aspects separately rather than making one a requirement of the other when that's not necessary.

Trust in your students to learn your lessons but don't put advancement behind philosophical paywalls.

As I said, we are training Specs, Clerics, Wizards and Archivists.

It would be the height of arrogance and folly to assume your teachings of how to punch hard are any more likely to corrupt, or give any greater ability for harm than these full caster classes.
 
DragonParadox said:
So I thought for a while about making this post because I'm not quite sure how to begin, I don't want this to feel like I'm fishing for compliments or reassurance but it everything OK with the quest guys? Are things still interesting to play or am I am I pushing in a less interesting direction?

I've noticed there is less investment than usual recently or at least that is what it feels like to me and I'd like to know your thoughts on the matter as well as any suggestions you might have for improvements.
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I just wanted to say that I'm still reading and enjoying the Quest, and personally loovvee the Westeros politicking bits myself. Irl has hit me with several things recently (including wedding planning, doing ceramics again) so I've just got less time
 
Crake said:
To clarify one thing @Deliste, you can't just cut the whole of being a Monk down to mastery of the body. It's mastery of the body, of the mind, of the spirit, with all three aspects entwined in a holistic doctrine that allows a person to center themselves. The more you understand, the more you can do. Basic training, muscle memory and rote memorization of concepts are present but being that cultivation is a thing in this setting probably only the boring, less focused on portions of the whole concept of being a Monk.

It is possible to treat the whole thing like a means to an end and decide to utterly pursue self mastery in order to achieve self-actualization through the means of advancing ones goals or path to power, but this reinforces habits the same as an ascetics moral philosophies would reinforce habits.

Needless to say, this tends to create a ruthless individual with a lot of ability to cause harm to others. While the Imperium can channel that, and you will likely encounter some of those, Ting finds it to be deplorable. No getting around it.
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Understood, which is why I didn't bother trying to change his opinion.

I fully understand the rationale and perspective, I just disagree.




I believe the leaders of our Empire, Viserys, his companions and his advisors and Imperial mechanisms all the way down the chain would also disagree because we have implemented a philosophical disagreement in the way we train our spellcasters etc.
 
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I'm not disagreeing by saying that ambition and pragmatism are inherently concepts that we couldn't utilize, but A) Those guys tend to be really hard to wrangle because again, the concepts that achieve this proper state of mind that has advanced far along the martial path enough to meaningfully teach the concepts necessary to create a Monk, in turn create more utterly ruthless individuals.

And B) Remember, at the end of the chain, a Monk becomes an Outsider. This is relevant at all stages, it's not possible to do a thing like that without metaphysics being involved in each stage of advancement.

Edit: Yes, it's really just for how he's treated in terms of effects, but honestly I find it utterly silly that it doesn't change their metaphysics if they enjoy all the benefits.

Edit 2:

Ahem, also, if you want my opinion of Ting's students on an institutional level, I would say that all the benefit it provides is on a fluff level, but also you will likely find quite a few more altruistic monks wandering around thanks to him who help people out, likely without a reasonable expectation of compensation (though many that might still appreciate it thanks to Ting's laxity on that subject matter).

I totally understand if we end up with exclusively employing pseudo-Sith just because we possess a preference for individuals who advance along paths we have pruned for them in advance and having no squeamishness over doing "what needs to be done in the name of King and Country".

The only price we pay for that is the occasional rogue agent who can thresh his way through an army of mundanes, but well, what's that compared to a rogue archmage, honestly? :V
 
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Crake said:
@Goldfish Speaking of which, is there any chance of replicating spell effects to create Lightsabers as weapons in D&D? :V
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All sorts of spells can accomplish a light saber-like effect, depending on what kind of output you want, fire, force, shadow, etc., and how much you're willing to pay. And then there is the really deadly stuff, like the Black Blade of Disaster, which is basically a Sphere of Annihilation in sword form.
 
