[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
 
You put too much faith in Artahias and wish to see him the same as the old King of Peuketti. The differences between the two are stark, The old king gained at the expense of Eretrian Enemies, Artahias gains at the expense of Eretrian Vassals. The old King proved his honesty with deed, Artahias schemes in deed.

You see the revolt as against Eretria, and would mistake the aristoi as Eretria. They are not Eretria and we should not be foolish enough to name their excesses as Eretrian. Because it is they, the aristoi, not the common Hyrians, who would exploit it at our expense.
I have no faith in Artahias. I simply have faith in the gods and the mighty shield walls of Eretria and Taras. The Messapii are a broken people, if he wishes to lead them on a suicidal attack we shall gladly end him. He poses no threat to us.

The people of Hyria revolted because they feared us, their saviors. They threw out their aristoi because they served us. You sophistry does not change those facts. Hyria is not a friend, Hyria is disloyal and ingrate and thus they must be punished as we swore we would to the gods under the eyes of all of Italia.
 
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
 
I have no faith in Artahias. I simply have faith in the gods and the mighty shield walls of Eretria and Taras. The Messapii are a broken people, if he wishes to lead them on a suicidal attack we shall gladly end him. He poses no threat to us.

The people of Hyria revolted because they feared us, their saviors. They threw out their aristoi because they served us. You sophistry does not change those facts. Hyria is not a friend, Hyria is disloyal and ingrate and thus they must be punished as we swore we would to the gods under the eyes of all of Italia.

If you have no faith in Artahias, then why allow him to have a dagger at our back? Why reward a man who creates disloyalty? Why reward a man who fosters war? Why reward a man whose excesses break the skirmishers and cavalry who serve as the spear to pair with Eretrian Shields?

Every sin you say Hyria has induldged in idiocy Artahias has induldged in Greed, in Shortsightedness and in Ambition. And yet you would indulge him.

Will we as Eretrians aid the Aristoi who would grow at our expense, or the people who would fight at our side?
 
"Had we caught Pueketti chieftains conspiring with the Dauni, we would have surely put them to death as well. The treachery of doing so at a reconciliation feast bodes poorly, but then we have no cause to trust the Dauni and the Dauni have no cause to trust us. We have only reason to guide our interests, and reason says that Eretria has no interest in a bloody and prolonged war against the Dauni. War with the Dauni offers little gain and much hardship, and does not play to our advantages as a naval power. And to say we have no enemies while we are likely to make an enemy with our choice of the treaty is naive. War with the Dauni is the wrong war, at the wrong time, and for the wrong reasons.

And the barbaroi being human can reason themselves, and have come to the conclusion that war with Eretria means death. That I feel more confident in than any pledge to any god or goddess that their King might make."
"You expect reason from the descendants of those we have butchered and defeated time and again?

Where was the reason when the Messapi broke their oath to Artemis and turned against us despite the wealth we had given them?

Nevertheless, there is reason to betray us. They would gain land, ports, coin, revenge and a thousand other things for stabbing us in the back.

It is only reasonable, from the perspective of a Barbaroi noted for their treachery, to turn against and butcher a potential enemy. Those who were only just murdered were willing to make peace, in exchange for freedom to trade with Eretria, something that would've enriched all the Dauni. Where was the reason in slaughtering them?

There is no such thing as true peace or arête for the Dauni Murderer. As we have seen displayed time and again.

The Peuketii have shown they are willing to lie to us, the Messapi squabble for power, their serfs and lessers seethe in resentment.

If a war comes, and Eretria turns away, it is only reasonable to stoke this resentment, abuse this desire for power and strike the undefended back.

You speak of reason, as though Peace is the only recourse of the reasonable. As though neither side gains anything at all from war.

There is land, glory, revenge, coin, salt and more.

Denying the fact we have that which they want and see as theirs, overlordship of the Iapgyians and resources, and that they have things we truly desire, their salt and an end to the threat they represent, is in defiance of the reason you claim to represent!

