OOC I am really kind of peeved at all these people who seem to ignore the half a dozen examples of the Iapgyians betraying peace deals, each other etc etc. Like, it's a stereotypical trait that these people constantly backstab each other until we tie their interests to ours as Hegemon with bribes. I can't help but feel people have forgotten the absolute clusterfuck that has been every peace deal we have made with them when we haven't literally put our boot to their neck and presented them with death or lots of money and power as our servants.
Letting someone who has constantly been known as treacherous have a land border with us long term and the ability to finally centralise his power and conspire with our vassals seems like kind of a stupid idea in hindsight of any of the deals we've made with them where we weren't literally presenting them death as the other option
Indeed, while Goros seems to know what is up, and is a reliable ally (even if he does have his own motives). I have not been impressed with the other kings. The Dauni king pulled off a Red Wedding. That does not impress me, nor does it make it likely he will honor any agreement. Arthais is less threatening, but I think we would do better to make him an ally with smaller territory, and begin making friends with the Messapii people, not just their aristocrats. Friendship with a people is more reliable, since it doesn't risk changing when one king dies and is succeeded by another.
I thought that maybe being presented with the heads of men killed at a peace deal and told 'Make a peace deal with us guys' by someone he has always claimed was a major threat and everybody listening to that 'warlord' might've caused the warmonger to get loud and enraged.
Yup, definitely not trustworthy.
There is a lot to take in, but what Heliodoros is most curious about is the so-called 'collapse of the old consensus' that appears to be occurring with the fracturing of the demes.
Poor Antipatrids. They have not been having a good time of it.
Also, this, it's all but been explicitly said to us that our decision on Hypia will have repercussions in our internal politics. I say we must choose the path that does not give weight to the aristocrats. If people remember the first quest, there used to be a risk that the aristocrats would overthrow the democracy. I think we will be reopening that risk if we continue to support the barbarian aristocrats in their oppression of their people.
And why should we care? We made it clear in front of all the Gods that we would not tolerate mischief among them when we took them into our family. They have tested the line and must now be used as an example that the rules of Eretria are not to be trifled with.
A Patriarch must punish his children when they fought amongsts themselves, to favor one over the other and exempt them from such a discipliining would only encouraging discord and disorder in the household.
Yet you yourself are arguing that we favor the aristocrats over the commoners. The commoners here are
respecting our authority. They have asked us to make peace between them and their brother. You are suggesting that we should turn a blind eye and allow the biggest child to dominate and oppress the smaller child. That does not sound like a good patriarch.
The displeasure of Taras is far lighter to bear. We have bested their armies in worse times, when we did not have half of the Italiotes of note as our allies nor the friendship of Athens (which I am sure would help us if their friend and grain exporter appeared threatened by a colony of Sparta that ships grain to their enemy). It truly did make sense to seek Tarentine friendship when we were threatened by the malignant star of an ascendant Syrakousai that seemed likely to feast itself upon our largest ally, the Sikeliote League; however, the new Sicily lies instead under the shadow of our ally, our allies are strengthened and greater in number in italy, and now looms the prospect of a friendly Athens. We are strong enough to face Taras, should it come to it; we must be bold and embrace the opportunity to preserve and expand an Eretrian Adriatic.
Taras is nearby, their hostility will be a greater burden.
We seem to be working under the assumption that the Path of Pain mean immediate war but that isn't necessarely the case. For all we know they're is as much chances it mean a continuation of the situation we have right now, with tensions running high but no large scale conflict until something else happen to trigger it.
Actually, I think immediate war would be the best choice. While we have other enemies, right now they are all laid low and cannot support the Duani in an immediate fight. Even the Samnites are exhausted and in no position for a war right now.
In fact, as I recall, the whole way we succeeded in subjugating the Peuketii in the first place was when they sent us an ultimatum, and we rejected all the paths of peace or negotiation, and the assemby instead forced a declaration of war over the wishes of the leaders, and we then crushed them.
It looks to me like a repeat of that for us now. We won't have a better time for war with the Dauni than right now.
I just lifted almost half a dozen powers that could cause issue enough to open a window of opportunity for the Dauni, and that's before we also bring up vassal revolt and internal strife.
None of which are available right now. In a four to five years they will be. Make war now before the Dauni can gather allies.
Do we actually care about holding all of the Dauni when we know we'll need to break it up even in the event of subjugating all of it? Seize Salapia and Herdonia and we've got the vast majority of what we want out of the picture, pin them up in their other fortifications for a while, and incentivize the Peuketti to sack, pillage and slaughter to their hearts content. Make this a war not of territory, or subjugation, or even annihilation. But a war to break the back of the Dauni's population and economy so that they'll be easy prey to return to or ignore at our leisure. Scorched Earth and Fabian tactics do a lot less when devastation and depopulation of the countryside is the attacker's goal.
And Salapia and Herdonia are the least likely cities to demand a full scale siege and some of the easiest to supply our forces at. Razing Auscula would just be lovely bonus objective that's unlikely to be viable.
Yes, I don't think we need to conquer them all right now, just suppress them.
I would point out however, that if we want war with the Dauni, then we really should not be allowing the Messapii to war among themselves. We need the forces of Hypia and Artahais to make war on the Dauni, not each other.
