They haven't rebelled against us. They over threw their aristoracts that were reducing them to grinding poverty. They have appealed to us for protection!
Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
-
- Tags
- ancient greece alternate history empire builder civ quest democracy gods save us granary management hubris it's an eretrian thing. let lose the weasels of war lithocracy lithocracy is my fetish maximum hellene my big fat greek divine wedding this granary aint gonna fill itself cetash unwinnable
They haven't rebelled against us. They over threw their aristoracts that were reducing them to grinding poverty. They have appealed to us for protection!
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
- Location
- Mists of Albion
All you foolish Hellene who want to make a deal with the Tyrant who started negotiations presenting us the heads of the people who had wanted to open civil negotiations with him are foolish Peace mongers
I spit upon your pretentious of wisdom, lack of arête and will laugh when the knife is plunged into the backs of your grandchildren, will raise a toast as your daughters are dragged away and dance around the bonfires of your crop fields
How many times have I noted the danger of the Dauni? The dishonesty of their lord? Their ability to enact treachery? You think that the descendants of such a warlord will not take advantage similarly of our next moment of apparent weakness? That they will not think they have intimidated us with their threats and in fact conspire more?
Eretria first went to war against the Iapgyains deliberately because of a plot they had made with the slaves in secret, after peace had already been agreed to after the landing.
Again and again we have seen them conspire and plot our downfall, use trickery against each other and us and give false platitudes, slaughtering each other in peace conferences, at feasts and betraying each other for power.
The Messapi betrayed their oaths to Artemis, the Peuketii plotted with our slaves to butcher us in our homes, the Dauni killed their own lord and now have continued such a thing with their vassals. Our own vassal lords have deceived our trust for decades for the sake of coin and now you think we can trust them? That they only threaten war because we are a threat to them?
I declare any man who takes the Path of Peace a fool, a disgrace and one who has failed to look at history, the nature of their foe and the reality of the situation.
This warlord does not have honour, nor did his forefathers, now you seek to let the wolf inside the home and expect him not to strike when the Greek sleeps.
I will take my leave of this assembly should such a disgraceful option win. Already my previous warnings and pleas to defeat the Dauni while we could were not headed, now if you will not heed my warnings of their nature, I cannot help but condone all that will occur to you all because of it.
So speaks Ajax, son of Lalage, Ekdromoi of Eretria.
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
OOC I am really kind of peeved at all these people who seem to ignore the half a dozen examples of the Iapgyians betraying peace deals, each other etc etc. Like, it's a stereotypical trait that these people constantly backstab each other until we tie their interests to ours as Hegemon with bribes. I can't help but feel people have forgotten the absolute clusterfuck that has been every peace deal we have made with them when we haven't literally put our boot to their neck and presented them with death or lots of money and power as our servants.
Letting someone who has constantly been known as treacherous have a land border with us long term and the ability to finally centralise his power and conspire with our vassals seems like kind of a stupid idea in hindsight of any of the deals we've made with them where we weren't literally presenting them death as the other option
I spit upon your pretentious of wisdom, lack of arête and will laugh when the knife is plunged into the backs of your grandchildren, will raise a toast as your daughters are dragged away and dance around the bonfires of your crop fields
How many times have I noted the danger of the Dauni? The dishonesty of their lord? Their ability to enact treachery? You think that the descendants of such a warlord will not take advantage similarly of our next moment of apparent weakness? That they will not think they have intimidated us with their threats and in fact conspire more?
Eretria first went to war against the Iapgyains deliberately because of a plot they had made with the slaves in secret, after peace had already been agreed to after the landing.
Again and again we have seen them conspire and plot our downfall, use trickery against each other and us and give false platitudes, slaughtering each other in peace conferences, at feasts and betraying each other for power.
The Messapi betrayed their oaths to Artemis, the Peuketii plotted with our slaves to butcher us in our homes, the Dauni killed their own lord and now have continued such a thing with their vassals. Our own vassal lords have deceived our trust for decades for the sake of coin and now you think we can trust them? That they only threaten war because we are a threat to them?
I declare any man who takes the Path of Peace a fool, a disgrace and one who has failed to look at history, the nature of their foe and the reality of the situation.