So speaks Ajax, The Spiteful"

OOC I gave Ajax a nickname because several people noted IC how offensive his initial dialogue was, not sure if it works, but I like to think it gives him more or an identity and stops me from having to write out his lineage and position every time.
 
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This is the main issue I draw with your Dauni argument.

Firstly the belief that the Samnites will immediately jump on us straight away after the war is a bit far fetched, as are some of the Dauni's claims of total war, their leader is not well loved and I doubt his vassals will all be willing to burn down their own fields like that and go full total war.

Next is the fact we don't really get access to their riches, or secure our border, every treaty the Iapygians have made with us has been broken publicly. If anything this is a public sign of us backing down. The Dauni King delivered us the heads of our surest allies in his lands and threatens us. We back down immediately.

That seems a lot weaker than us telling him to shove it and sharpening our spears for a future war. Especially when the constant treachery of his and the Iapgyian Kings before him are examined and taken into account.

The Tarentine Peace Faction is also in charge at the moment, and busy dealing with controlling their ocean and increasing their naval power, as long as we don't piss them off before an election too much, we should be able to leverage their defeats against us not even a decade ago to keep them in check, especially as they're literally rebuilding a section of their docks and most of their fleet even as we speak because we kicked the crap out of it in said previous war.
We don't have a good response to the Samnites as of yet and particularly not if we have just conquered the Dauni. If we were to conquer the Dauni, we would undoubtedly ravish that land in the fighting (particularly the defenses that they would use against our attacks) and we would have a great multitude of Dauni serfs who hate us in that land. Well, if a territory right next to the Samnites has been transformed from a well-defended and settled land into a recently conquered mess with destroyed defenses while there are a ton of native people accustomed to the area being robbed of all their prior wealth and forced into our service... what do you think becomes their logical next target? The agriculture is already disturbed, it's hard to keep an organized watch on the land and round up local farmers to shoo away shephards if the local farmers have been killed or taken into bondage. The Oscans have previously made great effect of promising natives revenge and a small share of the loot against their captors, and we'd leave ourselves wide open for that. And Eretria's military would be bloodied from the years of fighting Cetashwayo has stated would occur from any attempt to subjugate the Dauni, leaving us in a weakened state.

So they killed some traitorous vassals? They're not our formal, public allies; these nobles were a tool for undermining the Dauni, one which they excised. I don't mind if we don't get as much of their salt as we would in directly exploiting it, we have plenty of more lucrative trade options to pursue already that don't require the undertaking of a major war and opening up a vast, weak frontier with some really bad dudes while we have so many other plates to balance.

But to reiterate, my main concern is Athens. It is a bad idea to spurn that naval Titan that far exceeds us for the sake of intermediate land power Taras. We can best Taras in a fair fight, and have actually stacked the deck to be rather against them, but if Athens turns against us we are terrifically screwed and can see the rug of our entire burgeoning league pulled out from under us.
 
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[X] [Hyria] Grant Hyria autonomy and Artahias allyship [+5,500 freemen providing tributes and levies including heavier infantry, Artahias becomes a loyal Eretrian ally rather than vassal].


"My fellow Eretrians, I would extol you to search your memories. Last year, with the rescue of the citizens of Kymai, we created a myth. It is a myth akin to those that surround the Spartan warriors after their defeat at the Hot Gates; it informs the world who we are.

"That myth was one of Generosity.

"How is it generous of us to condone the sacking of Hyria after they have asked us directly for their aid? They rebelled against the man who calls himself King of the Messapii, but they had that right! Artahias was never acknowledged as overlord of the Messapii through Eretria's grace. His interference in their affairs is a naked grab at the power that Hyria's deposed nobles have squandered.

"All of us acknowledge the right of the poor and impoverished to demand the best of the aristoi that rule over them and serve them in turn. It is the most fundamental law; as a father and husband looks after the needs of his children and wife, they offer him support. The deposed nobles of Hyria abandoned this sacred law and abused those under their protection. In such situations where the citizens of a polis is abused or threatened, we know the answer: lithokratia, the Rule of Stones. The citizens take power into their own hands, praying wisely to the gods that their collective will shall be salvation. This is the tale of our foundation and how our wise forefathers threaded the needle between prosperity and ruin.