Crake said:
@Goldfish Speaking of which, is there any chance of replicating spell effects to create Lightsabers as weapons in D&D? :V
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A tiny living disintegrate spell hit with faerie fire and held in shape with control ooze, then levitated in front of the user's hand (or rather an at will control rod with those three spells).
I'm sure we'd find a version that isn't more lethal to the user than their opponents ...eventually.

Edit: or, since we're making stupidly dangerous toys, just cast fly on the ooze and use it like a sword as an affectation.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
A tiny living disintegrate spell hit with faerie fire and held in shape with control ooze, then levitated in front of the user's hand (or rather an at will control rod with those three spells).
I'm sure we'd find a version that isn't more lethal to the user than their opponents ...eventually.

Edit: or, since we're making stupidly dangerous toys, just cast fly on the ooze and use it like a sword as an affectation.
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Well, that creation process is inline with actual lightsabers being, in fact, stupidly dangerous toys. :V
 
@Goldfish Are we still crafting "Graduate" kits for Journeymen mages? Have you... kept track of that at all? I know you made some of them for a handful of mages, but come to think of it, our influx of soft cap mages each turn is growing.
 
Deliste said:
@Artemis1992

I see you're around, I'd like your thoughts on making something of Flowering Lattices with advancement/templates if you don't mind.

I envision them as eventually growing all throughout our urban centres.

100 recycled fungus forge HD would get us 600 of the base creature.
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I've been meaning to ask is that thing like a grafted plant or some new species. Either way can it seem new ones over time or do they always have to be made?

Also would it be popular as fashion or in the Plane of Earth and the Plane of Air?
 
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Crake said:
@Goldfish Are we still crafting "Graduate" kits for Journeymen mages? Have you... kept track of that at all? I know you made some of them for a handful of mages, but come to think of it, our influx of soft cap mages each turn is growing.
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We're caught up on all the mages who made it to 5th level before this month, but haven't been able to craft any this month for those who we learned reached 5th level in the last Scholarium report. I'll have to go back and compile hard numbers on them when I get a chance.

Starting next month, I want to get back on that. The gear isn't super expensive by our standards now, but makes a 5th level mage much more effective in a number of ways.
 
Abhishek M said:
I've been meaning to ask is that thing like a grafted plant or some new species. Either way can it seem new ones over time or do they always have to be made?
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It's a created species but there's nothing to indicate it can't propogate, it just struggles in environments lacking "rich soil and ample pollinators".

Our urban environments should provide both with its ability to move to ideal locations.
 
Deliste said:
@Artemis1992

I see you're around, I'd like your thoughts on making something of Flowering Lattices with advancement/templates if you don't mind.

I envision them as eventually growing all throughout our urban centres.

100 recycled fungus forge HD would get us 600 of the base creature.
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If we could do something about those things being mobile, they could be used to provide a huge quantity of nutritious food for relatively little expense or effort.
 
Deliste said:
@Artemis1992

I see you're around, I'd like your thoughts on making something of Flowering Lattices with advancement/templates if you don't mind.

I envision them as eventually growing all throughout our urban centres.

100 recycled fungus forge HD would get us 600 of the base creature.
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I see no reason to advance it, the Pollen would be irritating as it is.

I'd sooner go the opposite direction, tune it down from plant creatures to regular, though magical, plants.

Having a high production of tasty fruits with a Goodberry effect is great, having mindless plant-monsters that shoot blinding pollen crawl through our streets is less good.

Edit: Faceless fishes from beyond reality!!!
 
Also we really haven't talked about this much. But weve got a second Fungus Forge now. One that doubles as a flesh forge and has higher CR limits to boot! We gonna make a few higher CR monsters too?

Because that one has the Draconic template and Spliter Drakes are a thing. Not True Dragon thankfully but dank it but it would make a combat focused parallel to the Heralds. Stack a couple templates on that bad boy and itd make a good Legion heavy hitter.

Also anyone think there are any Saguaroi in Dorne? And if so would Oberyn do one?
 
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