Remove ads

Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)

Reader mode
:cry::cry::cry: I've been so busy with work these last few weeks I missed three updates. Truly tragic... At least I'm back in time to vote on this one I guess.

First though, something from the last few updates that was particularly interesting.
Cetashwayo said:
On Kerkyra the oligarchs have embarked on a terrible rampage through the citizenry, slaughtering any that they see of supporting democracy, after opening their bloody rule by a massacre of much of the reigning government.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Cetashwayo said:
After a bloody fight on the island, it has fallen to Athenai, and joined the Delian League as a full dues paying member, granting Athenai access to the Adriatic and further choking Korinthos. The democrats have been restored in a greatly diminished Kerkyra, now dependent on Athenai.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Kerkyra situation (yea, I've been gone that long) had what was probably the best possible outcome for us with the Oligarchs aligned with Korinthos being defeated, and while it's unfortunate that the city has fallen under the sway of Athens it was also expected. To our benefit though, they've been massively weakened by the whole experience and are now focused on aiding Athens in their war and so aren't positioned to challenge us while we expand in the Adriatic.

Now what's interesting to note - and has been flagged up before - is that during the 34 year time skip Korinthos seized Epidamnos which is just across the Adriatic from Eretria. With them weakened by the war with Athens, having lost Anaktorion and now lost Kerkyra as well it wouldn't surprise me if Demos Drakonia (or maybe someone else) suggested they be liberated to fully remove Korinthos from the Adriatic. This could be a military expedition, or just be done by an application of diplomatic pressure - maybe choking off their trade too - until they're forced to break away from Korinthos even if they don't align with Eretria.


[X] [Colony] Pharos. The excellent natural harbor at Pharos would make it a fine place for a central Adriatic port, even if it has a larger indigenous population. [-40 talents of grain and construction costs, 600 colonists found Pharos, -100 pop from Eretria, 400 colonists found Issa, -50 pop from Eretria].
[X] [Lykai] Settle them in the new Illyrian colonies [+600 settlers in primary Illyrian colony, +200 in second Illyrian colony].
[X] [Kymai] We must save the city! [Begins the Kymai Rescue Quest Chain. -1 foreign mission for each Demos in the next election. Demes will put aside any complicated or military expeditions until the next election cycle].

I have to admit, I'm genuinely torn on what to do with Kymai. On the one hand, I straight up want to save them, of course I do. They're a colony of the original Eretria, it would be fantastic for our reputation and 7,500 people who I'd be quite happy to see become citizens in new colonies would be a huge boost for said colonies.

On the other hand, the opportunity cost is substantial and the risk of failure is very real.

It's very unfortunate we weren't able to intervene earlier, we might have actually been able to 'save' Kymai if we had sent aid before they lost the majority of their men whereas now we're just trying to salvage something from the situation...
 
Being serious for a moment, my top two city names are Kallipolis and Neapolis; both of them flow well, but Kallipolis (The Fair City) is also aspirational in a way I like.
 
Not a huge fan of names with the "-polis" suffix at the end, myself, unless they're something really memorable. The OG Neapolis is memorable as is Megalopolis, but a lot of the "-polis" ones are a little boring.
 
There won't be a vote for Kymai's name, but I'm informally fishing for ideas here. If they just so happen to have a name similar to the one someone in the thread suggests that would be a wonderful coincidence.
 
Erandil said:
Me: I want to exile the guy because he went against tradition, laws and basic rules of behaviour and encouraging others to follow him.

You: You can't exile a guy for being the loser in a political debate and/or military/campaign.

Please explain to me how you go from my point to yours...

And I am willing to bet good money that the political crisis you so desperately want to avoid will happen precisely because we will let viewpoints such as his germinate in our military and political elite.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He didnt go against tradition. Etetrian tradition and indeed the tradition of ancient Greek warfare is a bloody affair. Where mercy is not traditional and the massacre of the weak by the strong is. Its horrible but it is what it is.

Ireanos' beliefs won't germinate in our military and political elites. He isnt the root of the issue and he is an symptom. He was the one shaped by those beliefs that already existed in our military and political elites for decades. They were planted by Herodion who did not let his empathy prevent him from being the city's spear. Planted by Antipater who cared little for showing mercy to the opposing side on the field. They were planted by Eusebios when he sacked Brenton horrifically in the wake of his cousin's death.

Never mind the fact that Ireanos was just publicly humiliated for his actions. He hasn't the influence to germinate anything at this point. Linos rules supreme in our military and it is his ideals that will be cultivated.

Linos is promoting a new path by aspiring to the ideals of Drako and our dealings with our Vassals, Taras and Sicily. Which is great and is also our tradition. Which is the issue because we have too mutually exclusive tradition going around that we need to confront.

As for explaining how I went from your statement to mine. Its become a political issue because 1. Exile as a tool is always inherently political and 2. Linos explicitly made the situation political in order to fuck over an political rival with the Drakonid propaganda machine. The latter point is explicitly stated in the text.

And of course. Exiling someone so that they cant spread their ideas is an explicitly political act. Especially when the person in question has already resigned
 
Last edited:
You know, we could always call it Enetos, with a similar etymology to RL Venice. It's pretty interesting because that area only became a major city after the fall of Rome IRL, but in this timeline, Venice will be founded all the way back in the time of the Ancient Greeks.
 
gutza1 said:
You know, we could always call it Enetos, with a similar etymology to RL Venice. It's pretty interesting because that area only became a major city after the fall of Rome IRL, but in this timeline, Venice will be founded all the way back in the time of the Ancient Greeks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well its because there really wasn't much of a settlement there until Roman refugees rowed out into the Lagoon and founded Venice. If you look at Venetian architecture, it is incredibly Roman in its roots, with the exception of the Eastern Roman Empire being closer.
 