This warlord does not have honour, nor did his forefathers, now you seek to let the wolf inside the home and expect him not to strike when the Greek sleeps.
I will take my leave of this assembly should such a disgraceful option win. Already my previous warnings and pleas to defeat the Dauni while we could were not headed, now if you will not heed my warnings of their nature, I cannot help but condone all that will occur to you all because of it.
So speaks Ajax, son of Lalage, Ekdromoi of Eretria.
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
OOC I am really kind of peeved at all these people who seem to ignore the half a dozen examples of the Iapgyians betraying peace deals, each other etc etc. Like, it's a stereotypical trait that these people constantly backstab each other until we tie their interests to ours as Hegemon with bribes. I can't help but feel people have forgotten the absolute clusterfuck that has been every peace deal we have made with them when we haven't literally put our boot to their neck and presented them with death or lots of money and power as our servants.
Letting someone who has constantly been known as treacherous have a land border with us long term and the ability to finally centralise his power and conspire with our vassals seems like kind of a stupid idea in hindsight of any of the deals we've made with them where we weren't literally presenting them death as the other option
Last edited:
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
Truly you have enlightened us! We womanly eretrians would never have realized the error of our ways had you not called us all cowards before the assembly! Lo, now that your low oratory has been laid before all the polish! Teach us wise one! Tell us the will of the gods and the return of our manhood!
Why had no one told us we were cowards before? Oh, perhaps it is because to charge headlong into every conflict and obstacle is to court hybris and invite the retribution of the gods! A sign of impiety and arrogance the gods will sure punish us for!
- Location
- Southern Virginia
"If belligerent speech could conjure food in the middle of a wasteland or open the fortresses of the barbaroi, then Ajax son of Lalage would be a formidable Strategos indeed. As the matter stands, to wage war upon the Dauni to complete their conquest would be a costly effort at best. We know all too well the difficulties of mounting a siege for even a few months and here would have to mount many sieges for many months while our fields go untended the whole while. And the Dauni have many fortified settlements away from the sea, with many cavalry and light-armed men with which to harass our supplies. They have declared their willingness to fire their fields so that we might not obtain any fodder or grain from their lands. I see no reason to doubt that they will resist fiercely, even if not to the degree their young Prince proclaims. And what would we gain?
Ajax claims we would have a secure border. And yet what we know of the Samnites says otherwise. Shall we then be compelled to conquer them as well for our security? And having conquered the Samnites, shall we be forced to press on against even more obscure peoples so that we can put our boots on the necks of all the barbaroi of Italia? How many talents would that cost? How many Eretrians would be required to keep our boots on those necks? More than exist today, I should imagine.
The Dauni have not waged war on Eretria in many years. And yet we have spoken in the Assembly, constantly, of the need to conquer them. If we cannot trust their word, and they have no reason to trust us, we may instead appeal to reason. If we forswear any ambition to conquer them, and they have admitted we can destroy them in war, then neither of us has any cause to seek to harm the other. Perhaps the Dauni might turn on us if we are distracted, but consider our current circumstances. Italia is unstable, and the Great War of the Athenians and Spartans may break out again at any moment. We have unrest among our vassals that the Dauni could exploit. If we go to war with the Dauni then how many other parties might exploit our distraction? And too, should the Samnites turn on the Dauni they would need to fear our efforts to undermine them in turn. We should then give this peace a chance so that we might, as we have with the Peuketti, learned mutual trust from mutual interest.
In any case we have far better opportunities to pursue than another war with the Dauni, which will profit the city in glory and coin to greater degree. Such is the view of Phokion Aristedeis of the matter at hand."
Ajax claims we would have a secure border. And yet what we know of the Samnites says otherwise. Shall we then be compelled to conquer them as well for our security? And having conquered the Samnites, shall we be forced to press on against even more obscure peoples so that we can put our boots on the necks of all the barbaroi of Italia? How many talents would that cost? How many Eretrians would be required to keep our boots on those necks? More than exist today, I should imagine.
