Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Not to mention....in the very first chapter of the story ling qi states " well it was either conscription into the sect or have my dantain destroyed"

Gee. I wonder what kind of setting has forced conscription on pain of crippling.


But in all seriousness, FoD is a DEATHWORLD , filled with eldtritch abominations and things with too many eyes. People need to band together to survive. It is also a very fleshed out world with a very diverse history.

Not to mention the type of cultivating ling qi does she needs Spirit stones for. Red-yellow stones are abundant , green becomes more pricey (lq isnt rich ) and past that it becomes exceedingly hard to cultivate without backers, influence, family and recources . In this case Cai

[x] The pale grey lights of the Hidden Moon
[X] The sparkling many colored lights of the Dreaming Moon

Mr.rodent said:

Not to mention....in the very first chapter of the story ling qi states " well it was either conscription into the sect or have my dantain destroyed"

Gee. I wonder what kind of setting has forced conscription on pain of crippling.


But in all seriousness, FoD is a DEATHWORLD , filled with eldtritch abominations and things with too many eyes. People need to band together to survive. It is also a very fleshed out world with a very diverse history.

Not to mention the type of cultivating ling qi does she needs Spirit stones for. Red-yellow stones are abundant , green becomes more pricey (lq isnt rich ) and past that it becomes exceedingly hard to cultivate without backers, influence, family and recources . In this case Cai

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I actually thought of that scene while I was writing my previous post and realized it did contradict my argument. However, in my view it's one thing for a mortal to be forced into conscription and entirely something else for a relatively powerful cultivator to still be an insignificant cog in the machine.

Anima said:

Well ok, you and a couple of the other posters above have convinced me that I didn't have enough knowledge of the worldbuilding, in terms that there is basically no chance for her to escape serving one person or another. I dislike this type of setting though. I'm not saying the protagonist needs to be capable of anything they put their mind to, but the world itself forcing their path under the illusion of still having choices is just something that doesn't make for the type of story I like to read. If that's how it will always be, this should've probably been made clearer earlier in the story, because I feel like the initial promise of the story (in the beginning of FoD) is very different than what's actually going to be the direction in the long term.

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It's really easy to miss the most obvious example that we saw of this, so I don't blame you for forgetting or skipping over it. In the very first update, Ling Qi relates how she was approached by a spooky person in a mask who basically said "You're a potential cultivator; study at a Great Sect and serve an 8 year period in the military or I will permanently cripple your ability to ever cultivate. Your choice."

Our time hanging out with noble kids whose obligations are to their own families kind of distracted from that initial introduction to the setting.

Edit: Oh no, I got ninja'd. Twice

Anima said:

I actually thought of that scene while I was writing my previous post and realized it did contradict my argument. However, in my view it's one thing for a mortal to be forced into conscription and entirely something else for a relatively powerful cultivator to still be an insignificant cog in the machine.

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It's more that they're very significant cogs in the machine, and other significant cogs don't want them causing problems, so everyone cooperatively binds each other in obligations as much as feasible.

And let me just say that while I wasn't here for the Cai vote, I would've voted for Cai anyways (though the Sect option would've been a real close second, with Xin and Elder Jiao being there).

Material superiority and political power aside, something about a street rat helping out an administrator who has a big ideal on justice kinda appeals to me. Someone who has experienced hardship firsthand decides to go to the path of helping someone fixing the system despite her not believing in the kind of justice CRX wants, which is part of what attracted me to the latter's character and the potential interactions that comes with it, especially with Ling Qi's desire to be the better person.

So, first I would like to thank you for your feedback @Anima, and I hope you'll stick around and keep reading, but in the interest of honesty, I feel that I should say this.

For all the kung fu magic nonsense going on, a fairly solid chunk of the stories theme is about Ling Qi growing up, and growing up generally means learning to accept responsibilities. Which is where I break pretty strongly with the themes of most xianxia I think. Most of them are basically all about becoming the unquestioned emperor of the universe, in being able to do whatever you like with no concern for anyone else or the consequences of your actions.

I don't like that. There weren't any paths available to Ling Qi that didn't involve having to defer to someones authority, at least in the forseeable future. There were choices that would have put the authority far away, or kicked the can down the road by focusing on academics, but since Ling Qi lives in a functioning human society, she can't just do as she likes. No one fully gets to do as they like, because otherwise there would be no empire, or kingdoms or cities or any social groupings more advanced than tiny superhuman family groups, and even those require a degree of internal cohesion.

That said, you're not wrong, the Cai choice did put her very close to the authorities in her life, so if that's not your speed feel free to vote as you like.

Basically, the way the Empire works is that you can become as ubermensch as you want1​...

... As long as you work with the system

1​and are sufficiently talented and lucky and... Look, stop making excuses and pull yourself up by your bootstraps!

Hey, @Anima ? Just as a point of quest-story etiquette: if you catch up on a story the quick way, and there was a big momentous decision, and you disagree with the path taken, it's still generally a bad idea to bring that up in the ongoing thread. Comment on it in passing as part of a "well I read through the story recently and my thoughts are" post, sure, that's fine, but if you're walking into an ongoing conversation with no idea where it's been, then you shouldn't immediately go stomping for possible landmines. If you feel strongly about it, then it's likely other people did too, and you have no idea how bad that conversation may have gotten before or after that decision was locked in.

