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Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)

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[X] [Insurance] Set large limitations on state insurance and have merchants pay a fee for insurance. [-2 public upkeep per turn].
[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.


Should the city accept a defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy, gaining an ally but putting it into potential conflict with Taras?

Hmm...
Cetashwayo said:
Ironanvil1 said:
Would King Artahias taking the same sort of deal Harpos did, of swearing to Eretria in return for tribal hegemony, be viable, with suitable inducements? A decent sized chunk of the Messapii seem interested in coming under our banner, and we've got a reputation for defending what's ours.
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2. If Eretria signs the defensive alliance that could be a more long-term arrangement that could emerge, but for the moment it's a step too far.
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Hmmmm......
Academia Nut said:
And the Big Man smiled. Why ask for any one thing, when you could ask for friendship and have all the things?
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[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].

[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].

[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].

[X] [Alliance] Better to conclude secret treaties with some cities without raising the specter of war with Taras.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
[X] [Insurance] Set large limitations on state insurance and have merchants pay a fee for insurance. [-2 public upkeep per turn].
[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] We have already conceded much to the Metics. The league can afford to wait a few years [Special League policies in 349 OL election platforms].
[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[X] [Tribute] Talents. Better to receive coin and kind from the Peuketii in order to help fund the city's ventures [Peuketii tribute increases to 13.1 talents per turn].
[X] [Collection] Dispatch inspectors to them. Better for our agents to be among them in order to catch any sign of suspicion or plotting than to hope the barbaroi will always keep us in good stead [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] We have already conceded much to the Metics. The league can afford to wait a few years [Special League policies in 349 OL election platforms].
[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
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''Make no mistake, war with Taras will come should they manage to defeat the Messapii. Like the Syrakousai in Sicily they believe the land of Italia belong to them by right, the tought of others being prosperous free and strong in this land offend them. I will rather fight leading the Messappi to battle at our side then with them serving Taras. Palas Athene will surely support Eretria as she always done in the past!''

[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.

''Yet, it would be hubris to think lightly of the possibility of war with a polis as powerfull as Taras. To better be able to face war, if it come, we need to ensure that all of our allies are able, ready and willing to help the defense of Eretria. Outstanding issues must not be allowed to stand in the way.''

[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Dispatch inspectors to them. Better for our agents to be among them in order to catch any sign of suspicion or plotting than to hope the barbaroi will always keep us in good stead [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].

''As to the matter of insurance, something, assuredly, be done but I share the fears of those who believe that such an open commitment might prove unwise for the city. As such, wisedom seem to be with the solution proposed by the Grand Matis.''

[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].

So spoke the Hoplite Nikephoros, son of Lysandros.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[X] [Tribute] Talents. Better to receive coin and kind from the Peuketii in order to help fund the city's ventures [Peuketii tribute increases to 13.1 talents per turn].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] We have already conceded much to the Metics. The league can afford to wait a few years [Special League policies in 349 OL election platforms].
[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
NuclearConsensus said:
As I recall, didn't this guy pass through the Pillars again in one of the past quests?
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Actually
Cetashwayo said:
NavySeel said:
So I've been rereading the previous 2 threads and I just came across the fact that Hanno went on a voyage beyond the pillars of Heracles.
That's after the voyage he made in our history right?
Did anything come from that in the end or did he just vanish?
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Hehehe.
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Mm-yes, and had been missing until now. :cool:

Incidentally,

Arcus said:
Ironanvil1 said:
Cetashwayo said:
Ironanvil1 said:
By the way, with Hamilcar dead, does that mean Hanno the Navigator is now King of Carthage? We should send Eusebios over to talk shop!:p
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Could be :drevil:
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We could get a gorilla to go with our ostrich, start a proper zoo.
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For the last time, it's a thunderbird! :mad:
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From four years ago
Cetashwayo said:
An Eretrian merchant reported seeing an aggressive, hairy and stupid man in Panormos in a cage with hands for feet unlike any seen before.
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That is one long-a** brick joke :V
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
[X] [Insurance] Set large limitations on state insurance and have merchants pay a fee for insurance. [-2 public upkeep per turn].
[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[x] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us.We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[x] [Alliance] Better to conclude secret treaties with some cities without raising the specter of war with Taras.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
So I'm curious given our universal male franchise (metics notwithstanding) the state of our Psiloi compared to other Greek city states since as far as I understand it's a very broad catch all term covering anything from archers to literal rock throwers.

