Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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- Location
- some computer lab
I think that telling would probably keep us trust neutral, on the one hand, stupid umgi wizard bit off more than they could chew, on the other hand, they decided to tell a dawi about it like a reasonable person.
- Location
- Singapore
Ok, so if Mathilde is convinced she is a risk in the professional opinion of Kragg the Grim, the expert against Greenskin gods, she'd do the honorable thing and sit out? The risk calculus for a safety-first Mathilde should hole herself up in the treasury room because of the miscast risk versus linking up with the force invading Karak Nar, to a certain extent also applies to Mathilde choosing to disclose versus keeping silence. If the risk indeed exists, then remaining silent is a rather rash action given Mathilde just lectured Panoramia on risk.
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- Location
- Aotearoa
No, I don't think Mathilde, we, consider ourself to be especially at risk. I've never meant to say that.
Mathilde is Brave, confident. The thread throws ourselves into risk. I don't think that's a concern we suffer from.
It's all about our perceived reliability as a spy, assassin, and confidante- those are high-trust roles.
Mathilde is Brave, confident. The thread throws ourselves into risk. I don't think that's a concern we suffer from.
It's all about our perceived reliability as a spy, assassin, and confidante- those are high-trust roles.
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- Location
- some computer lab
we are drinking, we're just doing it with either Johann or Skaroki.
More like we'll be doing ambient level drinking instead of highlight of the evening drinking.
Given that the end result was Mork losing power and Ranald a god of an order faction gaining it, seems to me we'd be more reliable.
- Location
- Singapore
If that's the case, I'd rather come clean with Belegar and Kragg rather than implicitly betray Belegar's trust by omission. And I think Mathilde has enough nobility in her not to indirectly break the trust given to her by concealing information. In any case, I still mantain that the fact that we fought off a possesion increases our reliability, rather than reduces it anyway. But even if it's not, Mathilde is acting as the bigger witch by disclosing such potentially pertinent matters.
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Stranger1950
Worth It
- Location
- Reverse Side of the World
I get the feeling that a good chunk of the people who support for telling Belegard and Kragg are basing a good chunk of meta knowledge such as the existence of Chaos Dwarf. Honestly, IC wise, I feel that Mathilde would have more reason to keep silent than fully disclosing what she experienced. Sure, keeping a secret isn't a must for Ranald, but it's the norm. Telling that she was possess is also generally something that she would want to keep quiet. We know that it's probably a one time thing, but how would Mathilde and the Dwarves fully know that it is a one time thing. The fact that it was possible in the first place prove that Mathilde is vulnerable and that it shows a sign of weakness for the usually reliable magister.
Also, to be honest, I don't know how will Belegard and Kragg react to this. I get the feeling that we might need to roll for their reaction and it is entirely possible that a repeat of what happened with Roswita might happen here (i.e. rolling low for reaction). Sure, we can hope things go well, but in the same time, this can backfire on us spectacularly. Like, I dunno here, I feel that a lot of the argument for telling the dwarves is that they deserve to know about the chaos dwarves. But I just can't really see it being that worth it. They can't do anything at the moment, fighting the chaos dwarves is simply not worth it (considering the threat of greenskins and skaven taking priority), it might piss the dwarves off to a possible new level if they don't know, and it might be a sensitive topic if the dwarves actually already know about this.
In the same time, what does Mathilde gain from telling them this. Yes, it shows a sign of faith from her and the dwarves might react positively to this. However, one of the two dwarves that we are disclosing to does not like us, period. This is not like the other dwarves that has been pretty friendly to us or at least respect us in some way. Kragg is a dwarf that flat out thinks almost everything is a disappointment, Mathilde included.
In the end, we are taking a risk by telling the two most highest ranking dwarves in this expedition for gains that we honestly not even sure of. Of course, if everything went well, then we can happily join in the festivities and later fighting without much issue. But if their reaction was more negative than expected, all we did is shooting ourselves on the foot. I for one is a pessimistic person, so I'll choose the more safer option. But considering that the disclosure vote might win, I really hope that things do turn out well and that is just our paranoia whispering voices to our head in the end.
Also, to be honest, I don't know how will Belegard and Kragg react to this. I get the feeling that we might need to roll for their reaction and it is entirely possible that a repeat of what happened with Roswita might happen here (i.e. rolling low for reaction). Sure, we can hope things go well, but in the same time, this can backfire on us spectacularly. Like, I dunno here, I feel that a lot of the argument for telling the dwarves is that they deserve to know about the chaos dwarves. But I just can't really see it being that worth it. They can't do anything at the moment, fighting the chaos dwarves is simply not worth it (considering the threat of greenskins and skaven taking priority), it might piss the dwarves off to a possible new level if they don't know, and it might be a sensitive topic if the dwarves actually already know about this.
In the same time, what does Mathilde gain from telling them this. Yes, it shows a sign of faith from her and the dwarves might react positively to this. However, one of the two dwarves that we are disclosing to does not like us, period. This is not like the other dwarves that has been pretty friendly to us or at least respect us in some way. Kragg is a dwarf that flat out thinks almost everything is a disappointment, Mathilde included.
In the end, we are taking a risk by telling the two most highest ranking dwarves in this expedition for gains that we honestly not even sure of. Of course, if everything went well, then we can happily join in the festivities and later fighting without much issue. But if their reaction was more negative than expected, all we did is shooting ourselves on the foot. I for one is a pessimistic person, so I'll choose the more safer option. But considering that the disclosure vote might win, I really hope that things do turn out well and that is just our paranoia whispering voices to our head in the end.