I won't call it derailing, because it's on topic, but it does tend to disrupt conversations that were ongoing at the time of the post in question, and generally not in pleasant or productive ways. Please respect that decisions were made, and you unfortunately were not present for them, and you'll have to work within that context to navigate towards your desired goals rather than getting to burn it all down and start over. (This is how people have to negotiate the rest of their lives anyway, so it should be a familiar skill.)

Anima said:

Well ok, you and a couple of the other posters above have convinced me that I didn't have enough knowledge of the worldbuilding, in terms that there is basically no chance for her to escape serving one person or another. I dislike this type of setting though. I'm not saying the protagonist needs to be capable of anything they put their mind to, but the world itself forcing their path under the illusion of still having choices is just something that doesn't make for the type of story I like to read. If that's how it will always be, this should've probably been made clearer earlier in the story, because I feel like the initial promise of the story (in the beginning of FoD) is very different than what's actually going to be the direction in the long term.

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A big factor here is that the Empire actually has realistic politics for a ten thousand year old civilization.
-Cultivators in the system are resources
-Cultivators outside the system are threats
-A civilization this age does not allow threats to proliferate or it would never have reached this age to begin with.
-Old institutions have old failsafes. The oldest clans can each functionally destroy the Empire with their Sublime Ancestors awakening, but do not because it'd destroy themselves first.

This is the fundamental basis of Imperial politics and informs everything else.
Its why Cultivators who reach Green in their teens are automatically given a writ of nobility. Anyone with that much Talent is able to bootstrap themselves into significant power given a little luck. They either settle down as landowners under someone more powerful, gaining great freedoms and powers but also great responsibilities or formally join an Imperial institution like the ministries or Sects, where they have limited freedom but have a fairly clear cut and limited responsibility.

Its why even commoners with high potential or spirit ancestry are given the choice to be spiritually maimed or receive formal cultivation training in the Imperial style.

There isn't really a point where you CAN escape that, short of spirit ascension. The Grave of the Sun is one example of how one extremely powerful guy trying to seize the throne by force merely suicide pacted with the province he tried it in.

White, the peak of cultivation, is rare, but theres a dozen of them out there, all of who are invested in things continuing to work while they work their way towards ascension.

This was made clear fairly early on in the story, though not so explicitly but think: Would Ling Qi have recieved sponsored tuition on how to become a Power if the sponsor didn't get something out of it?

@yrsillar is Moon Mantle both physical and spiritual defense? Or just one of them?

Also, is it just personal defense or group defense like TRF? Because a lot of people have been labelling it as a TRF replacement...

yrsillar said:

So, first I would like to thank you for your feedback @Anima, and I hope you'll stick around and keep reading, but in the interest of honesty, I feel that I should say this.

For all the kung fu magic nonsense going on, a fairly solid chunk of the stories theme is about Ling Qi growing up, and growing up generally means learning to accept responsibilities. Which is where I break pretty strongly with the themes of most xianxia I think. Most of them are basically all about becoming the unquestioned emperor of the universe, in being able to do whatever you like with no concern for anyone else or the consequences of your actions.

I don't like that. There weren't any paths available to Ling Qi that didn't involve having to defer to someones authority, at least in the forseeable future. There were choices that would have put the authority far away, or kicked the can down the road by focusing on academics, but since Ling Qi lives in a functioning human society, she can't just do as she likes. No one fully gets to do as they like, because otherwise there would be no empire, or kingdoms or cities or any social groupings more advanced than tiny superhuman family groups, and even those require a degree of internal cohesion.

That said, you're not wrong, the Cai choice did put her very close to the authorities in her life, so if that's not your speed feel free to vote as you like.

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I appreciate the reply and I will keep reading (I really shouldn't have worded my initial post to sound like I was throwing an ultimatum for dropping the story, I apologize for that ). I actually very much do like that theme and it's part of the reason I read this story while not being a huge xianxia fan in general, but my interpretation is probably a little different in the fact that while taking responsibility and growing up is something I like as a theme, it does not need to equate subservience. It's more so that for me it's preferable for the story to play out on a small stage, which is where the choice to go with Cai diverted that into a much larger stage for the current and future story.

I haven't checked the tally.

I haven't read the discussion.

All of this is irrelevant.

I've wanted a Mantle Art for years.

Blah,Blah,not the same don't care.

[X] The pale grey lights of the Hidden Moon

[X] The ethereal green lights of the Grinning Moon.

Anima said:

I appreciate the reply and I will keep reading (I really shouldn't have worded my initial post to sound like I was throwing an ultimatum for dropping the story, I apologize for that ). I actually very much do like that theme and it's part of the reason I read this story while not being a huge xianxia fan in general, but my interpretation is probably a little different in the fact that while taking responsibility and growing up is something I like as a theme, it does not need to equate subservience. It's more so that for me it's preferable for the story to play out on a small stage, which is where the choice to go with Cai diverted that into a much larger stage for the current and future story.

