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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Meme/tldr version of my vote reasoning:
- SCS1: strap on rockets and remove breaks from the train to White, hope we don't crash (or lose SNR. Acceptable loss tho)
- TRF1: free power from all the trauma along the way
- CDE2: upgrade Sincerity-based IFF to true IFF (also loot-detection)

- SCS2: strap on rockets, we go somewhere one way or another (TBD later where)
- TRF2: lose the ability to compromise on core values (TBD later what they are)
- CDE1: maybe going blind into things isn't that smart
 
Huo Yuhao said:
The two main themes that SCS's first insight contradicts, emptiness and stillness, are directly mentioned in prominent areas of SNR's description. The hints here cannot be anymore blatant.
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I've already done some exploration on why I think that the first SCS insight and SNR aren't contradictory, but here is some further exploration of that.

First off, the SCS insight in question doesn't explicitly say that emptiness or stillness are bad, it takes a more grey tone in saying that you can't find peace or contentment in those qualities. I think that is important.

The only other comparison that we currently have is the AM insight verses Bewitching Silver Maiden. The AM insight is that sincerity is the measure of yourself and guests, while the Bewitching Silver Maiden seems to point towards the value of deceit and masking your true intentions. Sincerity and deceit do not work well together, especially since one is masking their true intentions with Bewitching Silver Maiden. If Sincerity is how one values themselves, then deceit cannot be valuable, which goes directly in the face of the Bewitching Silver Maiden art.

Contrast that with the first insight from SCS and SNR. SCS isn't saying that emptiness and stillness are valueless, merely that peace and contentment can't be found in them. SNR further doesn't say that peace and contentment are derived from emptiness and stillness, but that outside conflict and malice can't touch you from it. The conflict will still exist, you won't find peace from using SNR, it just won't be able to do much to you.

And that's where I think the distinction lies between the first insight of SCS and SNR and AM's insight and Bewitching Silver Maiden. Which is why I don't think that SNR will become incompatible with the first insight from SCS.
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.

[X][TRF] Do not slot Thousand Ring Fortress
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength

[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye

Going with this for now. Might change my mind later.
 
Allow me to sell you guys on my preferred TRF insight with some Hot TakesTM​, as I am well known in the FoD community for my serious and engaging contributions to the discussion that 100% are never shitposts no siree


Thousand Ring Fortress Insights
[][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength



First things first, there's the elephant in the room that needs to be addressed:

Rings. Rings are circular. Circles are similar to cycles, which are most excellent. By transitive property we can thus conclude that rings are excellent and everyone must vote for this.

QED that concludes my TED Talk see you guys next time.


...


On a more serious note, this insight has a strong theme of learning from your mistakes, using them as fuel for further growth. It's about not shying away from previous bad experiences, turning their memory from a burden into benefit, and when combined with the lessons from Argent Mirror, allow Ling Qi to critically evaluate her past failures and regrets without falling into the trap of self-delusion. I can't understate how absolutely incredible this is not just for Ling Qi, but for any functioning adult! It's easy to be driven when things come naturally to you. No one is perfect, however - mistakes are inevitable, and for someone that's never experienced them, or doesn't know how to deal with them, they can be crippling. Life isn't smooth sailing - there will be obstacles, there will be trials, there will be times when your all just isn't good enough.

What truly separates the good from the great, however, is how you take those mistakes, those failures, and use them to become better than you were.

Reconnecting this back to the narrative, since Yrs is weaving the chosen insights into the writing of the upcoming arc (hence the early vote), I think this option provides a great opportunity for us to define in-story how Ling Qi's character will handle setbacks and learn from her regrets, with ongoing struggle of balancing the value of life with the weight of duty likely to come to the fore. It'll make for some fantastic reading, and I have no doubt that Yrs will be able to do the idea justice.