The Dauni have not waged war on Eretria in many years. And yet we have spoken in the Assembly, constantly, of the need to conquer them. If we cannot trust their word, and they have no reason to trust us, we may instead appeal to reason. If we forswear any ambition to conquer them, and they have admitted we can destroy them in war, then neither of us has any cause to seek to harm the other. Perhaps the Dauni might turn on us if we are distracted, but consider our current circumstances. Italia is unstable, and the Great War of the Athenians and Spartans may break out again at any moment. We have unrest among our vassals that the Dauni could exploit. If we go to war with the Dauni then how many other parties might exploit our distraction? And too, should the Samnites turn on the Dauni they would need to fear our efforts to undermine them in turn. We should then give this peace a chance so that we might, as we have with the Peuketti, learned mutual trust from mutual interest.
In any case we have far better opportunities to pursue than another war with the Dauni, which will profit the city in glory and coin to greater degree. Such is the view of Phokion Aristedeis of the matter at hand."
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I did what I felt was IC for the rather hotheaded Ajax
This is what I am actually saying, and doing it somewhat more politely, 'kind of peeved' isn't anywhere near the vitriol of Ajax. The insults and mocking are meant to deal with Ajax's IC anger and resentment, he's a strong supporter of the Exorians, a soldier and someone who has for (IC) Years supported the destruction of the Dauni.
I thought that maybe being presented with the heads of men killed at a peace deal and told 'Make a peace deal with us guys' by someone he has always claimed was a major threat and everybody listening to that 'warlord' might've caused the warmonger to get loud and enraged.
In real life, I don't particularly like it, or think we can trust anything this guy is saying whatsoever and that it's got a bad precedent, the Iapgyians constantly betraying peace deals, with the one we made with the Previous Messapi King, where we allowed a towns population to migrate, costing us loot, payed him good money to fight Taras and swore on Artemis herself, still leading to betrayal.
But I'm honestly not gonna leave the quest (as Ajax threatens to leave the Assembly) or actually insult people over it.
It's IC speech for the years of frustration and feelings of betrayal I think Ajax would feel.
Sorry if that apparently upsets you.
Last edited:
- Location
- Hell
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
Ooc: I know I am speaking with the voice of Arkadios.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Please put quotes or italics around IC speech to make it clear you're speaking IC.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I used this
Is that good enough or should I still use italics or quotations to make sure?
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
It is just a general statement. More for Vesca.
dontpressenter
Irrational Philosopher
- Location
- An alternate universe not unlike our own...
I think it's probably better to be safe than sorry in any case.
There is a lot to take in, but what Heliodoros is most curious about is the so-called 'collapse of the old consensus' that appears to be occurring with the fracturing of the demes.
Poor Antipatrids. They have not been having a good time of it.
There is a lot to take in, but what Heliodoros is most curious about is the so-called 'collapse of the old consensus' that appears to be occurring with the fracturing of the demes.
Poor Antipatrids. They have not been having a good time of it.
Last edited:
@Cetashwayo
What exactly do the terms of a 'friendship treaty' with Athens entail? Is this a general statement that we align with Athens and generally support them, but doesn't officially bind us?
What exactly do the terms of a 'friendship treaty' with Athens entail? Is this a general statement that we align with Athens and generally support them, but doesn't officially bind us?
- Location
- Mists of Albion
"I see you, who speaks so surely of peace, of the resistance of the Dauni.
Do you truly think the people will happily follow the Warlord who butchered their fellows at a Feast for Peace? A man known to not truly be popular? Do you truly think the new lords installed along our border have the loyalty of their underlings and less than a dozen men is the extent of the conspiracy? That these new landlords won't have the families of those murdered rise against them? That the Dauni lords who do not look fondly upon the Tyrant will gladly burn their fields for him?
A Samnite neighbour may bring raids, which we have not seen despite our borders with them, a Samnite neighbour brings the possibility of invasion one day in a distant future, but that invasion is inevitable with the Dauni, who have coveted our Iapgyians lands and subjects for many years, who have conspired betrayal before and who's race has a great history of such.
The Dauni will attack. They have a history of doing so, and the only thing that stopped their assault during the Salentine war was the resistance of their lords, who are now slaughtered. That is the reason they have not warred with us for many years, that and that alone, and that is not a problem any longer due to their treacherous butchery.