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Cool, thanks I didn't want to come across as condescending. I don't disagree I originally intended the story to be smaller scale, so I can see your point. I suppose we just have different thoughts on how social responsibility manifests. Still I'm glad you'll stick around to see where we go with this

Anderein said:

Hey, @Anima ? Just as a point of quest-story etiquette: if you catch up on a story the quick way, and there was a big momentous decision, and you disagree with the path taken, it's still generally a bad idea to bring that up in the ongoing thread. Comment on it in passing as part of a "well I read through the story recently and my thoughts are" post, sure, that's fine, but if you're walking into an ongoing conversation with no idea where it's been, then you shouldn't immediately go stomping for possible landmines. If you feel strongly about it, then it's likely other people did too, and you have no idea how bad that conversation may have gotten before or after that decision was locked in.

I won't call it derailing, because it's on topic, but it does tend to disrupt conversations that were ongoing at the time of the post in question, and generally not in pleasant or productive ways. Please respect that decisions were made, and you unfortunately were not present for them, and you'll have to work within that context to navigate towards your desired goals rather than getting to burn it all down and start over. (This is how people have to negotiate the rest of their lives anyway, so it should be a familiar skill.)

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I apologize, as I actually do feel like it was derailing, and I even mentioned in my initial post that I knew the timing of my post was wrong. I have actually read a lot of the previous posts around the time these decisions were made too and I'm aware that those choices weren't taken lightly. My intention was never to continue participating in the quest though, which is why I allowed myself to post this. As I said, I'm here to read, not to make the choice where the story goes. I just kinda got into the discussion afterwards.

I'm done now though, as I got a better understanding of what I wasn't aware of and I don't think there's a point to continue. Hopefully the thread can get back on topic.

Erebeal said:

@yrsillar is Moon Mantle both physical and spiritual defense? Or just one of them?

Also, is it just personal defense or group defense like TRF? Because a lot of people have been labelling it as a TRF replacement...

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It is both defense types, its a personal art though.

OneArmedYeti said:

I've wanted a Mantle Art for years.

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If you read it properly, all choices are Mantle Arts though for different focus.

I can't decide between the two...

[X] The ethereal green lights of the Grinning Moon.
{Laughing Flight of the Wind Thief; Mobility and Stealth Art}

[X] The pale grey lights of the Hidden Moon
{Imperturbable Starlight Mantle; Defensive Social and Defensive Combat art}

yrsillar said:

So, first I would like to thank you for your feedback @Anima, and I hope you'll stick around and keep reading, but in the interest of honesty, I feel that I should say this.

For all the kung fu magic nonsense going on, a fairly solid chunk of the stories theme is about Ling Qi growing up, and growing up generally means learning to accept responsibilities. Which is where I break pretty strongly with the themes of most xianxia I think. Most of them are basically all about becoming the unquestioned emperor of the universe, in being able to do whatever you like with no concern for anyone else or the consequences of your actions.

I don't like that. There weren't any paths available to Ling Qi that didn't involve having to defer to someones authority, at least in the forseeable future. There were choices that would have put the authority far away, or kicked the can down the road by focusing on academics, but since Ling Qi lives in a functioning human society, she can't just do as she likes. No one fully gets to do as they like, because otherwise there would be no empire, or kingdoms or cities or any social groupings more advanced than tiny superhuman family groups, and even those require a degree of internal cohesion.

That said, you're not wrong, the Cai choice did put her very close to the authorities in her life, so if that's not your speed feel free to vote as you like.

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[X] Abandon society, live in the wilderness with only your spirits for company.

As cool as an offensive social art would be, I think a good way of thinking of this is as a guaranteed high quality art for Green 3+. Which seems almost tautological, but it means we should focus more on what we think Ling Qi's focus is rather than filling a hole/shoring a weakness, so I believe Grinning or Hidden to be the choices here, for Mobility/Stealth or Social/Combat defense.

Mechanically I'm not sure which of the two I want, so I'm just going to go for Grinning as that seems more fun.
[X] The ethereal green lights of the Grinning Moon.

I voted for the Cai choice for a couple of reasons, but amongst them was a desire to see the larger stage of the world without Ling Qi skipping steps so that she would only interact with it once she is powerful enough to ignore quite a lot of the people beneath her. In that aspect I like yrsillar dripping more and more Emerald Seas politics that Ling Qi can't just ignore until they either go away or she becomes powerful enough so that they are rendered meaningless.

[x] The pale grey lights of the Hidden Moon
[X] The sparkling many colored lights of the Dreaming Moon

I am just pointing out that S O C I A L C O M B A T art isn't just for Renxiang gatherings, it's also useful for spirit wrangling which is all kinds of useful.

[X] The ethereal green lights of the Grinning Moon.
[X] The pale grey lights of the Hidden Moon

[X] The pale grey lights of the Hidden Moon

I do like the sound of the other two arts but I love the thought of having this in our domain.