This insight resonates with me on a deeply personal level, and I truly, truly believe this is a lesson that Ling Qi needs to learn.
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye

SCS2 seems to be very dangerous to me. What if your family is a barrier to one of your desires? I also will hold out hope that SCS1 is compatible with SNR because I don't think YRS is mean enough to give us a sneak peak into one of the most anticpated arts yet and then take it away based on one decision with incomplete information. SCS1 is just so Ling Qi though.

Either TRF is really good but TRF2 just resonates with one of the themes of FOD. One of the first pieces of advice Ling Qi got was in Elder Zhou's test about thinking careful about what stands to be lost by retreating. Her stand with Meizhen during the thunderdome was a great character moment. Her stand against Sun in the semifinals was really cool. I feel it just works with Ling Qi really well.

I really don't like the two CDE insights. I strongly disagree with CDE1 so I am letting my personal bias influence me there and CDE2 just sounds exhausting. Always watching and never relaxing sounds like a terrible way to live life.
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Do not slot Thousand Ring Fortress
[X][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.
 
[X][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
 
pain and mistakes do not always give lessons. Someone that searches for lessons and meaning in suffering will often find nothing at all. Our bad experiences don't need to be something we embrace and build off of, is cultivation not able to strip away scars and debilitation by it's nature?
TRF 1 is not my favorite. Mirror will keep it from being too toxic, but TRF 2 has better narrative synergy
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye
 
Well, @Alectai's convinced me.

[X][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
 
Thor's Twin said:
Contrast that with the first insight from SCS and SNR. SCS isn't saying that emptiness and stillness are valueless, merely that peace and contentment can't be found in them. SNR further doesn't say that peace and contentment are derived from emptiness and stillness, but that outside conflict and malice can't touch you from it. The conflict will still exist, you won't find peace from using SNR, it just won't be able to do much to you.
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This honestly seems like a stretch to me. Outside conflict and malice not being able to touch you does seem to factor closely into most people's conceptions of peace. Many people do not care about conflict that doesn't concern them. Ling Qi has started to care more about the well being of society, but she continues to concern herself primarily with those close to her.

It's possible that you're right, but I think Occam's razor applies here. The apparent contradictions between the two arts seem to be too significant to not matter.
 
Xepheria said:
Allow me to sell you guys on my preferred TRF insight with some Hot TakesTM​, as I am well known in the FoD community for my serious and engaging contributions to the discussion that 100% are never shitposts no siree


Thousand Ring Fortress Insights
[][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength



First things first, there's the elephant in the room that needs to be addressed:

Rings. Rings are circular. Circles are similar to cycles, which are most excellent. By transitive property we can thus conclude that rings are excellent and everyone must vote for this.

QED that concludes my TED Talk see you guys next time.


...


On a more serious note, this insight has a strong theme of learning from your mistakes, using them as fuel for further growth. It's about not shying away from previous bad experiences, turning their memory from a burden into benefit, and when combined with the lessons from Argent Mirror, allow Ling Qi to critically evaluate her past failures and regrets without falling into the trap of self-delusion. I can't understate how absolutely incredible this is not just for Ling Qi, but for any functioning adult! It's easy to be driven when things come naturally to you. No one is perfect, however - mistakes are inevitable, and for someone that's never experienced them, or doesn't know how to deal with them, they can be crippling. Life isn't smooth sailing - there will be obstacles, there will be trials, there will be times when your all just isn't good enough.

What truly separates the good from the great, however, is how you take those mistakes, those failures, and use them to become better than you were.

Reconnecting this back to the narrative, since Yrs is weaving the chosen insights into the writing of the upcoming arc (hence the early vote), I think this option provides a great opportunity for us to define in-story how Ling Qi's character will handle setbacks and learn from her regrets, with ongoing struggle of balancing the value of life with the weight of duty likely to come to the fore. It'll make for some fantastic reading, and I have no doubt that Yrs will be able to do the idea justice.