You say we have nothing to gain. We have a definitive enemy to remove permanently, the Messapi and Peuketii are being absorbed easily enough, outside of managing their greed for each other's lands, so the possibility of using wealth, and such tactics as we have done before are definitely not out of the question. Already others look enviously at the prosperity of our Peuketii subjects, and previously the Dauni lords were willing to turn to us in exchange for coin. And lastly, you forget the Salt. Those salterns which are valuable and so precious the Dauni Kings were ready to cause the outrage of two of their vassals rather than allow Eretrians to trade it, let alone access it more directly.
You say our enemies may take advantage? What foes could? Sicily is distracted, Taras is ruled by the peace faction, the Illyrians are humbled, the Etruscans are distracted, the Samnites look to the West for the nonce and Athens is distant and our other Greek foes are distracted by the tidings of another Great War.
The only foes we have to face now are Iapgyians, and I seek to face them and take them.
We have salt, coin, safety and power to gain via this war.
So much more than trade and 'peace' with yet another treacherous Iapgyian Warlord
So speaks Ajax"
OOC: I get what you are saying, I really do, and I agree, this war will not be easy, not as easy as Ajax is trying to present it anyway....
But I truly feel as though, aside from the very slight possibility of Athens, we don't really have many enemies now, and if we make the right choice the Messapi issue won't be an issue for too long. Further I will note the Path of Pain doesn't say we have to go to war now, it just keeps it as an option for foreign policy in the election. So if you're still feeling insecure about possible enemies at the end of the term, you can try and convince people to put it off.
Last edited:
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[X] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
Last edited:
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Hyria] Allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria [+10,900 freemen providing tribute and levies, Hyrian revolt is crushed and Artahias becomes an Eretrian vassal just as the Peuketii].
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
Begone Athens! We are not boys to be buggered by the likes of you!
[X] [Dauni] The Path of Pain [Eretria will continue to recieve options relating to war against the Dauni, there will be no easing of hostilities].
[X] [Athenai] Refuse the Treaty [Taras will be extremely grateful, Athenai will be unhappy, Eretrian grain trade may be superseded in favor of the Bosporos].
Begone Athens! We are not boys to be buggered by the likes of you!
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
And why should we care? We made it clear in front of all the Gods that we would not tolerate mischief among them when we took them into our family. They have tested the line and must now be used as an example that the rules of Eretria are not to be trifled with.
A Patriarch must punish his children when they fought amongsts themselves, to favor one over the other and exempt them from such a discipliining would only encouraging discord and disorder in the household.
"It is mistaken to allow Artahias to subjugate Hyria. He uses this moment to gain in power at the Expense of the Eretrian future.
First, Hyria has risen up in revolt in the name of Eretria. That, oh that is what we should encourage as Eretrians, not squash.
Second, It allows Artahias to exploit our spirit of generosity. Artahias has taken this moment of general chaos to secure his own power at the expense of Eretria and the Eretrian way. We should not reward him.
The problem then is what to do instead. I propose that the best option is to push Artahias into Allyship with eventual incorporation into the Epulian league, and grant Hyria autonomy or maybe league membership outright. Hyria has taken up arms in Eretria's name. We also would be seeing Hyria shift to a more Eretrian style of government. Both we should reward greatly. Neither should be punished with Barbaroi heel.
Give Artahias no land. He does not deserve more servants.
We should curtail his Ambitions because next he will turn them towards Eretria.
So says Panikos, The Rower."
First, Hyria has risen up in revolt in the name of Eretria. That, oh that is what we should encourage as Eretrians, not squash.
Second, It allows Artahias to exploit our spirit of generosity. Artahias has taken this moment of general chaos to secure his own power at the expense of Eretria and the Eretrian way. We should not reward him.
The problem then is what to do instead. I propose that the best option is to push Artahias into Allyship with eventual incorporation into the Epulian league, and grant Hyria autonomy or maybe league membership outright. Hyria has taken up arms in Eretria's name. We also would be seeing Hyria shift to a more Eretrian style of government. Both we should reward greatly. Neither should be punished with Barbaroi heel.
Give Artahias no land. He does not deserve more servants.
We should curtail his Ambitions because next he will turn them towards Eretria.
So says Panikos, The Rower."
- Location
- Mists of Albion
"We're not Sparta! Allow man to lie with man and share their knowledge and passions!
Herodion One Eye is, and always shall be, the greatest of Eretria Hero's and yet he lay with a man and was loved by that man in turn!
