Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
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- Tags
- ancient greece alternate history empire builder civ quest democracy gods save us granary management hubris it's an eretrian thing. let lose the weasels of war lithocracy lithocracy is my fetish maximum hellene my big fat greek divine wedding this granary aint gonna fill itself cetash unwinnable
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
No, because in the previous quests it was a pretty gamey system based on Total War. In general, most construction in a city is going to be private besides the big public works, and generally these public works are going to be expensive, meaning you won't have money to build other stuff.
The Epirotes are Greeks, along with the tribal Athamenes, they're just, well, tribal. Epirus has a few big cities but doesn't urbanize and centralize until the 4th century BCE.
- Location
- United Kingdom
Judging from Sivantic's earlier post I think they have some concerns about renovating/building the Temple before the sewers are done. (below)
- Location
- Hell
@McLuvin said that there would not be much built near the new Hill of the Marriage that Demos Antipatria promises to build, so there would be not much trouble to tear up the ground to build the sewer system afterwards.
I on the other hand am of the mind that the five year build time is not there for no reason and that the sewer system will be harder to construct as more time passes.
Which interpretation is correct?
- Location
- USA
Ah so can we assume then that private citizens may expand our olive yards based on the wealth flowing into the city or would that fall under a great work of expanding trade goods?
We face interesting choices here, fellow citizens.
The woeful augur of Zeus definitely seems a clear message to me, a message that for too long our city has stood and grown wealthy whilst our Temple lies ramshackle and impoverished. This disgraceful state of affairs cannot be allowed to continue, or we may all suffer the justified anger of the Olympians. Therefore, the Antipatrid domestic slate, which promises to redress this with the construction a new great temple on the Hill of the Marriage, is the best. It is unfortunate that this will mean we cannot build a new harbour during the next boule, as the opportunities this offers are very promising, but sadly that is the way of things.
The idea of setting up trading relations so that the barbaroi might drive their many head of cattle also sounds promising. If we are both trading, then war begins to look less gainful. I for one like the taste of good beef, whatever grass the cow has grazed upon. Despite their brutish manners, if these butter-eaters have good cattle to offer the city, then let them come.
As far as our foreign policy goes, I find myself much more mixed. Whilst it's definitely true that we should be mindful of the men we send to represent us to others, I'm not sure that the Golden Ram will be a liability in leading a trade mission. Athenagoras Symmachos has managed to become the leader of a Demos in his own right, which suggests to me he is a persuasive and forceful personality, capable of making his case to others. Perhaps he can be blunt, but that is not necessarily a bad quality when haggling a trade deal. If we were sending a peace envoy to a wrothful King, perhaps that would be another thing.
In the forefront of my mind though are the pirates who prey upon our merchant ships. This outrage cannot, must not, and will not be tolerated. It is an affront to every man of the city that they should taunt us with such brazen assaults. That he is an Eretrian citizen should be enough for one of our merchant captains to go freely and unmolested, whilst he sails outside our very doorstep!
So as it stands, I would cast my stones for:
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
The woeful augur of Zeus definitely seems a clear message to me, a message that for too long our city has stood and grown wealthy whilst our Temple lies ramshackle and impoverished. This disgraceful state of affairs cannot be allowed to continue, or we may all suffer the justified anger of the Olympians. Therefore, the Antipatrid domestic slate, which promises to redress this with the construction a new great temple on the Hill of the Marriage, is the best. It is unfortunate that this will mean we cannot build a new harbour during the next boule, as the opportunities this offers are very promising, but sadly that is the way of things.
The idea of setting up trading relations so that the barbaroi might drive their many head of cattle also sounds promising. If we are both trading, then war begins to look less gainful. I for one like the taste of good beef, whatever grass the cow has grazed upon. Despite their brutish manners, if these butter-eaters have good cattle to offer the city, then let them come.
As far as our foreign policy goes, I find myself much more mixed. Whilst it's definitely true that we should be mindful of the men we send to represent us to others, I'm not sure that the Golden Ram will be a liability in leading a trade mission. Athenagoras Symmachos has managed to become the leader of a Demos in his own right, which suggests to me he is a persuasive and forceful personality, capable of making his case to others. Perhaps he can be blunt, but that is not necessarily a bad quality when haggling a trade deal. If we were sending a peace envoy to a wrothful King, perhaps that would be another thing.
In the forefront of my mind though are the pirates who prey upon our merchant ships. This outrage cannot, must not, and will not be tolerated. It is an affront to every man of the city that they should taunt us with such brazen assaults. That he is an Eretrian citizen should be enough for one of our merchant captains to go freely and unmolested, whilst he sails outside our very doorstep!
So as it stands, I would cast my stones for:
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
They will expand the olive groves based on demand and trade, which would be represented by eventually gaining additional olive trade routes. It's possible to stack trade routes when you get big enough; you might one day have 3 trade routes of grain to Athenai or what-have-you.
Start-up costs might change over time but this is true of all the options, dependent on how much more money the city has later (like, let's say the city has enough income to say they want an extra gold statue of Athena and Apollo, that might be another 40 talents to the Temple renovation). There's no "correct" order to construct the buildings in or way to predict that. It'll come up eventually.