Given the physicality of all our citizens, and how we have a substantial amount of poor citizens who nonetheless would be invested and dedicated to the city by virtue of having a voting stake in it as well as a lot of exposure to barbarian skirmishers we'd be relatively high on the quality curve.

In light of that how feasible would it be to try and eventually push a permanent special unit of peltasts or toxotai like the Exoria and the Ekdromoi? It seems like we could afford the the relatively low wages for it and it would provide an avenue for the urban poor to earn Arete competing to fill it and provide more permanent jobs guaranteed by the city (much like our proffesional Rowers). As a quick comparison it costs us roughly 1 talent per 45 rowers in terms of wages during times of peace. Maintaining a force of 500 peltasts or more professional skirmishers at a similar cost doesn't seem like a ruinous expense in the future. The thought of maintaining a permanent unit from each wealth strata of our city feels particularly Eretrian.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[x] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us.We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[x] [Alliance] Better to conclude secret treaties with some cities without raising the specter of war with Taras.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.
 
It seems we are going to openly oppose Taras by threatening war. A regretable decision if you ask me, especially since our initial choices (Adriatic trade network & Syracuse as Rival) seemed to be directed away from Taras. With this we will add another enemy to our list. I can definitely see how confronting Taras now rather than later has its benefits, but if that was the threads intention then I somewhat question the choice of rival.
I would like to point out that we are not guaranteed to decisively beat Taras in such a war. IMO the most likely result is Taras getting bloodied and then deciding to wait for us to be distracted to the north or on Sicily before pouncing on the Messapii again. Thus we will have to keep our army close to home for the forseeable future, which will limit our ability to act against the Dauni and Syracuse immensely.

The alternative here is that we grab from the Messapii what is most important to us (Brention) and try to establish a working relationship with Taras. They will be hemmed in, busy pacifying the Messapii, while we continue to expand northwards. Of course if we fail to come to an accord with Taras then in ~10-20 years we will have a stronger foe at our back. On the flipside if we manage to keep Taras at least neutral, then we might find common cause when the tribes from the hilly interior decide to prey on the coastal plains.

@Cetashwayo Roughly how large are the forces Taras and the Messapii can expect to field? Also how would Metapontion and Thurii behave during a war between us and Taras caused by this alliance?
 
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A permament accord with Taras is likely impossible, our respective spheres of influence are simply too close to avoid collision. That does not mean we should instantly rush into conflict with them however. There are plenty of good reasons for wanting to delay, sorring out our internal issues, building up our military, waiting to see how Hellas develops etc etc etc. Likewise there are also good reasons for forcing a conflict now, we likely hold a numeric advantage and if we drag on for too long Athens and Sparta are likely to use us as proxies for their wars. This is one of the most important choices we've faced so far and will likely decide how the next few turns work out.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].

I was going to vote for limited state insurance, but i was swayed by arguments and now I want to see what will raise from this protobanking institution.

[X] [Tribute] Levies. More Peuketii allies in the cavalry and light infantry will serve to augment's the city's armies [+2.5% levy from the Peuketii, +654 Levies].

Looks like the war is looming. Men are better in this situation.

[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].

Mutual trust building. We do not need such strict control over our tributaries. We're not desperate financially.

[X] [League] We have already conceded much to the Metics. The league can afford to wait a few years [Special League policies in 349 OL election platforms].

I'm afraid calling the Synedrion next year might backfire. We may be on the eve of war with Taras then and League Members might use it to strongarm a better deal with us.

[X] [Alliance] Accept a full defensive alliance with the Messapii Confederacy.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.