"It is not even to that extreme that the people of Hyria acted! They still maintained the leadership of the aristoi that supported and valued the citizenry there! To call them treasonous is a step too far.

"It is for this reason, your better natures, that I ask you support Hyria. If we plan to take advantage of the myth that we have birthed, we must live up to it.

"For those whom require a more tangible encouragement, I offer this: we have secured Brention and Hyria as direct vassals, 40% of the Messapii population. It is almost certain that Caelia will follow them, since that city is cut off from Artahias' territory by Brention and Hyria. Caelia is closest to us of all Messapii cities barring our long-loyal vassal Egnatia. For them to depend on Artahias would defy common sense.

"This selection is the best portion of the Messapii population. Hyria is their great cultural center and largest city. Brention is the only suitable great port in their portion of Epulia. Without those two great bulwarks of strength, the Messapii will wither over time. They have their cavalry and their farm land, but they will lose their cultural significance and be barred from all sources of external wealth. We have seen that it is external trade that makes a polis grow great; the Messapii under Artahias are right now offering to give this up! If they come entirely to rely on Eretria and Brention for their import needs, all the better! We can drain them of precious silver that they cannot replace and add it to our own coffers!

"Artahias becoming an ally costs us very little. He will still be obliged to follow us in war as an ally and the manpower the Messapii provide is the central reason why we have vassalized them. The tribute they produce is worth perhaps five talents a year based on what the Peuketti offer; a single trade route provides near three times what that tribute is worth. The only thing we lose by allowing Artahias to be an 'ally' is a pittance in silver we use many times over each year.

"Five talents a year in exchange for the infantry that once defeated the might of Eretria and the securing of our new myth is more than worth the price."

(OOC: When Rome went about establishing their dominance, they had a huge number of 'allies' that they depended on. These allies were typically mixed in with direct vassals to help divide them up for easier management. Both vassals and allies were required to provide levies for Rome, while the latter were exempt from taxes.

This is the exact situation we would be creating if we took Hyria under our wing and combined it with Brention, we would be splitting the Messpaii's power forevermore, but with the most powerful of their cities directly under our rule. This is a very standard divide and conquer tactic and still gets us everything we want, a pacified southern hinterland with all of their required manpower. The only thing that we lose our on is a tiny amount of tribute and we've, in the past, already acted to ensure our tribute was as low as it could possibly be.)


[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].

"With the Dauni, we have missed the chance for war. In the time of our children and grandchildren, I suspect that there will be war with these people, but it is not this day.

"In the future, I foresee Samnite eyes turning towards the Dauni, seeing them as new lands to conquer. It will take a generation or two after the Samnite successes in conquering Campani, but they will again grow too populous for their lands and seek to migrate across the fields of others in the future. It is in that moment of weakness, after the Dauni have been forced to fight the next Samnite migration, that we shall be able to strike and finally cut them down to size.

"In the meantime, we should rebuild what was destroyed in Salpai and Herdonia. We used to have friends among those settlements, but do not any longer. It was those friendships that would've allowed us to split the Dauni confederation and reduce them to our vassals. Without that underlying, local backing, the only way to get the Dauni to submit is to destroy them utterly. That will take more years and more effort than I am willing to expend.

"Once trade has been established, once we have built up a salt monopoly, then we shall be able to draw Salpai and Herdonia into our orbit again. We shall be able to offer them protection, in that distant future, and they shall know we are able to provide it. It is only after that groundwork is reestablished or the Dauni enter a moment of weakness that we shall be able to vassalize them."


[X] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].