This insight resonates with me on a deeply personal level, and I truly, truly believe this is a lesson that Ling Qi needs to learn.
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Meeeeeeeeeeh

Actually standing up for her ideals > "learning from mistakes"
 
JowKeen said:
pain and mistakes do not always give lessons. Someone that searches for lessons and meaning in suffering will often find nothing at all. Our bad experiences don't need to be something we embrace and build off of, is cultivation not able to strip away scars and debilitation by it's nature?
TRF 1 is not my favorite. Mirror will keep it from being too toxic, but TRF 2 has better narrative synergy
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If it's a mistake that you make, or a consequence of your decisions, there are absolutely always lessons to be learned by looking at them in hindsight. If it's out of your control, sure, there may be no meaning to your suffering, but that's not what the insight is about, or what Ling Qi is currently grappling with.
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye
 
Xepheria said:
If it's a mistake that you make, or a consequence of your decisions, there are absolutely always lessons to be learned by looking at them in hindsight. If it's out of your control, sure, there may be no meaning to your suffering, but that's not what the insight is about, or what Ling Qi is currently grappling with.
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The insight is "from past pain arises new strength" not "mistakes and setbacks are an opportunity for growth"
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
[X][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.
 
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[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Be always watchful. Foes and treasures alike may hide in the gaps in one's perceptions.

Vote changed. Still like both options for SCS - nothing wrong with affirming who you already are, I just wish we could get both, :(.
 
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1986ctcel said:
Meeeeeeeeeeh

Actually standing up for her ideals > "learning from mistakes"
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And what if the ideals themselves are mistaken? Do you strap yourself to a sinking ship, or doom yourself to repeat the same mistakes again because of them?

You've also got to remember, Ling Qi is a child. She's fifteen, she's still learning and developing. She doesn't have ideals yet. She has the nascent seeds of one, but nothing concrete, and certainly nothing to define herself by. By contrast, the lesson that is 'learning from your mistakes, and not making them again' is probably the most important lesson any child should learn, because of how the mindset sets them up for the future.

1986ctcel said:
The insight is "from past pain arises new strength" not "mistakes and setbacks are an opportunity for growth"
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You're taking a metaphor far too literally, and simultaneously ignoring the imagery it conjures - I'm not sure it could scream 'growth mindset' harder if it tried. Everyone's had those moments where you look back on decisions you've made in the past and think 'fuck, why, why did I make that choice', mistakes that you regret years into the future, and would change if only you had a time machine. This insight is taking that pain, that emotional pain, and having the resolve to analyse yourself and learn from it, using it to become a better you than the you that made said mistake. It's an incredibly healthy perspective to take, and actually quite liberating, I've found.
 
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[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.

This is by far the one i care most about. A bit of thinking for the rest, though.
 
[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.
 
[X][SCS] Do not slot Sable Crescent Step

[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.

[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye
 
Xepheria said:
Everyone's had those moments where you look back on decisions you've made in the past and think 'fuck, why, why did I make that choice', mistakes that you regret years into the future, and would change if only you had a time machine. This insight is taking that pain, that emotional pain, and having the resolve to analyse yourself and learn from it, using it to become a better you than the you that made said mistake. It's an incredibly healthy perspective to take, and actually quite liberating, I've found
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Sure but that's just repeating the same erroneous AM arguments of how we need that to know ourselves and how we couldn't possibly do that without slotting AM. We should not need to internalise the principle of "suffering builds character" as part of our fundamental life philosophy in order to learn from our mistakes.
 
[X][SCS] Do not slot Sable Crescent Step
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye

Erebeal said:
Sure but that's just repeating the same erroneous AM arguments of how we need that to know ourselves and how we couldn't possibly do that without slotting AM. We should not need to internalise the principle of "suffering builds character" as part of our fundamental life philosophy in order to learn from our mistakes.
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Agreed. To the max.

However, I'm changing my vote to vote for the option for different reasons~ More in line with Xin/Hidden Moon's advice that your own secrets are most precious of all because they make you who you are. I just feel like codifying her history as a step on her Path.

I'm sure this won't cause any problems with developing our clan or Ling Qi sympathizing with other people at all.
 
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