Let the whole Italia know, that we wish to be friends with Messapii. And that we're not secret plotters nor backstabbers.
 
[X] [Insurance] Allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support [-20 talent one-time fee to Shrine of Ploutos].
[X] [Tribute] Talents. Better to receive coin and kind from the Peuketii in order to help fund the city's ventures [Peuketii tribute increases to 13.1 talents per turn].
[X] [Collection] Have them come to us. We can maintain a bond of trust with the tributaries without impinging in their private affairs and expand the festival of tribute to build fraternal feeling. [-2 public subsidy upkeep per year].
[X] [League] Let us listen to the concerns of our Hellene allies [League Synedrion will be called next year].
[X] [Alliance] Better to conclude secret treaties with some cities without raising the specter of war with Taras.
[X] [King] Better to keep the Confederacy weak and potentially reliant on Eretrian direction.

My fellow citizens! I, Hermesdora Eretriazenis the psiloi, do vote for the following proposals!

I vote to allow the Shrine of Ploutos to handle merchant insurance with state support. This is so the city treasury and merchant insurances shall never have cause to interact with each other, for I fear that our city could be left without money if that event were to happen.

I vote to receive coin and kind from the Peuketii instead of levies, for I don't want their military power increasing if they are to expand their levies at our orders. Instead, just use that coin and goods in kind to make more javelins to issue to us psiloi!

On the matter of tribute collection I vote to have them come to us! That way rich non-Hellenes will buy food and other stuff from the stores in the city!

On the matter of the League, I vote to have the Synedrion be called next year! It is shameful that we, the leader of the Epulian League, are not fulfilling our duties as the leader by regularly having meetings with the other members! Shameful! Very shameful!

On the matter of the alliance, let's just conclude secret treaties! That way we can ambush Taras' army while it is marching onwards here and there in the lands of the Mesapii! That is the simplest way to ahieve a win over Taras!

On the matter of the King, I vote to keep it weak! Never again must we let another Daxtus stab us in the back! Never!

I have cast my vote and shall now go to the athletic field to practice javelin throwing! Oh and before I forget, eat at Bryzos' thermopolia! The oldest existing thermopolia in the Port District! We have the best squid and fish soups in Eretria!


@Cetashwayo, what is our current relationship with Kymai? Isn't Eretria Kymai's mother city? Are we still having regular contact with them?
 
Spacegnom said:
@Cetashwayo Roughly how large are the forces Taras and the Messapii can expect to field? Also how would Metapontion and Thurii behave during a war between us and Taras caused by this alliance?
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Metapontion would remain neutral. Thurii would come to your side. Taras can field about 9,000 overall with the aid of its Hellene allies, the Messapii can field about 3,000. Do not expect anything close to those numbers on the field; most of a polis' manpower will not be put on the field at once, and that includes Eretria. Taras has more hoplites but Eretria has more cavalry and light infantry.

kilopi505 said:
@Cetashwayo, what is our current relationship with Kymai? Isn't Eretria Kymai's mother city? Are we still having regular contact with them?
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Yes, you have regular trading relations with them and relations are fine, but Kymai is too far from Eretria's main sphere of focus to matter
 
Cetashwayo said:
Metapontion would remain neutral. Thurii would come to your side. Taras can field about 9,000 overall with the aid of its Hellene allies, the Messapii can field about 3,000. Do not expect anything close to those numbers on the field; most of a polis' manpower will not be put on the field at once, and that includes Eretria. Taras has more hoplites but Eretria has more cavalry and light infantry.
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Do we expect Metapontion to let Thurii march through its territory? Or would they be limited to strike against Herakleia Lukania?
 
Spacegnom said:
Do we expect Metapontion to let Thurii march through its territory? Or would they be limited to strike against Herakleia Lukania?
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Metapontion would not want Thurii to push it into a war, so for Thurii to reinforce you in the east it would require them going through Lucanian territory or negotiating something with Metapontion which is not your current xenoparakletor's strong suit.
 
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