"I don't think any man would call me a friend of Athenai — the arrogant twits — but we should sign their treaty. I fear that they shall not appreciate it if we were to reject them. Alkibides strikes me as a man who takes far more than he can safely chew. He has burned all bridges possible in Sikelia through his arrogance and twisted skills. What is to stop him from turning those skills upon us? We saw him embarrass Syrakousai and engineer the destruction of the Sikels. What is to stop him from turning that cunning upon us? The Peuketii, the Epulian League, and the Messapii are loyal now, but how much trust do you have for them? If Alkibides comes with silver in hand, will they refuse to sell their grain or loyalty to them? If Alkibides uses the rejection of a treaty he knowingly crafted to be difficult as a cassus belli, shall we be forced to fight the might of Athenai?

"By increasing the amount of grain we export to Athenai, we further increase the dependency they have upon us. They become invested in our safety and our success. It would always be possible for them to follow through on their threat and import grain through the Bosphorous, but that will take time. It takes only months for a man to starve; far less time than it would take to establish new grain routes.

"If we require Athenai's aid against Korinthos, this is how we shall obtain it. If we seek to install a friendly government in Epidamnos, or to integrate the other Adriatic Greeks into the Epulian League, Athenai will be inclined to aid us, or at least keep Korinthos from opposing us.

"It is true that this disturbs Taras, but they can be approached and calmed. A treaty of trade and friendship is not an alliance. We have no desire to make war on Athenai so their friendship is fine to receive. To oppose them would mean founding a truly Italoite League, something that is simply not feasible at the current time. Calming Taras is much easier to achieve than trying to convince them to work with us as a bulwark against Athenai intrusion.

So says Iander Long-Speaker

(OOC: I think that Alkibides taking an interest in us for our grain is very dangerous. He was the driving force behind the Syrakousai Expedition IRL and that was something he could easily cause to happen, except in Epulia. I would be very hesitant when he pays attention to us. An Epulian expedition would mean 5,000 hoplites landing on our shores, plus reinforcements; it would utterly overtax our ability to oppose.)
 
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[X] [Hyria] Grant Hyria autonomy and Artahias allyship [+5,500 freemen providing tributes and levies including heavier infantry, Artahias becomes a loyal Eretrian ally rather than vassal].

[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].

[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].


- i would rather aid the commoners and the Black Goat
 
"I believe it is far better to have the Messapii under us rather than on equal ground. We should allow their king to deal with the foolish Hyrians. I say we leave Brention and the Kretans alone, else what would be the point of allowing them to settle in Brention?"

[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].

"As for the matter of the Dauni, who is to say they will keep their word? Their vile king is a known snake in the grass, waiting to strike. Should we turn away now, he will be given a far better position to bite us and we would have less of a chance to stop the bite. He even presented us with the heads of the kinder Dauni nobility! If he will desecrate his own people, what will he do to the good people of Eretria and the Epulian league?"

[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].

"As for the Athenians, I cannot say I am an expert for our stance for relations with the powers back in Hellas. I am young, and to see their blatant arrogance sets a fire within me, one of anger but I calmed myself. Instead of allowing this anger to overcome me, I will turn it into an effort to beautify our city! I will make Athenai seem like a minor polis compared to the wonders of Eretria's statues and art! Though, back to what is at hand, Seeing their inflated hubris fills me with distain for the Athenians and to hear how the lack of unity in their city disappoints but alas! The more I think about this, the more I see both advantages and disadvantages. So I have decided that instead of voting on this, I will allow the rest of the Ekklesia decide upon this, I leave it to the respected members, whom are my elders and have far greater wisdom and knowledge to decide what is right for Eretria and Athenai.

Finally, I ask my fellow citizens to look at our greatest ideal in Eretria, Unity. I urge my fellows to cease their arguments and instead to argue their point in a fair and respectable manner to each other, lest we act like the despicable Dauni who always mistrust one another. I urge the members of Demos Antipater to put aside their bickering for the good of the polis. Should we fight the Dauni, we will do so together, side by side. Should we end up fighting the Messapii, we will do so together, side by side. Should we even end up fighting Athenai, we will do so together! Side by side!

So say Timoxenos the sculpter"

(Well, took me awhile to think this up and then to put it into the words of an Ancient Greek sculpter, hope everyone enjoys this and hope it isn't too much of an eyesore!)
 