At the end of his life, he requested that they be laid to rest, side by side.
We are not Athens, and I too wish their meddling to be refuted by our Ekklesia. But leave the pure love between men out of this"
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- Him/He
''I am a man of the Exoria and yet I voted for Obander Eupraxis. I voted for him not once but twice and while I rejoiced of what came of his first term I find myself amiss at what may have happened to the man who met success during the first while the second was following its course.
Why did wise Obander believed his time as Xenopralector was well served by going to Athenai if he seek to have as little contact with the city as possible? How could the man who ended Syrakousai ambitions of hegemonia over Sicelia be caught blindsided by Alkibiades as he was? Why had he not, especially since he profess to now want nothing more then to find peace in his country estate, put polis above demos and tell Antipater the Younger, who I pray will find the wisdom that he now seem to lack, that Obander and not Antipater was Xenopralector?
While the wisdom he had shown in other matters will ensure that Obander will be well remember by Eretrians never would he now be able to pretend to be the equal of the heroes who lead the city in stormy first years.
And yet none of these questions answers will provide us assistance in dealing with the matters at hand, and they need dealing.
On the matter of the Dauni, the question before us is simple: do we trust the word of Ausculos or not? While some believe otherwise the Exoria has never sought to conquer the Dauni by simple battlelust or by desire to obtain new tributaries. No, we advocated for an eventual war against the Dauni because we believed them to be a threat. We believed that never would the House of Arpus truly live at peace with Eretria, would always seek the right moment to strike and would always conspire with our tributaries, and the very word Ausculos have proved our suspicions right in this last regard.
The peace proposed could lay the Dauni threat to rest, if Ausculos can be trusted. Therefore, the question remain: can he?
The fate of our friends in Herdonia and Salapia has already answered this question and accepting Ausculos offer will simply provide them greater discretion as they are planning our downfall.
At last we come to the matter of Athens. I was among those who warned this Eklesia on the perils of spending too much of our time, strenght and treasury on the Adriatic. And yet it has nevertheless come to pass and what has been accomplished must be protected, for how could we hope to keep what we have build on the sea in the face of the might of Athenai? And how could we fear loosing it if they would stand behind us?
Moreover, they're exist a risk that Athenai will seek to simply take by the strenght of her hoplites and triremes what we will not sell. Should that come to pass the city would be in grave peril and against such an expedition even victory would profoundly weaken our polis.
May we therefore accept the treaty, in spite of all the risks, for refusing would surely mean facing ones even more dire.''
So spoke Nikephoros the Hoplite, Son of Lysandros.
Why did wise Obander believed his time as Xenopralector was well served by going to Athenai if he seek to have as little contact with the city as possible? How could the man who ended Syrakousai ambitions of hegemonia over Sicelia be caught blindsided by Alkibiades as he was? Why had he not, especially since he profess to now want nothing more then to find peace in his country estate, put polis above demos and tell Antipater the Younger, who I pray will find the wisdom that he now seem to lack, that Obander and not Antipater was Xenopralector?
While the wisdom he had shown in other matters will ensure that Obander will be well remember by Eretrians never would he now be able to pretend to be the equal of the heroes who lead the city in stormy first years.
And yet none of these questions answers will provide us assistance in dealing with the matters at hand, and they need dealing.
On the matter of the Dauni, the question before us is simple: do we trust the word of Ausculos or not? While some believe otherwise the Exoria has never sought to conquer the Dauni by simple battlelust or by desire to obtain new tributaries. No, we advocated for an eventual war against the Dauni because we believed them to be a threat. We believed that never would the House of Arpus truly live at peace with Eretria, would always seek the right moment to strike and would always conspire with our tributaries, and the very word Ausculos have proved our suspicions right in this last regard.
The peace proposed could lay the Dauni threat to rest, if Ausculos can be trusted. Therefore, the question remain: can he?
The fate of our friends in Herdonia and Salapia has already answered this question and accepting Ausculos offer will simply provide them greater discretion as they are planning our downfall.
At last we come to the matter of Athens. I was among those who warned this Eklesia on the perils of spending too much of our time, strenght and treasury on the Adriatic. And yet it has nevertheless come to pass and what has been accomplished must be protected, for how could we hope to keep what we have build on the sea in the face of the might of Athenai? And how could we fear loosing it if they would stand behind us?