- Location
- Hell
@Cetashwayo I noticed that a lot of the options provide new trade routes, but we are at 8/8. Does that mean we would have to abandon an existing route to pursue the new one? Even the overland ones?
So I could be wrong here, but actually I believe we are at 9/10 currently, if you look at the "Trade" tab of the cool little widget that @Cetashwayo made to track everything. This seems consistent given that we began the game with five trade routes and then chose the Demos Drakonia, which added four more maritime trade routes, leading to a total of nine.
As far as overland trade routes go, I also heavily suspect they don't count against the cap, given that the capacity of the city itself is not really a sensible limitation there, more the difficulties of trading overland or with the barbarian interior. Trade route capacity, I suspect, is more a measure of our logistical capacity and warehousing for maritime trade, which is how a majority of long-distance trade was conducted in the period, especially for the Greeks.
Van Ropen
Angry, angry about elves.
>guy in charge of temples wants bigger temples
Well shit son, I could have predicted that without huffing burnt ostrich feather
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Mnemnon Keylonos (Demos Exoria)
75% Certain
25% horse thief
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Edited the stats to clarify. Should now say "9/10 trade routes" for Maritime Trade Capacity. You don't have limits on overland trade capacity beyond the fundamental fact that overland trade is much more expensive than maritime trade and the ancient Greeks especially used maritime trade far more.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Well shit son, I could have predicted that without huffing burnt ostrich feather
"the augurs say the gods are displeased that my salary is not double what it is now"
SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
Yeah, I don't think we have to worry overly much about allying with outside powers considering that Sparta allied with Persia of all people to defeat Athens in the war which if I remember correctly led to the famous march of the ten-thousand mercenaries. Though admittedly that seems to have been a costly and somewhat embarrassing treaty for Sparta and despite what 300's might have taught you Persian/Greek relations weren't always that bad either.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Indeed. The Greeks may have disliked the Persians, and the Persians seen them as somewhere between useful and absolutely infuriating, but both had uses for the other and diplomatic relations of all kinds, often switching between hostile and non-hostile as the situation required.
- Location
- Luton Airport
Being able to shepherd the Messapii into our orbit, even in the allied position Gnatia once occupied, would immeasurably strengthen our strategic foundation, mitigating a lot of the threat from Taras in the South, cementing our hegemony of the coast down to the heel of Italia, and permitting us to hopefully focus on the North - the Dauni, the Illyrians, and the sea - in coming years,with less concern at covering our backs.
@Cetashwayo, does Eretria still maintain the festival where the Peuketti King brings over a load of sheep as a mark of respect and we all get shitfaced and eat kebabs?
@Cetashwayo, does Eretria still maintain the festival where the Peuketti King brings over a load of sheep as a mark of respect and we all get shitfaced and eat kebabs?
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- Location
- Europe
[X] Proboulos: Kyros Gennadios (Demos Antipatria)
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
While I would much like to support the Drakonian candidate for Probulos as I have done in the past, the temple renovation has been too long coming and dealing with the Metic agitation before it turns into riots will be beneficial for the stability of our great city. In these times of war, we cannot afford to anger the gods by ignoring the clear augurs that have been bestowed upon us.
However, it is not merely the problems of the spiritual and those within our city that we face. I believe in the importance of beating down the pirates currently menacing our fledgling trading empire in the Adriatic before it grows greater. Pirates have a habit of multiplying if you leave them alone for too long. Some might worry about the mission to the Enetoi but I believe it will yield great profits. Barbarians like the Enetoi will appreciate a blunt and honest man that values deeds over words than a silver-tongued man who seeks to rob them of their wealth.
So says Nereus the Captain, son of Miltiades.
[X] Xenoparakletor: Athenagoras Symmachos (Demos Drakonia)
While I would much like to support the Drakonian candidate for Probulos as I have done in the past, the temple renovation has been too long coming and dealing with the Metic agitation before it turns into riots will be beneficial for the stability of our great city. In these times of war, we cannot afford to anger the gods by ignoring the clear augurs that have been bestowed upon us.
However, it is not merely the problems of the spiritual and those within our city that we face. I believe in the importance of beating down the pirates currently menacing our fledgling trading empire in the Adriatic before it grows greater. Pirates have a habit of multiplying if you leave them alone for too long. Some might worry about the mission to the Enetoi but I believe it will yield great profits. Barbarians like the Enetoi will appreciate a blunt and honest man that values deeds over words than a silver-tongued man who seeks to rob them of their wealth.
So says Nereus the Captain, son of Miltiades.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
You betya. Generally occurs during the yearly tribute delivery.
Droman
𐤊𐤍𐤏𐤍
Hence my confusion regarding the Greek antipathy for an alliance with Carthage. It wasn't exactly uncommon for Greeks to serve as mercenaries in Carthaginian armies. What care does an Athens or Sparta have for the rival of their western cousins?
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
I mentioned western Greeks specifically.
Droman
𐤊𐤍𐤏𐤍
I definitely glazed over 'western', then. Would have voted for Carthage, otherwise.