I cant help but notice that some people seem to fear going to war, not liking to take a chance at it or even consider it for some reason. I even somewhat understand why but going to War with the Dauni can only benefit Eretria in the end. It would end the one northern threat who we share borders with, who have shown to be utterly untrustworthy time and time again and who should not even be that strong of an opponent. As was said before by others here, the Dauni King doesn't seem to be well liked by all of his subjects. Giving him time to secure his hold on the Dauni as a whole with a peace treaty would only make him all the more dangerous.

Again I would like to point out that accepting it would agitate our disgruntled vassals and even others to believe Eretria weak by backing down.

On the Messapi thing, Artahias's power depends on Eretrias favor. He loses that he loses his hold over the Messapi. He cant revolt against us atleast not anytime soon especially now that they cant field any army that would in any way be an opposition to Eretria's. Allowing him to deal with the revolt should show him that we trust him enough to deal with it and should he be unhappy with the situation with the Satyr we can work on appeasing him in the future.
 
I cant help but notice that some people seem to fear going to war, not liking to take a chance at it or even consider it for some reason. I even somewhat understand why but going to War with the Dauni can only benefit Eretria in the end. It would end the one northern threat who we share borders with, who have shown to be utterly untrustworthy time and time again and who should not even be that strong of an opponent. As was said before by others here, the Dauni King doesn't seem to be well liked by all of his subjects. Giving him time to secure his hold on the Dauni as a whole with a peace treaty would only make him all the more dangerous.

Again I would like to point out that accepting it would agitate our disgruntled vassals and even others to believe Eretria weak by backing down.

On the Messapi thing, Artahias's power depends on Eretrias favor. He loses that he loses his hold over the Messapi. He cant revolt against us atleast not anytime soon especially now that they cant field any army that would in any way be an opposition to Eretria's. Allowing him to deal with the revolt should show him that we trust him enough to deal with it and should he be unhappy with the situation with the Satyr we can work on appeasing him in the future.
I'm not afraid of going to war, if I think it benefits the polis for the risk it brings. I don't think war with the Dauni does that. It may indeed end the northern threat of the Dauni themselves, but that threat is immediately replaced by two- the Samnites and Frentani, who seem to be much more challenging for their nature as herders who can readily move to melt in the mountains or come down with their herds on long campaign compared to the Dauni who are more easily kept in check. As you yourself said, the Dauni are not actually that strong; I do not overmuch fear them, especially given how we have ample local land allies. If the question is of trust in the northern neighbors, would you trust the Samnites not to take advantage of any similar difficulty that would inspire the Dauni to invade? The Oscans have a nasty habit of invading peoples when they're vulnerable- see how the soft Oenotrians were wiped off the map by the Bruttii, how old Kymai and the southern Etruscans had their system of serfdom ruined by revolution sparked with the invading Campanians, how civil unrest in Poseidonia led a local Lucanian chief to gain his seat of Paestum. You're not getting any more trustworthy northern neighbors by invading the Dauni. In return for years of corpses and struggle and a massive Oscan frontier, we get serfs and salt to hold onto as the rewards. Which is OK, but directing the same effort into expanding trade can get us all manner of commodities without as much of the blood- or at least the blood is taken at sea, where we exchange it far more favorably.
 
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[X] [Hyria] Grant Hyria autonomy and Artahias allyship [+5,500 freemen providing tributes and levies including heavier infantry, Artahias becomes a loyal Eretrian ally rather than vassal].

[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].