Moreover, they're exist a risk that Athenai will seek to simply take by the strenght of her hoplites and triremes what we will not sell. Should that come to pass the city would be in grave peril and against such an expedition even victory would profoundly weaken our polis.
May we therefore accept the treaty, in spite of all the risks, for refusing would surely mean facing ones even more dire.''
So spoke Nikephoros the Hoplite, Son of Lysandros.
Last edited:
- Location
- Vicksburg, MS
I know we're all feeling passionate here after the most recent news, but we should still soberly consider our situation. Winning Athens to our side as a genuine friend is the greatest coup possible for our naval, trade-focused empire. Athens has ruthlessly crushed the ambitions of Korinthos as a side effect of persecuting their war, leaving their massive navy too craven to sail for the Adriatic and allowing us our chance to expand; this could be all the more easily done to us, should our politics appear to threaten the supply of grain that they have invested so much into securing. It would be an easy thing for Athens to shear away every tributary of ours and demand grain of them with its grand fleet, turning our most vital paths of trade into ambushes for pirates- we must not tempt them to consider this idea! With Athens on our side, we buy security from them and Korinthos (against whom we would be able to act against without fear of repercussion due to absurdly overwhelming naval dominance), the greatest threats to our entire Adriatic empire. If we instead decide in favor of Taras, it is rather imperiled by the displeasure of Athens.
The displeasure of Taras is far lighter to bear. We have bested their armies in worse times, when we did not have half of the Italiotes of note as our allies nor the friendship of Athens (which I am sure would help us if their friend and grain exporter appeared threatened by a colony of Sparta that ships grain to their enemy). It truly did make sense to seek Tarentine friendship when we were threatened by the malignant star of an ascendant Syrakousai that seemed likely to feast itself upon our largest ally, the Sikeliote League; however, the new Sicily lies instead under the shadow of our ally, our allies are strengthened and greater in number in italy, and now looms the prospect of a friendly Athens. We are strong enough to face Taras, should it come to it; we must be bold and embrace the opportunity to preserve and expand an Eretrian Adriatic.
As to the other votes, I'd much rather have access to the riches of the Dauni without having to bleed a sea of blood for them; especially considering the terrible Oscan foes that would wait for us when we emerge weakened on the other side. Publicly securing the northern frontier would also serve as a factor by which to keep the Tarentines from becoming overbold. I wish to grant Hyria autonomy because, as we have not set an example on the cattle issue due to Mnemnon's failure, it falls to us to find some other way to incentivize nobles to not focus on that to the point of stirring the popular sentiment to revolt. If we give them the go-ahead by putting the example of crushing rebels for this, that could exacerbate the problems and encourage a greater pastoralism among the subject peoples which I am quite loathe to do from all the danger it opens up down the line from the Oscans for reasons I have previously elaborated upon
[x] [Hyria] Grant Hyria autonomy and Artahias allyship [+5,500 freemen providing tributes and levies including heavier infantry, Artahias becomes a loyal Eretrian ally rather than vassal].
[x] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[x] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
The displeasure of Taras is far lighter to bear. We have bested their armies in worse times, when we did not have half of the Italiotes of note as our allies nor the friendship of Athens (which I am sure would help us if their friend and grain exporter appeared threatened by a colony of Sparta that ships grain to their enemy). It truly did make sense to seek Tarentine friendship when we were threatened by the malignant star of an ascendant Syrakousai that seemed likely to feast itself upon our largest ally, the Sikeliote League; however, the new Sicily lies instead under the shadow of our ally, our allies are strengthened and greater in number in italy, and now looms the prospect of a friendly Athens. We are strong enough to face Taras, should it come to it; we must be bold and embrace the opportunity to preserve and expand an Eretrian Adriatic.