Is there any particular reason people are so eager to focus on Pharos? Issa gives us a better entreport to further colonisation of the Adriatic, and the campaign just ended rather demonstrated the value of having a safe haven directly opposite Eretria.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
Is there any particular reason people are so eager to focus on Pharos? Issa gives us a better entreport to further colonisation of the Adriatic, and the campaign just ended rather demonstrated the value of having a safe haven directly opposite Eretria.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think Pharos is just better placed for long term growth, while Issas is limited by the aerable land on the island. Issas is also in less danger from local Liburni.
 
Ironanvil1 said:
Is there any particular reason people are so eager to focus on Pharos? Issa gives us a better entreport to further colonisation of the Adriatic, and the campaign just ended rather demonstrated the value of having a safe haven directly opposite Eretria.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Pharos has better potential to grow as a city.
 
HastyGaming said:
Now what's interesting to note - and has been flagged up before - is that during the 34 year time skip Korinthos seized Epidamnos which is just across the Adriatic from Eretria. With them weakened by the war with Athens, having lost Anaktorion and now lost Kerkyra as well it wouldn't surprise me if Demos Drakonia (or maybe someone else) suggested they be liberated to fully remove Korinthos from the Adriatic. This could be a military expedition, or just be done by an application of diplomatic pressure - maybe choking off their trade too - until they're forced to break away from Korinthos even if they don't align with Eretria.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not sure yet, if I could get behind threatening Epidamnos with a military expedition. However, expanding our sphere of influence, so as to cover the, more or less unalligned, minor Adriatic Greek cities, is definitely a medium/long term goal for me. @Cetashwayo, how are the "representatives" of Epidamnos, we have been hosting for the last 5 year, doing? Is any of the Demoi planning to do something in that regard? Or, has the strong opposition to the attempted Kerkyra intervention made the factions wary?
 
Spacegnom said:
Not sure yet, if I could get behind threatening Epidamnos with a military expedition. However, expanding our sphere of influence, so as to cover the, more or less unalligned, minor Adriatic Greek cities, is definitely a medium/long term goal for me. @Cetashwayo, how are the "representatives" of Epidamnos, we have been hosting for the last 5 year, doing? Is any of the Demoi planning to do something in that regard? Or, has the strong opposition to the attempted Kerkyra intervention made the factions wary?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

They're waiting for an opportunity. Yeah, Korinthos is beaten, but they're not really out for the count yet. You're going to understand, even with its fleet beaten by the Athenians, why Korinthos is scary in just a bit, when I post the numbers of adult freemen that all the major powers can count on.
 
I would rather go for Epidamnos and the Dauni in the next few years than the Kymai adventure to be honest.

Just for comparisons sake @Cetashwayo, how many people would we gain in the Dauni cities that have expressed an interest in joining our hegemony, and how many in Epidamnos?
 
Ironanvil1 said:
I would rather go for Epidamnos and the Dauni in the next few years than the Kymai adventure to be honest.

Just for comparisons sake @Cetashwayo, how many people would we gain in the Dauni cities that have expressed an interest in joining our hegemony, and how many in Epidamnos?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Herdonia and Salapia have like 5,000 people between the two of them and Epidamnos has a population of 14,000.
 
Cetashwayo said:
. The admiral reveled in cruelty that could be positively unhellenic, with him even suggesting at one point that a particularly rambunctious local should be nailed to the cross, a distinctly Carthaginian punishment. For all the brutality of their sackings, the Greeks were known not to dismember or defile their enemies, and so this caused discomfort among some. Others gleefully partook, however, and news of the Eretrian atrocities on the outlying islands began to filter back to Iadar along with refugees.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Deadly Snark said:
He didnt go against tradition. Etetrian tradition and indeed the tradition of ancient Greek warfare is a bloody affair. Where mercy is not traditional and the massacre of the weak by the strong is. Its horrible but it is what it is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

...
 
Leontios had our psiloi cut off the heads of Peuketti skirmishers and toss them back at the enemy during the battle of Carantha. Defiling barbaroi is not categorically beyond the pale even if it is disapproved of. As it is I see no need to exacerbate a social divide to exile a man who has removed himself from political life. Especially as we may need him later if facing down another Hellene fleet in open waters.
 
Cavalier said:
Leontios had our psiloi cut off the heads of Peuketti skirmishers and toss them back at the enemy during the battle of Carantha. Defiling barbaroi is not categorically beyond the pale even if it is disapproved of. As it is I see no need to exacerbate a social divide to exile a man who has removed himself from political life. Especially as we may need him later if facing down another Hellene fleet in open waters.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

SKANTARIOS: I don't understand where the question of exile even arises. What he did was distasteful, but they were only barbaroi, and when asked to desist, he did. If he had repeatedly and flagrantly violated the laws of the city or lent aid to its enemies, then the question of exile arises, but beyond that, it is in bad taste to even evoke it.
 
Last edited:
...the fact that you clearly were not speaking in character with that is more than a little disgusting.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top