[X] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
 
I'm not afraid of going to war, if I think it benefits the polis for the risk it brings. I don't think war with the Dauni does that. It may indeed end the northern threat of the Dauni themselves, but that threat is immediately replaced by two- the Samnites and Frentani, who seem to be much more challenging for their nature as herders who can readily move to melt in the mountains or come down with their herds on long campaign compared to the Dauni who are more easily kept in check. As you yourself said, the Dauni are not actually that strong; I do not overmuch fear them, especially given how we have ample local land allies. If the question is of trust in the northern neighbors, would you trust the Samnites not to take advantage of any similar difficulty that would inspire the Dauni to invade? The Oscans have a nasty habit of invading peoples when they're vulnerable- see how the soft Oenotrians were wiped off the map by the Bruttii, how old Kymai and the southern Etruscans had their system of serfdom ruined by revolution sparked with the invading Campanians, how civil unrest in Poseidonia led a local Lucanian chief to gain his seat of Paestum. You're not getting any more trustworthy northern neighbors by invading the Dauni. In return for years of corpses and struggle and a massive Oscan frontier, we get serfs and salt to hold onto as the rewards. Which is OK, but directing the same effort into expanding trade can get us all manner of commodities without as much of the blood- or at least the blood is taken at sea, where we exchange it far more favorably.


I mentioned this a few posts ago but if it's the Samnites we are worried about, forming a defensive pact with the Lucani and/or Fretani, Taras and other factions south of or west of the Samnites could be an option, a very likely one even. As for the Dauni not being strong enough to probably win a war with us, it's true as you yourself agreed however while they probably cant threaten us in warfare they could easily use the time we give them with a peace deal to harm us in any other number of ways. Inciting revolts among our vassals being one of the things I can think about out of the top of my head. Furthermore it would also give the Dauni King time to unite his subjects and strengthen the Dauni until he *is* a threat.

Considering we've been ignoring them for quiet some time now, allowing them to grow even more is simply dangerous.
 
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Without resuming the whole debate on how big, exactly, the Samnite threat is I do feel it is fair to point out that the Dauni depicting as a big deal isn't much of an evidence. Of course they will do so: they want us to accept their offer, that at least is clear, so they will obviously seek to use any arguments at their disposal to do so.

On another note, and as much as I disagree with him often, I will have to echo @Kipeci call to rethink matters in regard to the treaty with Athens. Yes, I can understand why the immediate reaction might be too refuse but the benefit of staying on Athens good side are simply too great, and the risk to not do so too dire, ESPECIALLY now that we are one of their main source of wheat, for any other choice then to accept the treaty to make sense IMO. Even victory Syracuse and her democracy emerged profoundly weakened from the Sicilian Expedition.
 
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Hmm, could we have a motion to pressure Artahias into implementing some sort of land reform/curtailing the worst excesses of the nobility, in exchange for us backing him against Hyria? Make it clear that while we are willing to support him, that the situation has progressed to open revolt is a bad sign and our support is contingent on him doing something about the people's unhappiness.
 
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[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
 
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
 
Teutan already told us how the Dauni plan to wage their war. We do not have any ready counter to a policy of scorched earth in the middle of their country requiring long supply lines to support lengthy sieges. We have no better siege techniques than constructing a ramp, and we would have multiple cities and fortresses to siege. The war could drag on for years, quite easily.

Or maybe the Dauni would crumple because their King isn't really popular but we don't know that, and he's already had the chance to remove the most obvious troublemakers, and there's going to be a natural tendency to rally to him in defense against Eretrian invasion.
 
Teutan already told us how the Dauni plan to wage their war. We do not have any ready counter to a policy of scorched earth in the middle of their country requiring long supply lines to support lengthy sieges. We have no better siege techniques than constructing a ramp, and we would have multiple cities and fortresses to siege. The war could drag on for years, quite easily.

Or maybe the Dauni would crumple because their King isn't really popular but we don't know that, and he's already had the chance to remove the most obvious troublemakers, and there's going to be a natural tendency to rally to him in defense against Eretrian invasion.
He just murdered them publicly when they were negotiating peace with him, has only just had time to put some of his people in place, probably missed several of those who oppose him in those cities alone, is described as unpopular last we heard of it, to the extent a few bribes managed to get most of his soldiers to refuse his call to war last time, and I doubt that the other cities would be so quick to burn their own fields for the sake of this guy, when even the Messapi saw the Peuketii as prosperous and were more willing to make a deal because of it.