As to the other votes, I'd much rather have access to the riches of the Dauni without having to bleed a sea of blood for them; especially considering the terrible Oscan foes that would wait for us when we emerge weakened on the other side. Publicly securing the northern frontier would also serve as a factor by which to keep the Tarentines from becoming overbold. I wish to grant Hyria autonomy because, as we have not set an example on the cattle issue due to Mnemnon's failure, it falls to us to find some other way to incentivize nobles to not focus on that to the point of stirring the popular sentiment to revolt. If we give them the go-ahead by putting the example of crushing rebels for this, that could exacerbate the problems and encourage a greater pastoralism among the subject peoples which I am quite loathe to do from all the danger it opens up down the line from the Oscans for reasons I have previously elaborated upon
[x] [Hyria] Grant Hyria autonomy and Artahias allyship [+5,500 freemen providing tributes and levies including heavier infantry, Artahias becomes a loyal Eretrian ally rather than vassal].
[x] [Dauni] The Path of Peace [Eretria and the Dauni will cease hostility, open trade to one another, and stop plotting against one another].
[x] [Athenai] Accept the Athenian treaty [Athenai will be grateful, Taras will be disturbed, Eretrian grain trade will grow faster in the future].
Deadly Snark
Tryhard As Fuck
Foolishness. They did not rise up in adoration of Eretria, they arose in fear of us and drove out those who would speak from us from their ranks. They come to us begging for mercy now only because they have finally awoken from the madness of Dionysus and realised that they were at our mercy and that their rebellion was misplaced idiocy.
Eretria might be generous, but we are no fools. A city such as this must be broken and brought to heel so that it can never threathen the stability of our realm again.
Artahias is crafty certainly, but so was the old King of the Peuketti and to him and his line do we owe much. Artahias has been so far an honest vassal, who has served ably and organized the cattle sales with great efficiency. I see no point in spiting him over this city of ingrates.
And if Artahias was truly foolish enough to turn his forces against us, then we shall simply call Taras to arms and the Brother city shall ride once more, burning down the last Messapii Cities and hunting them down to the last. And he is well aware of that.
You put too much faith in Artahias and wish to see him the same as the old King of Peuketti. The differences between the two are stark, The old king gained at the expense of Eretrian Enemies, Artahias gains at the expense of Eretrian Vassals. The old King proved his honesty with deed, Artahias schemes with greed.
You see the revolt as against Eretria, and would mistake the aristoi as Eretria. They are not Eretria and we should not be foolish enough to name their excesses as Eretrian. Because it is they, the aristoi, not the common Hyrians, who would exploit it at our expense.
Last edited:
- Location
- Mists of Albion
This is the main issue I draw with your Dauni argument.
Firstly the belief that the Samnites will immediately jump on us straight away after the war is a bit far fetched, as are some of the Dauni's claims of total war, their leader is not well loved and I doubt his vassals will all be willing to burn down their own fields like that and go full total war.
Next is the fact we don't really get access to their riches, or secure our border, every treaty the Iapygians have made with us has been broken publicly. If anything this is a public sign of us backing down. The Dauni King delivered us the heads of our surest allies in his lands and threatens us. We back down immediately.
That seems a lot weaker than us telling him to shove it and sharpening our spears for a future war. Especially when the constant treachery of his and the Iapgyian Kings before him are examined and taken into account.
The Tarentine Peace Faction is also in charge at the moment, and busy dealing with controlling their ocean and increasing their naval power, as long as we don't piss them off before an election too much, we should be able to leverage their defeats against us not even a decade ago to keep them in check, especially as they're literally rebuilding a section of their docks and most of their fleet even as we speak because we kicked the crap out of it in said previous war.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
"Had we caught Pueketti chieftains conspiring with the Dauni, we would have surely put them to death as well. The treachery of doing so at a reconciliation feast bodes poorly, but then we have no cause to trust the Dauni and the Dauni have no cause to trust us. We have only reason to guide our interests, and reason says that Eretria has no interest in a bloody and prolonged war against the Dauni. War with the Dauni offers little gain and much hardship, and does not play to our advantages as a naval power. And to say we have no enemies while we are likely to make an enemy with our choice of the treaty is naive. War with the Dauni is the wrong war, at the wrong time, and for the wrong reasons.
And the barbaroi being human can reason themselves, and have come to the conclusion that war with Eretria means death. That I feel more confident in than any pledge to any god or goddess that their King might make."
And the barbaroi being human can reason themselves, and have come to the conclusion that war with Eretria means death. That I feel more confident in than any pledge to any god or goddess that their King might make."