- Location
- Austria
Mathilde: NEEEEEERD
Which'd be perfectly rational if it were Chaos possession. Mind, if we were possessed by actual demon, we'd probably be panicking way more.
We are not panicking now because, uh, Mork? Possession? What?
It's a pretty unique set of events, and I think Kragg knows enough about possessions to realize such too. He'd probably be weirded out by this even being a thing that can happen. Not that he will show it.
Bet there'll be more partying after Citadel is taken. We can get proper drunk then.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
IMO keeping someone's trust by lying to them is something you should only do to your enemies or people you're trying to manipulate. Not your friends or those you yourself trust.
- Location
- Aotearoa
I mean Mork, implacable enemy god, was speaking with our voice.
Using our hands to kill a priest and shatter an Idol of Only Gork.
These are Things That Would Concern Me, if my Master Assassin told me.
We know Mathilde isn't honest, despite being Loyal. She uses the truth when it's helpful- to her aims, or even to her lieges. Not telling people things is not at all the same as lying, in my view of how Mathilde thinks.
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For me, the biggest reason to tell is to get more positive exposure for Ranald. Possibly even enough to get a shrine put in the place the ritual happened. Dont really see any major impact from the chaos dwarfs thing.
I would not really call Mork an implacable enemy of the dwarfs. I mean sure the dwarfs are his implacable enemies, but Mork like Gork kills people in good fun.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The main arguement of the last few pages for the stay silent supporters has been based on meta knowledge about Chaos Dwarfs and Kragg's reaction to them even being brought up by Mathild accidently.
She went there to do exactly what Mork had her do. There was no major change in what she did there, just a change in how she did it, but one that wasn't completely outside the norm for her save for the words she said. Using a greatsword to kill an Orc is a thing she does. If that's as bad as the posession gets its not that bad.
CuttleFish2.0
Friendly neighborhood cuttlefish
- Location
- Seattle, Washington.
I mean part of the main argument, from the beginning, for telling has been that we'll get read in on the Chaos Dwarf secret. That's meta as shit as the Chaos Dwarves are unknown to basically anyone outside of the Dawi themselves.
- Location
- some computer lab
letting the dwarves know that we saw weird sorcerer dwarves making at least one greenskin type is not ooc, and IMO Mathilde is probably more likely to think that the extremely honest dwarves simply don't know about it rather than them trying to supress this information.
I know guild secrets are a thing, but Mathilde has no reason to believe that the dwarves would keep the existence of dwarf sorcerers secret
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
Performing a service to Ranald is among the most probable actions, given the current votes. That cat is getting out of the bag disclosure or no.
- Location
- Internet, The
As someone else said, those are different things. He can have knowledge of greenskin gods without having to compare them to ancestor gods. His divine knowledge may also much closer fit Ranald, who is sort-of an ancestor god. Thirdly, the main issue is Mathilde's soul, not the gods. He may know how to find out if a soul is damaged.
I think you are using that word differently to how I use it. I find it completely logical, if alien. It's not what I would do, but it is not irrational. It may be suboptimal for my value system, and a damn waste at that. But I consider it perfectly rational.
Correction: They promise they will go and kill them eventually. Drakenhof has kept standing for many centuries, and I don't think that was because they killed all the dwarves that tried to attack it.
This is a series of assertion without a logic chain I can follow. Why does this specific thing throw them for a loop, as opposed for any other grudges they cannot immediately resolve? Is there any canon example of this?
!?
What the hell???
Sorry, I don't know too little of the setting to understand you. I have read no novels or rule books. I'd love to be able to either share your belief or dismiss it, but I just lack the knowledge. I am left to blindly trust you, or to not trust you.
Apologies for being unclear: Reporting on important events and doings is the normal thing to do when reporting on what you did. This was an important event, therefore the usual action would be reporting it, unless something stops her from doing so.
Her choice in reporting or not reporting has not been arbitrary. If you specifically want to include or not include something, there needs to be a reason for including or not including it.
I don't care about the glory.
Thank you, that is very helpful. I didn't see you posting any of this before, so thanks for reposting. That certainly seems to support them acting irrationally angry, but even here they did no more than getting angry and then continued working together with Teclis. I'd be fine with that outcome.
Interesting tidbit. Certainly different from secretly talking to a (temporarily) subordinate dwarf-friend.
Good points.
The opposite, isn't it? People want her not to mention them because OOC they consider them to be a berserk button. In character, there is no clear reason to avoid it, and even the OOC reason is suspect.
I can certainly see her not wanting to show even a small weakness.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I don't disagree. I just think sharing this event will be helpful to both Belegar and Mathilde, and I don't see how staying silent would instead be helpful.
- Location
- Goose Land
[X] Remain silent.
- Location
- Aotearoa
That feels unfair to my arguments, which don't relate to Chaos Dwarves at all.
Doesn't matter that the outcome "wasn't so bad", if "piloted by Mork" is considered a vulnerability.
It's how Belegar has to assess the risk of what might happen.
- Location
- Earth
Alec apparently gets really, really invested in this stuff, and by his own words the terror of something going horribly wrong has been keeping him up and on the brink. To the point of not going to bed. This is apparently a known issue, according to @veekie . Let the man rest. Which is also why I didn't tag him here.
On another topic, the last time I checked in we were losing, badly (8-9 votes), but I guess all the arguments weren't in vain. Thank you everyone.
Both sides have some good points, and both sides also used some less than valid ones. Don't let a quest keep you up at night folks.
Your health and safety comes first.