Like, there's the possibility we'll face stiff resistance, and for sure the Capitol will resist fiercely, but the Dauni are right next door, to the extent we have a decent sized city right on the border, and the evidence seems to suggest the others could be swayed more easily than the threat suggests and that they might not be as willing to follow through with the promise of total war even if they do resist...

I'm not saying the war might not have complications, but I am saying the Iapgyians are known for trickery and have pulled off bluffs before. This has all the hallmarks of a bluff, be shocking, brutal and overemphasise your point to try and scare your opponent into compliance.

It's been effective on several occasions in history, but, from the evidence I see, it definitely looks like it's just a bluff.
 
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Not accepting the peace doesn't mean we immediately go to war.
It just means we keep the option to do so open while maybe preparing for the inevitable, and yes while the Dauni King may have just killed those who openly sided with Eretria that alone should get him into some form of trouble with either their families or other Dauni nobles who dont want a King who just murded some of their own because they didn't agree with him
 
We seem to be working under the assumption that the Path of Pain mean immediate war but that isn't necessarely the case. For all we know they're is as much chances it mean a continuation of the situation we have right now, with tensions running high but no large scale conflict until something else happen to trigger it.
 
I mentioned this a few posts ago but if it's the Samnites we are worried about, forming a defensive pact with the Lucani and/or Fretani, Taras and other factions south of or west of the Samnites could be an option, a very likely one even. As for the Dauni not being strong enough to probably win a war with us, it's true as you yourself agreed however while they probably cant threaten us in warfare they could easily use the time we give them with a peace deal to harm us in any other number of ways. Inciting revolts among our vassals being one of the things I can think about out of the top of my head. Furthermore it would also give the Dauni King time to unite his subjects and strengthen the Dauni until he *is* a threat.
We've been given zero indication of the Lucani or Frentani being interested in such an alliance or diplomatic relations with us at all. The Tarentines are not effective allies against them because they're heavy infantry closely bounded by the logistics of what they can bring and most effective in tight formations on flat ground, which is a bad matchup against them. We are way too far to coordinate well with the likes of the Ausones or Volsci against them, even if they don't instinctively pull the 'lol get wrecked Graecos' response that Cetashwayo earlier said would have been their effective response if we tried to get them to help out when Kymai was under attack. I would really rather not rely on allies that we not only don't have but don't have any sort of relations with whatsoever when we commit to bordering a certain enemy.

That threat of the Dauni looming is to me comical. When the Dauni and their Iapygian cousins were far stronger and attacked Eretria together, we threw them all in the dumpster. If they bide their power? Well, we're getting new colonies and massive immigration all the time while they're relying on natural growth... and they also seem to have a rather defensive strategy and investment lined up to protect from the Oscans, given their focus on fortifications. That means something of a split focus, and if they're insincere about their intentions it wouldn't be hard for our traders to make out the construction of southern forts and the like. As to vassal revolts, well, consider how this revolt would immediately dissolve on Eretrian disapproval or else the king would be forced to accept their autonomy if Eretria approves. Our vassals are very weak. Should they revolt, it's a good excuse to confiscate their lands and place in either more strictly subject vassals or to settle our own people who can fight their way out of a paper bag.

Considering we've been ignoring them for quiet some time now, allowing them to grow even more is simply dangerous.
It has been a long while since they posed an existential threat to us, and our relative growth rates make it seem unlikely that this will occur again.
 
Actually they posed a major threat less than a decade ago during the Salentine war
By having us split our focus against the more dangerous Tarentines or else letting them raise havoc among the small Epulian League cities of the north when we'd rather they didn't, yes. However, that's piggybacking off of a much stronger power slugging it out with us, not posing an existential threat in their own right.
Since then, Taras got severely bloodied and are at least nominally friends of Eretria; Eretria has only grown further in power, stature and allies (the existing ones also now being less distracted and strengthened). Please name the power with whom the Dauni now combine with to make a terrible threat to us; surely if the Dauni intend to be treacherous and invade us but are not strong enough to do it on their own, they have some sort of power that they would intend to strike us down alongside.
 
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